Fatherhood anonymous; an open discussion on being a dad.

[SkiLyft]

100% — being a dad is HARD and this forum is perfect for airing that out!


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[yeahman]

I'm calling bs on that. It's human nature, male or female, for two individuals to duke it out to claim alpha. Girls have a reputation for being tough teenagers but they go through puberty years earlier than boys, and they even go through puberty earlier today than girls 40 years ago.

If you want to be ridiculously literal in your interpretation of my post, then of course they had a few disagreements when they were very young, I'm sure. But that's not anything like the "constant bickering" that OP has described. I'm happy to admit we probably lucked out in that regard. The point of my post since you apparently missed it is that girl siblings have no more propensity to fight with each other than boy siblings. If you can show me research to the contrary I'd be interested to see it.

[schuss]

If you want to be ridiculously literal in your interpretation of my post, then of course they had a few disagreements when they were very young, I'm sure. But that's not anything like the "constant bickering" that OP has described. I'm happy to admit we probably lucked out in that regard. The point of my post since you apparently missed it is that girl siblings have no more propensity to fight with each other than boy siblings. If you can show me research to the contrary I'd be interested to see it.

I'd say amount of bickering has gone down as we've helped them understand how to navigate peaceful conflict resolution and made it clear the screaming or violent kinds means you absolutely don't get what you want.

[riser4]

This thread has been...therapeutic. I guess. Was gonna use an alias but fuck it. Many of the names here are like old friends. Not really, but the usernames are comforting. if anything this post will reveal the depths of bio-smear's uselessness as I bring the mood down to the shitter.

Fatherhood for me has been rough. To the point that I wish I hadn't done it. Just having that feeling makes me feel like shit. I used to be this effective person professionally who was embarking on a second exciting career, I had hobbies I enjoyed, and I think I was a better husband. I'm not a bad dad and I try but the whole experience has fucked my brain. Like early onset dementia "fucked." Initially the sleep deprivation was the kids but now it's all on me as I stay up really late to take advantage of a quiet house, then get 5 hours sleep a night.

So 7.5 years on, with 2 of them and we are exhausted constantly. Can't think. Can't perform. I dive into micro-hobbies like building electronics kits and raging on my synthesizers as an escape, a way to cope somehow and try to exercise my brain so it doesn't become complete mush. I am self aware enough to realize I am very depressed and try to reason my way out of it by looking forward to a time when I won't be sidelined but little has changed even though much has changed in the situation. We moved 1800 miles and packed the whole show into a smaller house which didn't help. I'm almost 50 and there's more runway behind than ahead.

The magic of kids growing up and learning and being awed by the world is not lost on me. It is a wonderful thing and I am happy to impart upon them my knowledge and experience in life. And it would work a lot better if they could fucking stop fighting for 5 minutes to chill the fuck out and pay attention (sisters, 7 & 5.)

There are people out there who are so fucking excited about being parents and they make me want to puke. Youtubers raising kids and homeschooling and <violent vomiting> acting all happy and shit about it. My bitterness knows no bounds and I hate that about myself. I could use some Xanax or some shit but I'd lose my pilot medical for an indefinite amount of time and this would all get worse. This rant could easily be 10X this long with a lot of info that would make it all make more sense, and even make it seem like a more wholesome existential crisis but I think this has been cathartic enough.

Anyway, cute kids everybody and stoked to see them sending it! Here are my insufferable little shits:

May favorite was "take your feet off your brother's head." That's not something I ever imagined having to say. And yet I probably said it a thousand times.

[Core Shot]

If you want to be ridiculously literal in your interpretation of my post, then of course they had a few disagreements when they were very young, I'm sure. But that's not anything like the "constant bickering" that OP has described. I'm happy to admit we probably lucked out in that regard. The point of my post since you apparently missed it is that girl siblings have no more propensity to fight with each other than boy siblings. If you can show me research to the contrary I'd be interested to see it.

Girls bicker

I encourage my boys to violence.

This is the way.

Fuck bickering.

[muted reborn]

I think we should be more honest with the fact that we aren't all born the best dads in the world. We all hide our shit. And that doesn't make us horrible people. Some of us just aren't cut out to be moms and dads and having kids is a brutal way to find this out. It's been a long slow road for me as a dad but I'm happy to say I'm enjoying it more and more, even if it doesn't come naturally to me. I never hated it though, I just was like WTF is up with these irrational emotional little animals, ha, I don't know what to do.

One of the worst traits I have with dealing with a kid issue (in vague terms don't pick this apart): I am (most times not always) a very supportive, kind understanding parent the first 3-4 times when explaining to a kid why their behavior is wrong or consoling them when they are feeling down and what they need to do to make things better after getting into an argument. And I can listen, too, honestly. it's around the 5th time I have to explain again the same points because they think they know better - is when I lose all patience and i'm like 'Ok you don't believe me, why don't you figure it out yourself'. Not in those words - but to them I clearly lose my patience and then things really go to shit. Not asking for help here, ha, i know what i SHOULD do, I'm only human goddamnit. And they are so young I need to do better, fack.

[MarcusBrody]

I just was like WTF is up with these irrational emotional little animals, ha, I don't know what to do.

I feel like treating small children as irrational, emotional, little animals can actually be healthy if you do it in the right way. You don't expect your pet to exhibit that great judgment, so you take it upon yourself to fix things so their bad judgment doesn't become an issue. If you're dog is going crazy barking at a squirrel or something, you don't feel like a failure as a dog owner nor do you feel like terrible when it looks unhappy that you won't let it eat whatever it wants. I found it healthy to deal with my tantrum throwing toddler like he was an irrational, mid-sized animal. It really took away some of the emotional resonance that can get you. I obviously tried to minimize situations that would bring it up, but it helped me not get too affected emotionally. And like with animals, consistency is key to avoiding some of those problems in the first place, but when they're young, they're going to be a little crazy.

[phatty]

I love seeing this honest discussion on the difficulties of being a dad. Thanks for getting it started Bio! My kids have moved past the physically difficult years (newborn - 8yrs) and are all teenagers or older. I have 5 kids 13ys - 22yrs so have seen and felt all the emotions here. The years go by fast. It does get better. You (eventually) end up missing it. I would give most anything to have a week back when my kids were younger, but no more than 1 week!

There's lots of things I wished I did differently, but I'm fortunate to have great relationships with all my kids. One suggestion I would say is that you should focus on your wife way more than your kids. You want "you" time? Make sure your wife has her time first. You want kids that listen to you? Make sure you listen to your wife. Your kids are watching and learn more from watching you than by listening to you.

I'm fortunate to have a wife that's stayed home with the kids and wanted to. I know it doesn't work for every family, but it made a huge difference for our kids. I also love having more kids. That way they rely on each other more and less on me and my wife. My older boys are great friends and call each other all the time while they are at college. Heck, I think they talk to each other more often than they talk to me.

Kids are hard, there's no way around it. If someone looks like they are doing it perfect, you are only seeing what they want you to see. Everyone struggles in their own way.

[oldnew_guy]

I feel like treating small children as irrational, emotional, little animals can actually be healthy if you do it in the right way. You don't expect your pet to exhibit that great judgment, so you take it upon yourself to fix things so their bad judgment doesn't become an issue. If you're dog is going crazy barking at a squirrel or something, you don't feel like a failure as a dog owner nor do you feel like terrible when it looks unhappy that you won't let it eat whatever it wants. I found it healthy to deal with my tantrum throwing toddler like he was an irrational, mid-sized animal. It really took away some of the emotional resonance that can get you. I obviously tried to minimize situations that would bring it up, but it helped me not get too affected emotionally. And like with animals, consistency is key to avoiding some of those problems in the first place, but when they're young, they're going to be a little crazy.

As it was explained to me, toddlers brains are not developed enough to handle much in the way of emotions, so yea, they in fact are irrational little animals. Helped me a ton once I understood that there was no amount of explaining or hand holding that was going to “fix” it.

Seems to last until they are around 4 IME.

Recommend “How to talk so your kids will listen and how to listen so your kids will talk” to the group. In your spare time of course

[schuss]

I will say, I deeply miss the days when any situation could be defused with distraction, made it so much easier

[lake_effect]

it's around the 5th time I have to explain again the same points because they think they know better - is when I lose all patience and i'm like 'Ok you don't believe me, why don't you figure it out yourself'. Not in those words - but to them I clearly lose my patience and then things really go to shit. Not asking for help here, ha, i know what i SHOULD do, I'm only human goddamnit. And they are so young I need to do better, fack.

This is me or my wife at least twice a week. You can only ask them to pick up the their 4,000 legos, put away their laundry, etc. so many times (usually at least 5) before you want to yell just pick up your fucking shit! Parenting is hard, a lot of times it downright fucking sucks, but the good times make it worth it and as they get older those times are more and more often .

Bio I can relate, mine (8m, 6f) can really pick at each other and fight a lot. Drives me and my wife nuts and usually what starts our full family meltdowns. We don't shield our kids from the fact that mom and dad disagree and fight. But they also know mom and dad aren't going anywhere either. Let me know if you wanna talk, I've felt and still feel a lot of the same shit.

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[The Reverend Floater]

You're not alone. Parenthood is often like home ownership...a widespread cultural conspiracy hellbent on breaking your soul.

I mean, I've talked to a therapist about our 3 year old, if that makes you feel better. 80% of the time, she is a WORLD CLASS ASSHOLE and will have you broken in hours.

Depsite my kid vid posted above, I have very mixed feelings about being a dad.... fortunately, so does my wife. We talk openly about it being a mistake from time to time. There are tremendous joys that cannot be matched. But the day to day can be very difficult for most honest humans. Those who tell you otherwise are either liars, heavily medicated or utterly devoid of their own passions.

Me? I'm selfish and am perfectly happy spending time doing shit that I love to do. I'm an introvert at my core and am most at peace by myself, deep in the hills. That doesn't happen much anymore, and I definitely suffer for it upstairs.

Hang in there and try to take better care of yourself by making time for yourself. Because if we're being honest, you don't really have a choice.

[muted reborn]

This is me or my wife at least twice a week. You can only ask them to pick up the their 4,000 legos, put away their laundry, etc. so many times (usually at least 5) before you want to yell just pick up your fucking shit!

For me it's them putting on shoes and jacket - good god, every fucking day its the hardest thing for them to do, it drives me insane.

"Hey guys, 5 minutes and we are leaving - we are gonna put on sock, shoes and jackets, OK?"

"OK, one more minute, then we are leaving..."

"All right! Time to grab shoes, socks, and jackets everyone."

"hey! Focus please, shoes are this way...."

"Seriously - SOCKS SHOES JACKET."

"Alright motherfuckers, time to die."

[yeahman]

One of ours was slow to get ready so one day I left without her. Drove around for 15 minutes and returned. She was standing there in the driveway shocked that she had been left behind. After that she was much better about getting ready.

Same kid, years later as a teen, had a hard time getting home by curfew. Went from 10 minutes late to 15 to 20... One night I locked the doors and turned out the lights. When she got home I let her pound on the door for 10 minutes before letting her in. Again, shocked. Never dreamed we would actually lock her out. She was much better about making curfew after that.

[oldnew_guy]

Wow. The last three posts are my life to a T.

[Mazderati]

[bio-smear]

You're not alone. Parenthood is often like home ownership...a widespread cultural conspiracy hellbent on breaking your soul.

I mean, I've talked to a therapist about our 3 year old, if that makes you feel better. 80% of the time, she is a WORLD CLASS ASSHOLE and will have you broken in hours.

Depsite my kid vid posted above, I have very mixed feelings about being a dad.... fortunately, so does my wife. We talk openly about it being a mistake from time to time. There are tremendous joys that cannot be matched. But the day to day can be very difficult for most honest humans. Those who tell you otherwise are either liars, heavily medicated or utterly devoid of their own passions.

Me? I'm selfish and am perfectly happy spending time doing shit that I love to do. I'm an introvert at my core and am most at peace by myself, deep in the hills. That doesn't happen much anymore, and I definitely suffer for it upstairs.

Hang in there and try to take better care of yourself by making time for yourself. Because if we're being honest, you don't really have a choice.

Man, this really resonated and is 100% my experience. We had kids because it seemed like the thing you do when you're married for a few years and have a stable home and income. I've since come to the conclusion that having kids is what people who WANT TO HAVE KIDS AS A HOBBY do, because it is an impediment to excelling in all other walks of life outside of personal growth at high cost. I have other talents and endeavors and this fatherhood thing is cutting in them. What a selfish, self-centered thing to say, right? Over time my thinking has warped into the preordained biological caretaker and guide I must be but I have scraped and clawed against it. Now, I love and like my kids and enjoy them but the inner conflict rages.

Also, is anyone else getting these lymphoma/leukemia ads on the right sidebar with the baby with the tubes and shit coming out of him as he looks at the camera? That shit now makes me weep. Sometimes I will suffer a quick snort like a man does when he might start sobbing but doesn't, when I have certain thoughts about my kids. Parental love is like this symbiont cancer/mycelium parasite that controls your nervous system and hypothalamus, but could also just erupt from your chest like the xenomorph at times.

"Alright motherfuckers, time to die."

I audibly laughed and had to read this to my wife. You had her until the last line, which was my fave.

Can't tell you guys how much this thread has meant to me in the last 24 hours.

[Boissal]

Been reading this thread consistently for a while as a kid is about to drop into my life in a few short months. Gotta say these last couple pages scared the shit out of me and reassured me at the same time. Things looked a bit too picture perfect til now but I finally get to see the other side of the coin. Been seeing it in real life with a couple friends but this thread had me wondering if they were just a bunch of degens struggling with their kiddos. Turns out it's hard as shit for everyone. Got it. Still gripped.

[schuss]

You're not alone. Parenthood is often like home ownership...a widespread cultural conspiracy hellbent on breaking your soul.

I mean, I've talked to a therapist about our 3 year old, if that makes you feel better. 80% of the time, she is a WORLD CLASS ASSHOLE and will have you broken in hours.

Depsite my kid vid posted above, I have very mixed feelings about being a dad.... fortunately, so does my wife. We talk openly about it being a mistake from time to time. There are tremendous joys that cannot be matched. But the day to day can be very difficult for most honest humans. Those who tell you otherwise are either liars, heavily medicated or utterly devoid of their own passions.

Me? I'm selfish and am perfectly happy spending time doing shit that I love to do. I'm an introvert at my core and am most at peace by myself, deep in the hills. That doesn't happen much anymore, and I definitely suffer for it upstairs.

Hang in there and try to take better care of yourself by making time for yourself. Because if we're being honest, you don't really have a choice.

Three is honestly the fucking worst. They're old enough to figure out what they want, have the skills to often try to obtain it (or mess things up on the way), but not enough cognitive or emotional maturity to understand why they can't have it all the time.

Our kids have occasionally outstubborned us (there was a 3 week stretch where our youngest did not tidy up her room and thus got zero screen time - she has the will of tungsten steel when she really wants to) - I think the key is don't make promises you aren't prepared to keep in both ways. We have thrown some of our kids toys in the garbage after a week+ of no cleaning (not their favorites, but they don't have to know that). I have also spent a bunch of extra time doing stuff with my son because I forgot I was going to play minecraft with my son one night and we ran out of time.

I'm quite sure trying to get boots and coats on a pack of children is one of the circles of hell.

[bio-smear]

A final thought, and this one could get ugly.

Dudes, before you make that fateful creampie that will change your life forever, conduct an honest audit of your mate. Silently, of course.

Does she do most stuff without asking your opinion first?
Does she cook meals on her own? Can she vs does she?
Does she have some measure of autonomy or hobbies that are her own?
Is she a good/safe driver?

You could make this list as long as you need. See the "Jesus Hercules Christ I Love My Wife and All" thread.

It's an assessment that needs to be made. I see my buddy's life and it's a little different. His wife is a super mom and LOVES it.

[phatty]

Three is honestly the fucking worst. They're old enough to figure out what they want, have the skills to often try to obtain it (or mess things up on the way), but not enough cognitive or emotional maturity to understand why they can't have it all the time.

Yeah, I've never figured out how Two got the reputation as "terrible". Three is the absolute worst.

One thing that kids do better than anything else is strip everything down to the key fact: Life is not about you! As men, that's really difficult for us to deal with. We're selfish by nature in ways that most women aren't. Kids force you to get over yourself. The longer it takes you, the more miserable you will be. If you never do, man that has to suck.

I spent many years getting out at 6am (or earlier) to get in the golf, mountain biking, trail running that I felt I needed without cutting into family time too much. That helped a lot. I used to get pissed at powder days and great sunset rides I missed because of kid stuff. Eventually I got to where I was stoked for friends who got out. Made my life so much better.

Getting over selfishness doesn't mean you never get to do what you want. It may mean that it doesn't look exactly like you thought/want it to, but you can make it work. Definitely need to communicate and work it out with your spouse/partner.

I still get sucked into myself plenty. It's a constant battle fighting off my selfish nature. Whenever I start feeling like crap, I can always trace it back to my selfishness. Then I focus on getting back out of it.

[The Reverend Floater]

Three is honestly the fucking worst. They're old enough to figure out what they want, have the skills to often try to obtain it (or mess things up on the way), but not enough cognitive or emotional maturity to understand why they can't have it all the time.

Our kids have occasionally outstubborned us (there was a 3 week stretch where our youngest did not tidy up her room and thus got zero screen time - she has the will of tungsten steel when she really wants to) - I think the key is don't make promises you aren't prepared to keep in both ways. We have thrown some of our kids toys in the garbage after a week+ of no cleaning (not their favorites, but they don't have to know that). I have also spent a bunch of extra time doing stuff with my son because I forgot I was going to play minecraft with my son one night and we ran out of time.

I'm quite sure trying to get boots and coats on a pack of children is one of the circles of hell.

You nailed it. Our youngest will not only hold out at any cost, she will literally laugh at your attempts to shape her behavior. She's like a maniacal porcupine with no concept of fucks given.

That said-and not to bring any sunshine into this thread-she can be the sweetest kid on the planet and is also so athletically gifted that I'm spending her college fund as we speak. So there's that.

[funkendrenchman]

Three is honestly the fucking worst. They're old enough to figure out what they want, have the skills to often try to obtain it (or mess things up on the way), but not enough cognitive or emotional maturity to understand why they can't have it all the time.

Our kids have occasionally outstubborned us (there was a 3 week stretch where our youngest did not tidy up her room and thus got zero screen time - she has the will of tungsten steel when she really wants to) - I think the key is don't make promises you aren't prepared to keep in both ways. We have thrown some of our kids toys in the garbage after a week+ of no cleaning (not their favorites, but they don't have to know that). I have also spent a bunch of extra time doing stuff with my son because I forgot I was going to play minecraft with my son one night and we ran out of time.

I'm quite sure trying to get boots and coats on a pack of children is one of the circles of hell.

Currently have a 6 and 3.5 yo.

I’ll take a 3 year old over a baby any day. They likely sleep pretty well, feed themselves, use the toilet themselves (besides wiping), talk, make jokes, walk most places, and so many other cool things. Babies sleep like crap, need a million naps, destroy mom’s boobs, cry a lot, need to be carried everywhere, have disgusting diapers……..

I love the last couple pages here. It hits on many critical aspects of parenthood.

[The Reverend Floater]

Currently have a 6 and 3.5 yo.

I’ll take a 3 year old over a baby any day. They likely sleep pretty well, feed themselves, use the toilet themselves (besides wiping), talk, make jokes, walk most places, and so many other cool things. Babies sleep like crap, need a million naps, destroy mom’s boobs, cry a lot, need to be carried everywhere, have disgusting diapers……..

You forgot about blowing out the varsh, to begin with.

[riser4]

Currently have a 6 and 3.5 yo.

I’ll take a 3 year old over a baby any day. They likely sleep pretty well, feed themselves, use the toilet themselves (besides wiping), talk, make jokes, walk most places, and so many other cool things. Babies sleep like crap, need a million naps, destroy mom’s boobs, cry a lot, need to be carried everywhere, have disgusting diapers……..

I love the last couple pages here. It hits on many critical aspects of parenthood.

Born to shit. Forced to wipe.