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Thread: My View DIN is not just DIN
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04-04-2021, 10:01 PM #26
Nope! Ain't it fun?
I think at that point the variables become essentially infinite, between amount of deflection, initial/resting camber/rocker, stiffness of ski/boot, length of lever/leg, etc. etc. etc. All that testing and calibrating does is determine whether all the parts can move like they should with a specific amount of force in a controlled environment.
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04-04-2021, 10:05 PM #27
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04-04-2021, 10:19 PM #28
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04-04-2021, 10:47 PM #29
I believe section 3.7 of ISO 9462 requires the ski to be flexed by a controlled amount and the binding to still release within a specified range (I think plus or minus 20%), but I can't find a free copy of ISO 9462 and I'm not about to pay ISO $175 USD to find out.
From the ISO abstract: "3.7
deflection of the ski
deflection of the ski perpendicular to its gliding surface
Note 1 to entry: In practice, the deflection of the ski depends at the same time on the loading situation and the profile of the snow-surface (“geometrical” situation). In test simplification, only the “geometrical” situation is simulated."
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04-05-2021, 08:08 AM #30
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04-05-2021, 09:47 AM #31
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04-05-2021, 10:25 AM #32
Interesting.
I guess I don't really have any way to translate that to real world experiences since I don't have a great concept of how much skis actually flex underfoot, and I have even less of a concept of how much that flex actually impacts the bindings. But it does seem like a large percentage of binding releases are happening while the ski is heavily flexed.
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04-05-2021, 10:42 AM #33
This is like the resurrection of EpicSki
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04-05-2021, 10:47 AM #34Registered User
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Actualy DIN is just DIN or it wouldn't be DIN
The Op's point that they all work & feel different is probably valid
but entirely besides the pointLee Lau - xxx-er is the laziest Asian canuck I know
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04-05-2021, 10:48 AM #35
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04-05-2021, 11:15 AM #36
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04-05-2021, 11:17 AM #37
What DIN is Velcro?
. . .
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04-05-2021, 11:27 AM #38
DIN-3415 I believe.
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04-05-2021, 12:23 PM #39
The purpose for the requirement for an alpine binding to have a forward pressure feature (ie a 'floating' heel with a stated minimum travel) to achieve DIN certification is exactly for this reason as it ensures as best as practically possible that the bindings release values remain consistent thoughout the flex range of the ski.
Many of the latest tech bindings now also have floating heels to also give the same benefit as well as mitigating against the boot punching forward out of the toe pins etc.
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04-05-2021, 12:27 PM #40
I could make a Vermont test any number I wanted back in the day
Sent from my iPhone using TGR ForumsI rip the groomed on tele gear
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04-05-2021, 12:37 PM #41
Yeah, I get the basic purpose of forward pressure. But it seems like there's a massive difference among bindings as to how that forward pressure actually works. On one hand you have a Pivot where the heel piece can float up and down in the vertical plane, which presumably would have some impact on how the binding functions when the ski is flexed. On the other hand you have the royal family of bindings from Marker, which don't have any vertical movement and which I find to feel much "tighter" than most bindings when forward pressure is properly set. You can get both of those bindings to test within spec on the bench, but I wonder what the real world release values are when you're getting ejected out the front after landing in a bomb hole.
Mostly my point is that it seems like there is a wide variation in how bindings approach the issue of release values while bindings are flexed, and that might explain some of the reason that certain bindings have been more consistently popular over the years.
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04-05-2021, 12:47 PM #42
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04-05-2021, 12:51 PM #43
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04-05-2021, 02:09 PM #44Registered User
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04-05-2021, 02:18 PM #45Registered User
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yeah, except there is no way to know what "initial compression" means. Not even with on a test machine unless you had x-ray vision.
In practicality, there in only one number on the binding that a skier can relate to. I know my binding settings based on my own experience. I also know from experience that the these aren't precise binding to binding. So I don't really know if my bindings are consistent.
Anyone who doesn't know his perferred DIN is using a generic chart for all makes and models. Back to my initial point that DIN is DIN - most people would take that to mean "release" and it's not. But it's the only number available!
So if you have to use your own heuristics to translate DIN into your own setting, and you would set different makes models differently, then DIN can't really be DIN unless we play a razor thin game of semantics. No one cares when the spring is initially compressed.
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04-05-2021, 03:07 PM #46
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04-05-2021, 03:15 PM #47
This threads hurts my eyes...
Gravity. It's the law.
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04-05-2021, 07:46 PM #48Merde De Glace On the Freak When Ski
>>>200 cm Black Bamboo Sidewalled DPS Lotus 120 : Best Skis Ever <<<
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04-09-2021, 10:41 AM #49Registered User
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I agree that the plastic Rossi toes release in a strange manor - once the boot transitions onto the toe's rollers, most of the retention is lost. However, this does give you time to slam your boot back straight while still skiing.
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