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  1. #501
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sutter View Post
    I just took my first BA supplement (3g in 12 oz water) and my body is buzzing.

    Is this what it is like every time? Bringing me back to my rave days…..
    The other day my wife walked downstairs and started rubbing her face with the vigor of a detoxing addict.
    I've been there before, so I said "Just took your BA, huh?"
    She was perplexed with how I knew.

  2. #502
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    Quote Originally Posted by XtrPickels View Post
    Your body can only handle a certain amount of intensity, regardless of the modality because many of the stresses are not local to the specific muscle but systemic.

    So, A smart triathlete will still limit their intensity despite trying to train multiple disciplines.

    A Smarter triathlete will target improvements by focusing on particular disciplines at specific times.

    Most triathletes will do too much of everything and end up worse off.
    Thanks! That's exactly the kind of answer I was looking for.

    Seth

    Sent from my SM-S908U using Tapatalk

  3. #503
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    I listened to Mr. Pickelsí electronic radio show about recovery and it was very good. I hate taking days off even though I know itís important but feel better about it after listening.

    Also I listened to the previous episode, whoís this Chris guy? Huge ordeals of rides starting at 2am sounds like my kind of guy.

  4. #504
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    Quote Originally Posted by bean View Post
    I listened to Mr. Pickels’ electronic radio show about recovery and it was very good. I hate taking days off even though I know it’s important but feel better about it after listening.

    Also I listened to the previous episode, who’s this Chris guy? Huge ordeals of rides starting at 2am sounds like my kind of guy.
    Nice, glad you liked it!

    You can watch the video from Ep 204 - Chris' Farewell - on the website:
    https://www.fasttalklabs.com/fast-ta...to-chris-case/

  5. #505
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    I have a recovery question. I've been hiking a short, steep trail (3 miles, 1700 ft of gain) nearly every day this year. I don't have any specific goals, I just needed a winter diversion from cycling, and have really been enjoying getting out and doing something different. Unless I'm limited on time, which isn't typical, I'm mostly taking it easy, but it's steep enough to be a decent effort even at a slow pace.

    From an overuse and overtraining perspective, more so than a performance perspective, what are the ramifications of continuing daily with very few rest days?
    Remind me. We'll send him a red cap and a Speedo.

  6. #506
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    Quote Originally Posted by bagtagley View Post
    From an overuse and overtraining perspective, more so than a performance perspective, what are the ramifications of continuing daily with very few rest days?
    Depends how easy "easy" is. What's your HR getting up to and averaging? How do you feel (in day to day life, not just while doing your hike)?
    "High risers are for people with fused ankles, jongs and dudes who are too fat to see their dick or touch their toes.
    Prove me wrong."
    -I've seen black diamonds!

    throughpolarizedeyes.com

  7. #507
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    Official Sprocket Rockets Training Thread

    Deleted

  8. #508
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    Quote Originally Posted by bean View Post
    Depends how easy "easy" is. What's your HR getting up to and averaging? How do you feel (in day to day life, not just while doing your hike)?
    I knew someone would ask that. I'm not sure. I'm assuming I'm going beyond Zone 2 on the steeper sections.

    I feel great. I'm not experiencing any of what would typically be signs of overtraining for me, on or off the trail. My only issue is my knees, which I've been able to stay on top of with stretching and rolling/massaging.
    Remind me. We'll send him a red cap and a Speedo.

  9. #509
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    Quote Originally Posted by bagtagley View Post
    I have a recovery question. I've been hiking a short, steep trail (3 miles, 1700 ft of gain) nearly every day this year. I don't have any specific goals, I just needed a winter diversion from cycling, and have really been enjoying getting out and doing something different. Unless I'm limited on time, which isn't typical, I'm mostly taking it easy, but it's steep enough to be a decent effort even at a slow pace.

    From an overuse and overtraining perspective, more so than a performance perspective, what are the ramifications of continuing daily with very few rest days?
    Physiologically, I wouldn't worry about it, especially if you're mostly taking it easy and it's become "The norm". It doesn't sound overly long or taxing.
    Your knees and hips might say otherwise.

  10. #510
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    Just needing a gut check here. When doing VO2 workouts I should be focusing my power on zone 5 and when I'm doing threshold I should be focusing on zone 4, is that correct?

    Sent from my SM-S908U using Tapatalk

  11. #511
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    Quote Originally Posted by bagtagley View Post
    Very interested in Pickleís thoughts on cramping.

    I know it goes against the research but I have zero doubt that electrolyte intake helps me. At a minimum, it reduces mental fatigue, but it also minimizes cramping for me. Iím not talking a pill here and there, but max recommended doses starting early in a long ride. If itís placebo Iíll take it cause I got tired of finishing rides with my legs locked up.
    I think we covered cramping earlier in the thread

    Basics
    Cramping has many different etiologies.
    1. Electrolyte imbalance: This tends to cause cramps in all areas, including those that aren't working too hard. You can deal with these through supplements.

    2. Localized Fatigue / Damage: Overworking a muscle that is not able to sustain a workload can lead to cramping by damaging organelles within the muscle: Including but maybe not limited to calcium leaking from the sarcoplastmic reticulum. These cramps happen in very specific muscles that are being overworked (e.g. Isolated to your quads). You can't really deal with this in the moment, besides reducing workload, but that's why we train.

    3. Altered Neuromuscular control: This one is not entirely well understood but the basics are that the feedback loops within our muscles and nervous system kinda go hay-wire.
    - As a protective mechanism, We have sensors (Muscle Spindles) that lead to a reflex arc that tells our muscles to contract (e.g. Close your eyes and have someone drop a weight into your open hands, you automatically contract your biceps to catch the weight, even before conscious thought).
    - We have sensors (Golgi Tendon Organs) that cause muscles to relax, again to protect us, when the detect a sustained stretch. This is why you need to hold static stretches for significant time before the muscle relaxes and lengthens.

    With this theory, those, along with our structures are a bit out of whack - muscle spindles become too sensitive, Golgi-tendons fail to cause relaxing.
    This theory is likely what is effected by the "Hot-Shot" Drinks which attempt to stimulate the vagal nerve which causes relaxation.
    Check this study by Tim Noakes: https://www.cdefis.com/wp-content/up...4197367281.pdf

  12. #512
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    Quote Originally Posted by sethschmautz View Post
    Just needing a gut check here. When doing VO2 workouts I should be focusing my power on zone 5 and when I'm doing threshold I should be focusing on zone 4, is that correct?

    Sent from my SM-S908U using Tapatalk
    Assuming your zones are set correctly, yes.

    This looks like a perfectly executed threshold workout. Even if you were doing 5 x 5 min (25 min total) at 250watts, you're always going to get a little residual above and below.
    If you were doing them based on HR, you would have a larger portion of time in the Zone 3 because your HR needs to rise through that to achieve Zone 4. Keep holding the workload steady at the Z4 effort, even though your HR distribution will make it look like you did a lot of Z3.

  13. #513
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    Quote Originally Posted by XtrPickels View Post
    Assuming your zones are set correctly, yes.

    This looks like a perfectly executed threshold workout. Even if you were doing 5 x 5 min (25 min total) at 250watts, you're always going to get a little residual above and below.
    If you were doing them based on HR, you would have a larger portion of time in the Zone 3 because your HR needs to rise through that to achieve Zone 4. Keep holding the workload steady at the Z4 effort, even though your HR distribution will make it look like you did a lot of Z3.
    Thanks for the input. I think that was 3x10 with 10 min warm up and 5 minutes in between. I have a ways to go to still to keep my power consistent throughout the set.

    In the past I think I've tried to push harder on VO2. In my mind I was thinking that VO2 Max efforts should be all out but looking at this it makes it seem like it's NOT all out. This takes me back to something you wrote earlier - it's better to do 10 good efforts at a consistent 250w vs 300w for the first 5 then fall apart on the last 5.

    Sent from my SM-S908U using Tapatalk

  14. #514
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    Quote Originally Posted by sethschmautz View Post
    Thanks for the input. I think that was 3x10 with 10 min warm up and 5 minutes in between. I have a ways to go to still to keep my power consistent throughout the set.

    In the past I think I've tried to push harder on VO2. In my mind I was thinking that VO2 Max efforts should be all out but looking at this it makes it seem like it's NOT all out. This takes me back to something you wrote earlier - it's better to do 10 good efforts at a consistent 250w vs 300w for the first 5 then fall apart on the last 5.

    Sent from my SM-S908U using Tapatalk
    Yeah - You need a solid 3 to 8 minutes for VO2 to plateau depending on the workload. If you can only hold a workload for less than 3 minutes, it likely is involving too much anaerobic / high energy phosphate system to elicit a high VO2.

    While anything over FTP / CP / Threshold will eventually elicit VO2 max, workloads / efforts longer than 10 minutes tend to cause. VO2 to rise so slowly that you actually spend very little time at VO2max.

    5 to 8 minute efforts, for 20 - 40 total minutes of work per session, at the highest workload that you can sustain for each rep, tend to achieve the most "Time at VO2 max", especially if you do them with shorter (2-3 minutes) of rest to prevent VO2 from dropping too low between sets. If you need 5 to 10 minutes of recovery between, you'd actually spend more time at VO2max by dropping the workload a bit and taking shorter rest... which is counterintuitive.

  15. #515
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    Finally getting back into the swing of things over the past couple weeks. Roughly 10 week post covid and still not 100%, but feeling great today.

    Been lifting and doing intervals on the bike again. Been taking NAC, Reservatol, CoQ10, daily as well as all my other usual supplements.

    Also, Beta-Alanine is like fucking rocket fuel. Wow.

  16. #516
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    Quote Originally Posted by Whiteroom_Guardian View Post
    Finally getting back into the swing of things over the past couple weeks. Roughly 10 week post covid and still not 100%, but feeling great today.

    Been lifting and doing intervals on the bike again. Been taking NAC, Reservatol, CoQ10, daily as well as all my other usual supplements.

    Also, Beta-Alanine is like fucking rocket fuel. Wow.
    Take it easy after COVID and listen to your body. If it tells you that you need more rest, take it. It's hard to climb out of a hole that's dug.
    You might feel like you're a few steps behind, but don't rush to get it back ASAP.

    NAC is great stuff for Free-Radicals and inflammation. I take it during recovery weeks when my body is feeling especially beaten up.
    There is some evidence that anti-oxidants can limit exercise adaptation through reduced signaling. In your current situation I think it's a great addition. However, if and when you're feeling 100% again, I'd limit its use.

    As an aside, some report that NAC helps with hangovers, the research is a bit inconclusive.

  17. #517
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    Quote Originally Posted by XtrPickels View Post
    Take it easy after COVID and listen to your body. If it tells you that you need more rest, take it. It's hard to climb out of a hole that's dug.
    You might feel like you're a few steps behind, but don't rush to get it back ASAP.

    NAC is great stuff for Free-Radicals and inflammation. I take it during recovery weeks when my body is feeling especially beaten up.
    There is some evidence that anti-oxidants can limit exercise adaptation through reduced signaling. In your current situation I think it's a great addition. However, if and when you're feeling 100% again, I'd limit its use.

    As an aside, some report that NAC helps with hangovers, the research is a bit inconclusive.
    This is what baffles me. Yesterday I felt the best I have in 2 months. Worked all day and then lifted with the team. The guys were all struggling during the lift and I was ready for another rotation through the workout. Felt amazing.

    By 10pm the chest started hurting again. Today I feel pretty shitty again with tight chest and shortness of breath.

    Supposed to have team camp in Moab next week......not sure what to do at this point.

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  18. #518
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    Quote Originally Posted by Whiteroom_Guardian View Post
    This is what baffles me. Yesterday I felt the best I have in 2 months. Worked all day and then lifted with the team. The guys were all struggling during the lift and I was ready for another rotation through the workout. Felt amazing.

    By 10pm the chest started hurting again. Today I feel pretty shitty again with tight chest and shortness of breath.

    Supposed to have team camp in Moab next week......not sure what to do at this point.

    Sent from my SM-G973U using Tapatalk
    Not too dissimilar to what I've been hearing. Can feel great and then be hammered by recovery / some systemic inflammation thereafter.

    Re. Team Camp
    1. Try to be as healthy as possible. Eat well, stay hydrated, no booze. You know the drill.
    2. Be tactical with your effort. E.g. If something is a big, tough, ride that's fun but doesn't help you progress then consider sitting it out. Prep dinner for the group and work on your bike or skills. Save your energy and spend it on the days / rides that are going to help you progress the most.
    3. Be as rested as possible going into it. Take a few extra days off, eat well, etc.

  19. #519
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    Quote Originally Posted by XtrPickels View Post
    Not too dissimilar to what I've been hearing. Can feel great and then be hammered by recovery / some systemic inflammation thereafter.

    Re. Team Camp
    1. Try to be as healthy as possible. Eat well, stay hydrated, no booze. You know the drill.
    2. Be tactical with your effort. E.g. If something is a big, tough, ride that's fun but doesn't help you progress then consider sitting it out. Prep dinner for the group and work on your bike or skills. Save your energy and spend it on the days / rides that are going to help you progress the most.
    3. Be as rested as possible going into it. Take a few extra days off, eat well, etc.
    Thanks. My coach is going to re-work my program for now and keep me on base building. It seems that hard Z4/Z5 intervals are what triggers these symptoms to come raring back.

    I bought a pulse ox today. I climbed the stairs at a somewhat brisk pace tonight and put the meter on my finger when I got to the top of the stairs. 92%. Pretty sure that's not good.

  20. #520
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    EAAs vs BCAAs...any opinions?

    I get that BCAAs are probably totally sufficient when considering either so no need to make this too complicated, but to nerd out when would you consider adding EAAs instead? For fasted morning gym workouts, EAAs are my intra workout go to. However for endurance rides (2hour+) is there any advantage to the EAAs? I feel like there might be more muscle sparing on long rides when using EAAs instead of BCAAs but is the advantage minuscule?

    Other than cost any disadvantage to continuing with only EAAs?

    BTW, my go to drink for the last few years on the bike is to mix ATP Labs Pure EAAs with maple syrup and Himalayan salt.

  21. #521
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    Quote Originally Posted by robnow View Post
    EAAs vs BCAAs...any opinions?

    I get that BCAAs are probably totally sufficient when considering either so no need to make this too complicated, but to nerd out when would you consider adding EAAs instead? For fasted morning gym workouts, EAAs are my intra workout go to. However for endurance rides (2hour+) is there any advantage to the EAAs? I feel like there might be more muscle sparing on long rides when using EAAs instead of BCAAs but is the advantage minuscule?

    Other than cost any disadvantage to continuing with only EAAs?

    BTW, my go to drink for the last few years on the bike is to mix ATP Labs Pure EAAs with maple syrup and Himalayan salt.
    Just have some whey protein, it’s cheaper and more complete. Amino acids have just as many calories as protein (I’ll continue to argue that protein calories “don’t count” but they still have an insulin response so be aware if your goal is to make fasted-gainz).
    "High risers are for people with fused ankles, jongs and dudes who are too fat to see their dick or touch their toes.
    Prove me wrong."
    -I've seen black diamonds!

    throughpolarizedeyes.com

  22. #522
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    I pay a decent amount of attention to endurance sports nutrition and have never heard of anyone supplementing with BCAAs or EAAs DURING exercise. Where did you get the idea that that would be a good plan? It seems like it might be a bodybuilder thing.

    Broken record time: when your heart rate is high and you're getting after it your body wants and can only really process...wait for it... FUCKING SUGAR. Maybe on some kind of ultra-endurance effort you'd want to introduce some protien, but 2 hours barely qualifies as and endurance ride. If you're not going hard you might not need to eat anything at all for that length of time.
    ride bikes, climb, ski, travel, cook, work to fund former, repeat.

  23. #523
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    Quote Originally Posted by climberevan View Post
    I pay a decent amount of attention to endurance sports nutrition and have never heard of anyone supplementing with BCAAs or EAAs DURING exercise. Where did you get the idea that that would be a good plan? It seems like it might be a bodybuilder thing.

    Broken record time: when your heart rate is high and you're getting after it your body wants and can only really process...wait for it... FUCKING SUGAR. Maybe on some kind of ultra-endurance effort you'd want to introduce some protien, but 2 hours barely qualifies as and endurance ride. If you're not going hard you might not need to eat anything at all for that length of time.
    The idea is that gluconeogenesis is going to happen in longer events due to running out of glycogen, taking in AAs will help prevent muscle being used for that. Definitely not necessary in shorter events. Eating enough carbs for the effort is the best way to keep it from happening.
    "High risers are for people with fused ankles, jongs and dudes who are too fat to see their dick or touch their toes.
    Prove me wrong."
    -I've seen black diamonds!

    throughpolarizedeyes.com

  24. #524
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    Agreed that the use of EAA/BCAAs in endurance activities is not as well promoted or even as valid/useful, however, I'm of the opinion that being 45, when I'm training (between lifting and riding) 15hrs and going 20+ hrs/week once riding season hits that I will do what I can to minimize muscle catabolism. Maybe it's useless, hence why I bring up the discussion. And obviously agreed on endurance activities being longer than the 2+ I stipulated above.

    BTW, morning workouts are fasted only due to time limitations (feel better going to the gym an hour after waking without food than with), EAAs during, food immediately after.

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