Fatherhood anonymous; an open discussion on being a dad.

**TahoeJ** · 03-26-2022, 10:52 AM

Becoming a parent has become such a financial burden in this country. And Boomers with 2 or 3 homes making the cost of living for younger generations so expensive don't seem to understand why birth rates are now at an all time low. Duh.

**phatty** · 03-26-2022, 12:04 PM

Our rule was always 1 sport per season max. Once a sport got serious enough that travel was involved, it usually got shut down. I got too many kids to spend all our time traveling for one of them. Also, no sport interferes with family skiing. That's why my kids all suck at basketball but are great skiers.

**Danno** · 03-26-2022, 12:10 PM

What if the sport that interferes with family skiing is skiing?

**phatty** · 03-26-2022, 12:45 PM

Originally Posted by Danno

What if the sport that interferes with family skiing is skiing?

Haha. Now that's a conundrum. Probably why I never put my kids in a race or freeride program. I'd way rather they compete with me to be the first one down than compete with others.

**detrusor** · 03-26-2022, 07:00 PM

I’ve been super lucky to get to jump on the back of the kids race groups at snowbird when they free ski. One coach told me they are sometimes skeptical because they scare the parents. Been more than a few one and dined…..

Sent from my iPhone using TGR Forums

**The SnowShow** · 03-26-2022, 07:12 PM

Originally Posted by Danno

Not to mention the expense! Have just one kid, and generally do two things, skiing and soccer. It's all I can afford, for one, but I can't do the constant shuttling to activities either. And can't afford to pay someone to do it. Can't really afford the skiing either, but she really wants to do it and it's skiing, so I accept the financial sacrifice.

I feel bad, there's lots of stuff my kiddo would like to do that I have to shut down.

Yes, agree!!

One sport for us and nothing during mid-Dec to end of March to get in the way of family skiing. She still gets fall and spring soccer and bball from mid-Oct to mid-Dec, before skiing really gets going.

My friend with 2 kids, who each do 3 sports per season, was acting like I’m selfish for making her do family skiing instead of more team sports but I couldn’t disagree more. We obviously spend way way more quality time with her vs if we were driving her all over if she did bball, gymnastics, and indoor soccer (or whatever) all winter. Or God forbid hockey…my friend has two boys playing hockey and ice time is so hard to get, they have to play games at like 7am on a Sat.

**TahoeJ** · 03-26-2022, 07:17 PM

If it makes anyone feel better about the pricing of kid ski teams and what have you, don’t get me started on my daughter’s club level volleyball. Thank god she’s “only” on the second team that stays somewhat regional, the national teams are brutal for travel costs alone. But she’s really good and I can’t say no to that. Damn growth spurt (5 inches in one year) killed me, as she’s now projecting to be tall enough for a back line player. Hoping this pays off in college scholarships.

**phatty** · 03-26-2022, 07:35 PM

Originally Posted by TahoeJ

If it makes anyone feel better about the pricing of kid ski teams and what have you, don’t get me started on my daughter’s club level volleyball. Thank god she’s “only” on the second team that stays somewhat regional, the national teams are brutal for travel costs alone. But she’s really good and I can’t say no to that. Damn growth spurt (5 inches in one year) killed me, as she’s now projecting to be tall enough for a back line player. Hoping this pays off in college scholarships.

My niece is graduating this year from HS and did club volleyball traveling all over the US. She was one of the better players on the team and got a a "preferred walk on" spot for a D1 team and is hoping to get moved to scholarship in a couple years. It's a state school and would cost ~$10k per year. My sister was paying well over $10k per year for the past 4 years of volleyball. Definitely won't pencil out financially, but my niece loved it and it is a core part of her identity. I watched from afar and was thinking "hell no!" for my family. That's one of the great things about parenting, there's no right way.

I hope your daughter gets that scholarship, but if not, hopefully she loves her time playing VB with her friends.

**TahoeJ** · 03-26-2022, 08:20 PM

^^ Oh of course, I don’t really care about the scholarships but it would be nice. 2 of her best friends are on the same team and I’m close friends with their parents (we knew each other before the kids were born) so no regrets either way. It does make the travel more fun when you’re that close with some of the other parents - we always turn it into a bit of a party and I think the girls get annoyed. Heh.

**schuss** · 03-26-2022, 08:23 PM

Originally Posted by skiJ

an interesting and a challenging dilemma, fellas -

I would offer,
( please) don't underestimate the importance of the early childhood years -
at the point at which a child ( baby) is awake and interactive ( beyond eating and sleeping ), ... at the point at which a toddler is awake and interactive, they are Always learning -

waiting until a child is older, they will already have adopted a whole series of behaviors.

my encouragement is be as involved as you practically can, as early as you possibly can(,) after your child is beyond the (sleeping and eating) stage.
Those lessons become the foundation for a child's development.

interesting to read the idea of being More-present for teenagers -
I probably don't understand --
( I have known many teens and pre-teens that needed to begin to experience independence.
at the same time, the great parents I have known have had important roles in there kids activities ( 'music parents, club sport parents, that make sure their kids always get to Practice and performances or games.
Some of these parents are visible - many are less-visible and every bit as vital ).

a final thought -
the most successful parents I have seen in many years, treat their kids like people - patiently explaining Why things need to be the way they need to be ;
those kids are ,,, never (belittled) as just-children ;
in my experience, children raised this way often develop an early maturity
( there are probably also other genetic factors ).

Good luck !
being a parent is your most important job !

respectfully. skiJ

Best quote I ever heard was: You're not raising kids. You're raising adults.

**skiJ** · 03-26-2022, 09:00 PM

Originally Posted by schuss

Best quote I ever heard was: You're not raising kids. You're raising adults.

That's a good quote -

Thank you. skiJ

**Dromond** · 03-27-2022, 06:41 AM

My partner and I both had parental leave time off of work with our newborn, and we just used some of that time to go on an 18 day trip to Portugal with our four month old. While it had its own challenges, overall it was really fun, and the memories are priceless. We were doing euro tourist stuff, which fits pretty well with having the baby in a carrier. They are the most lightweight, they are ever going to be, right? A few parents had told us that traveling with a small baby was so much easier than with a toddler, so we jumped at that opportunity. I recommend it if you have the ability.

Also, I’ll give a plug for Portugal, because they are so family friendly there. You get priority in lines at airports, grocery stores and other places with a baby. The people just love babies there and that added a lot of joy to the trip. People would stop in the street or lean out their windows to admire ours and wish us well.

**406** · 03-28-2022, 12:44 PM

Originally Posted by Dromond

A few parents had told us that traveling with a small baby was so much easier than with a toddler,

Yeah, that was true for us, but did not know it at the time.

Originally Posted by Dromond

Also, I’ll give a plug for Portugal, because they are so family friendly there. You get priority in lines at airports, grocery stores and other places with a baby. The people just love babies there and that added a lot of joy to the trip.

It really is amazing how little perks like that help...and how generally unfriendly the US is. Don't get me started on TSA!

**Marshall Tucker** · 03-28-2022, 02:18 PM

Well Fuckety. MT#3 picked a crip major Political Science. Told him not to but MT#3 is that fuckin kid that never listens, has to learn his own way and knows everything. So he's maintained somewhere between 3.85-3.92, not exactly sure where within that he is right now, so I didn't fuss much. He is supposed to graduate next month. Only.

The university fucked up with a whole lot, like hundreds, of students and incorrectly told them over xmas they had enough to graduate oh wait, no, sorry, we fucked up your 2 classes short. So MT#3 has decided, and I quote, "a piece of paper is not going to define me" and he is refusing to finish. So I've made clear that on May 1 your on your own. He has a beater car that he inherited from granma and I told him i'll put it in his name and I'll keep him on my health insurance for a bit (no cost) and from there we're done. And when you decide to finish those two classes I'll pay for them. He wants to persue his you tube channel and MMA.

**mcphee** · 03-28-2022, 02:37 PM

is 29 pages some kind of TRG record before off-topic bitching begins?

**markb** · 03-28-2022, 02:43 PM

One big advantage of au pairs over nannies is the stipend doesn't count as income, so there's no payroll tax to pay or tax paperwork. Big cost savings I didn't know about until we were deep into the au pair process. A recommendation if considering an au pair for young kids: communication is critical from parents to au pair and au pair to kids. So everyone trying to learn a new language (and culture, diet, theory of rearing) makes it much more difficult. First au pair was Mexican and unfortunately failed (had to rematch) from discomfort on her part communicating with the kids, but currently have one from the Netherlands who is fluent in English, on the same cultural wavelength, likes the snow and snowsports, doesn't turn the TV on for the kids, and is easy to hang out with. Night and day.

Also au pairs make it easier to slip out for a few hours, as opposed to scheduling (and paying) a nanny/sitter.

**Timberridge** · 03-28-2022, 02:45 PM

Originally Posted by mcphee

is 29 pages some kind of TRG record before off-topic bitching begins?

Should I get Benny?

**riser4** · 03-28-2022, 03:43 PM

Originally Posted by Marshall Tucker

Well Fuckety. MT#3 picked a crip major Political Science. Told him not to but MT#3 is that fuckin kid that never listens, has to learn his own way and knows everything. So he's maintained somewhere between 3.85-3.92, not exactly sure where within that he is right now, so I didn't fuss much. He is supposed to graduate next month. Only.

The university fucked up with a whole lot, like hundreds, of students and incorrectly told them over xmas they had enough to graduate oh wait, no, sorry, we fucked up your 2 classes short. So MT#3 has decided, and I quote, "a piece of paper is not going to define me" and he is refusing to finish. So I've made clear that on May 1 your on your own. He has a beater car that he inherited from granma and I told him i'll put it in his name and I'll keep him on my health insurance for a bit (no cost) and from there we're done. And when you decide to finish those two classes I'll pay for them. He wants to persue his you tube channel and MMA.

Oof.

**yeahman** · 03-28-2022, 07:08 PM

Originally Posted by Marshall Tucker

Well Fuckety. MT#3 picked a crip major Political Science. Told him not to but MT#3 is that fuckin kid that never listens, has to learn his own way and knows everything. So he's maintained somewhere between 3.85-3.92, not exactly sure where within that he is right now, so I didn't fuss much. He is supposed to graduate next month. Only.

The university fucked up with a whole lot, like hundreds, of students and incorrectly told them over xmas they had enough to graduate oh wait, no, sorry, we fucked up your 2 classes short. So MT#3 has decided, and I quote, "a piece of paper is not going to define me" and he is refusing to finish. So I've made clear that on May 1 your on your own. He has a beater car that he inherited from granma and I told him i'll put it in his name and I'll keep him on my health insurance for a bit (no cost) and from there we're done. And when you decide to finish those two classes I'll pay for them. He wants to persue his you tube channel and MMA.

Stick to your guns. I quit college four classes and an internship short of getting a degree, and spent the next 8 years living out of my van rock climbing. Eventually I went back when that life got old. But in the meantime I got zero dollars parental support, and it was good for me. (Had to buy my own health insurance too.)

**The Reverend Floater** · 03-28-2022, 07:18 PM

Just here to say I took my girls (2 & 6) to Mexico for Spring Bteak and it was one of the most fun trips I've ever had. They went wild on the beach, in the pool, etc. and it's just ridiculously fun to see how much stake can be had. Older one is bilingual (so far) so she had a great time meeting other kids. The 2 year old basically lived in the pool from day break to sunset. And I made sure to get some dad time fishing with friends but also took the older one out with a gear rod and she slayed.

Good times.

**zion zig zag** · 03-28-2022, 07:33 PM

Originally Posted by Marshall Tucker

Well Fuckety. MT#3 picked a crip major Political Science. Told him not to but MT#3 is that fuckin kid that never listens, has to learn his own way and knows everything. So he's maintained somewhere between 3.85-3.92, not exactly sure where within that he is right now, so I didn't fuss much. He is supposed to graduate next month. Only.

The university fucked up with a whole lot, like hundreds, of students and incorrectly told them over xmas they had enough to graduate oh wait, no, sorry, we fucked up your 2 classes short. So MT#3 has decided, and I quote, "a piece of paper is not going to define me" and he is refusing to finish. So I've made clear that on May 1 your on your own. He has a beater car that he inherited from granma and I told him i'll put it in his name and I'll keep him on my health insurance for a bit (no cost) and from there we're done. And when you decide to finish those two classes I'll pay for them. He wants to persue his you tube channel and MMA.

Stick to your guns or the pain continues for much longer for both of you. It’s not easy watching them struggle when you can provide support, but it’s the quickest path….

Good luck.

**ghosthop** · 03-28-2022, 08:09 PM

Before I start a thread in tech talk, does anyone have recommendations for various baby carrying devices and using them?

We plan to get hand-me-down stroller and car seat. However, I am hoping to make the most of my two years in Salt Lake where I will be the main caregiver for this baby. From cursory reading, it seems like super small babies go into wraps, once they can hold their head up they can go into carriers, and as they get older/heavier, they need to be in more structured carriers to distribute the weight. Any truth to this?

We are in the midst of registry hell and I would like to rebuy as few things as possible.

**oldnew_guy** · 03-28-2022, 08:31 PM

Originally Posted by ghosthop

Before I start a thread in tech talk, does anyone have recommendations for various baby carrying devices and using them?

We plan to get hand-me-down stroller and car seat. However, I am hoping to make the most of my two years in Salt Lake where I will be the main caregiver for this baby. From cursory reading, it seems like super small babies go into wraps, once they can hold their head up they can go into carriers, and as they get older/heavier, they need to be in more structured carriers to distribute the weight. Any truth to this?

We are in the midst of registry hell and I would like to rebuy as few things as possible.

Sounds about right.

We had a car seat with base in the car (key fit 30). That thing went everywhere with the kid in it. One of the few things I buy new is kid safety gear. YMMV.

We had a hand me down backpack carrier that worked fine. I honestly spend a lot of time on kid appropriate trails and just put them on my shoulders and carry in arms when they get tired for the last 1/2 mile.

Bob stroller gets a ton of use between running and hiking tame stuff.

Also ended up with a Burley bike trailer that converts to a stroller which has seen heavy use.

**oldnew_guy** · 03-28-2022, 09:22 PM

Coming back to this:

Ergobaby or babybjorn both worked well.

Also, there is a tendency to throw every gizmo at young kids and parents. There is a product for every “problem” and a whole industry built around selling you stuff. Like, do you need a kid specific diaper bag or can you just take your old or new pack and use it the same way and slowly convert it into something different as they get older?

At some point for me it became more a question of “how much time and effort is it going to take me to maintain this thing that “saves” me time?” Thus for us one stroller (Bob) with an adapter that held car seat that connected to base in the car. Kid never left the car seat to go to the grocery store.

Bought the stroller 2nd, maybe 3rd hand for $150. Looks new.

One the other hand, we didn’t have 15 bottles, 8 sippy cups and a plethora of other gizmos to track like friends and family. “Where is the lid to the sippy cup he likes?!” Nope, I think we have/had one for each kid.

TLDR: less is more. You already have one thing that needs a ton of your time.

**ghosthop** · 03-28-2022, 09:48 PM

^^I am on board with having minimal specific items for the baby. My grandmother, who has had a hand in raising more babies than anyone I know, laughed when I asked her what all to get. 'Clean white onesies, diapers, you'll figure out the rest.'

We are mostly using the shower(s!) for big ticket items that are baby adjacent. Air purifiers for SLC's stellar air quality. A good food mill. New city backpack that will be used primarily as a diaper bag. Things that we want and can justify using for the baby.

The bottle situation is something I haven't waded into yet. Momma will be working 80 hour weeks and pumping for as long as she can. Keeping things sterile and proper milk handling with be major reading for me this summer.