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  1. #176
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    Seth- My apologies- I completely missed your questions, but it looks like you've gotten some great info that echo's what I would have said. Kudo's to everyone.
    1. Your more recent zones look appropriate, if 170bpm is your Threshold HR (Which it very likely could be).
    2. When doing specific efforts, aim for the middle of the Zone. E.g. If base is 140-150 bpm, Aim for 145bpm. It's OK if you bump up against the upper limit or even go slightly over, but aiming for the middle gives you that padding for when the terrain or excitement causes you to go a bit harder.

    Re. Testing:
    1. Do the 20 min all-out test. Hour long tests are near impossible to get an accurate result because of the required mental fortitude.


    re. Zones:
    1. There's two schools of thought as mentioned: The 3 zone system endorses by Seiler and the 5+ zone system endorsed by everyone else. All the systems that have 5+ zones are essentially the same through threshold, some add in additional zones above threshold (e.g. 5a, 5b, 5c or 6,7,8).
    2. The 3 zone system's Zone #1 Base is roughly equivalent to Zone #2 Base in the other systems. However, it's technically a bit higher of of a workload. I, personally, like the 3-zone way of thought, however, I prefer the base workload of the 5 zone system (which is closer to 1.5mmol of Lactate vs. Seiler's 2.0mmol of Lactate).

    Re. Volume week intensity
    1. Staying in Base (Z2 (5+ zone)) plan will help prevent any unnecessary fatigue. However, I often do one workout during the volume week, assuming everything feels good.
    2. Each zone doesn't necessarily have to be 7 days. (A week is just such a convenient length of time). In your recovery "week" you can do the Monday Group ride (if you feel good. If you feel tired, skip it), rest hard Tuesday-Friday, Pick your volume week back up on the weekend. However, shortening the cycle means you have to be real good about recovering (decreasing workload, no additional life-stress, eating well, etc.). If you're bad at recovering, then take the full cycle.


    Re. VO2 vs. Threshold Efforts:
    1. First, I use HR for Efforts below threshold and maybe efforts just above threshold. However, for most efforts above threshold just know that they need to be very hard. Try to pace yourself so that you can make it through the workout with an even effort (e.g. in a 4x 8 min VO2 workout, that the first and last interval are within 10% of each other in terms of power or performance (e.g. for the e.g.: You climb to roughly the same point in 8 minutes for each effort)). This means the first effort is likely hard, but doable and that the last effort isn't much fun at all. If we think about this in terms of watts, I'd rather someone did 300w, 300w, 300w, 300w instead of 350, 300, 275, 250.
    2. As said above, typically Threshold efforts are in the >15+ minute range and V02 efforts are <10 minutes.

    Traditional:
    Threshold: >10minutes per rep, 3-5minutes recovery, 30+ minutes of total work (e.g. 3x10 minutes, 2x20 minutes, etc. ) Workload = Sustainable for the interval length. The total work and workload increases as your fitness improves, but the rep length doesn't necessarily.
    VO2: <10 minutes per rep, Recovery as much as needed to repeat the performance, up to the amount of time of the rep, 15-30 minutes of total work. Workload = Sustainable for interval length (you can work harder for 8 minutes than you can for 20). E.g. 3x8 minutes, with 5-8 minutes recovery. The total work and workload increases as your fitness improves, but the rep length doesn't necessarily.

    You can also do shorter rest intervals:
    Threshold example: 3 sets of a block that consists of 3 reps of 5 minutes "on" / 1 minute "off". This is a way to do longer threshold workouts, but with a bit of a mental break. In between sets, you'd still do the 5 minute recovery.
    VO2 Example: 3 sets of a block that consists of 8 reps of 30 seconds at very hard effort / 30 seconds recovery spin. 5 minutes between sets. The 30 second effort is harder than you could hold for your typical 8min VO2 effort, and the shorter recovery ensures you're sucking in a lot of oxygen during the block.

  2. #177
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    Quote Originally Posted by jamal View Post
    Yeah that.

    I really noticed that HR lag doing those 40/20s last week to the point where I was wondering if I didn't go hard enough. It would take quite a few to even crack 170 (my threshold is around that). But, at the same time I'm doing upper vo2 power on every one and it's like 30min of total work so I think it's fine. And I definitely felt it the next couple days.
    Totally fine and expected. Your HR may reach VO2 toward the end of the last set, but less likely prior to that.
    Often, HR will lag so much that the HR peaks are in the recovery portions of the effort.
    40/20 x 10 + 30/30 x 10

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  3. #178
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tailwind View Post
    Alright... I’m trying to be more diligent with my training rather than just ‘riding really hard’.

    Any suggestions on how to structure intervals? I have very very basic experience. My current routine is a 1 minute max effort up a 12 percent grade hill by my house then coasting back of the start and going again. I alternate sitting vs standing for efforts. I think this works well... but gosh is it brutal. Anything more refined I should try? Today I tried 40 second max efforts, 20 seconds of recovery then 4 minutes moderate pace repeating for around an hour.

    The goal is a 12mph average in a 100 mile race in August. Working on transitioning to bike fitness now. I’m in good shape but just not currently fast on the bike so I’m working to build some speed.
    There's 2 paths (or a combination thereof) moving forward.
    1. Focus purely on "physiology"
    2. Focus on the demands of the event.

    What is the 100 race, what is the terrain like and what are your limitations?
    IF there is brutally steep climbing AND hiking it is where you are going to lose a lot of time, THEN I think that the 1 minute efforts could be great.
    OR
    IF you are racing short-track / xc AND you need the power to attack for the win, THEN I think the 1 minute efforts could be great.

    These 1 minutes efforts are spicy and fun in the sadistic way, However, barring those two situations (or similar) you're likely better off with some longer intervals.

    You have plenty of hills around you, and the weather (aside from today) is getting nicer, so feel free to do all your training outside.

    Each week, aside from a rest week, I'd do 1 workout focused on VO2 efforts and once focused on threshold efforts.

    VO2 type intervals: find a hill that you can put a very hard 8 minute effort in, climb that 3 times to start with 5-8 minutes of recovery.

    Threshold, longer, efforts on a climb that allows you to go quite hard for 15-30 minutes, do 2-3 efforts.

    Everyone should remember that there's nothing magical about 8:00 exactly. If your effort turns out to be 7:30, great. If you need to go 8:30 to reach the top, that's great too. Try to stay within 10% of the goal time and you'll be golden.

    Additionally, you don't have to do a perfect interval of continuing to climb the same climb. You can do this on flat trail, on the road, etc. The only reason to do the same hill is it's easier to get right, but doing it while having a fun trail ride is possible too; you just need to put a bit of thought into the route selection and be mindful of when you need to start and stop pushing. E.g. maybe you need to start pushing on the flat before the climb because the next climb is only 4 minutes long.

  4. #179
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    This is perfect.

    I'll work on some longer intervals. I tried some ladder style intervals today and a couple of six minute VO2 intervals. It's much harder for me to find an appropriate effort to hold for a 6 minute interval. I end up pressing really hard then just trying to hang on for the last half of the interval. I guess that's likely not bad but it's interesting to notice that I really can't gauge effort all that well for shorter presses. I'll spend the next week or two working on VO2 intervals then see if I can incorporate some threshold intervals.

    Thanks for the feedback!

    Quote Originally Posted by XtrPickels View Post
    There's 2 paths (or a combination thereof) moving forward.
    1. Focus purely on "physiology"
    2. Focus on the demands of the event.

    What is the 100 race, what is the terrain like and what are your limitations?
    IF there is brutally steep climbing AND hiking it is where you are going to lose a lot of time, THEN I think that the 1 minute efforts could be great.
    OR
    IF you are racing short-track / xc AND you need the power to attack for the win, THEN I think the 1 minute efforts could be great.

    These 1 minutes efforts are spicy and fun in the sadistic way, However, barring those two situations (or similar) you're likely better off with some longer intervals.

    You have plenty of hills around you, and the weather (aside from today) is getting nicer, so feel free to do all your training outside.

    Each week, aside from a rest week, I'd do 1 workout focused on VO2 efforts and once focused on threshold efforts.

    VO2 type intervals: find a hill that you can put a very hard 8 minute effort in, climb that 3 times to start with 5-8 minutes of recovery.

    Threshold, longer, efforts on a climb that allows you to go quite hard for 15-30 minutes, do 2-3 efforts.

    Everyone should remember that there's nothing magical about 8:00 exactly. If your effort turns out to be 7:30, great. If you need to go 8:30 to reach the top, that's great too. Try to stay within 10% of the goal time and you'll be golden.

    Additionally, you don't have to do a perfect interval of continuing to climb the same climb. You can do this on flat trail, on the road, etc. The only reason to do the same hill is it's easier to get right, but doing it while having a fun trail ride is possible too; you just need to put a bit of thought into the route selection and be mindful of when you need to start and stop pushing. E.g. maybe you need to start pushing on the flat before the climb because the next climb is only 4 minutes long.

  5. #180
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    Uggh. I've done several 20 minute tests in the last 5 days with varied results. The first test was with HR monitor 1 (Suunto bluetooth HR chest strap) which seems to be neither accurate nor precise. That one yielded a 229 max HR with an average of 183 during the 20 minute test. Further testing with that HR showed significant anomalies like HR ramping while coasting/standing still or decreasing while hammering up a hill. I would put this down as HR lag except the values are so far off. This has been confirmed with a new battery.

    HR monitor 2 (also a Suunto bluetooth HR chest strap) seems to be more precise but I'm questioning accuracy. There is a short, but steep hill about 2/3 through my 20 minute test. It's long enough that I can usually get my HR to max out in the high 170s or low 180s. On today's test I maxed at 167 bpm. Average HR on the 20 minute test was 160bpm. This has also been confirmed with a new battery.

    A couple of thoughts (input is welcome/needed):
    Up until this, I've been using the optical HR monitor from my Coros Apex. I switched because I figured I would want to watch my watch more closely during training rides and that's hard to do when it's on my wrist.

    Precision is probably more important than accuracy. It *seems* as though HR monitor 2 is more precise/reproducible. It is possible that by adjusting my zones for what HR monitor 2 is outputting that I can be successful in proper training, but I would need to set my threshold down closer to 160 vs 170.

    Or, I could buy another HR strap and see if that helps.

    Seth

  6. #181
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    Quote Originally Posted by XtrPickels View Post
    Seth- My apologies- I completely missed your questions...
    No worries - looks like you had your hands full on the White Rim. Lots to digest. I'm sure I'll have some questions. Thank you!

  7. #182
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    Chest heart rate monitors ought to be more accurate than optical units. It's odd that yours are a bit freaky.
    The one thing I can think of is ensuring the strap is wet where it contacts your skin. Water or spit are fine.

    Monitor 1 is unreasonable and likely inaccurate.
    Monitor 2 is reasonable and potentially accurate.

    Monitor 2 may seen inaccurate based on your use of the Apex. If that's the case I'd defer to monitor 2. If, however, you've seen higher numbers with monitor 2 before this test, then there are two possibilities.
    1. You were tired / glycogen depleted and not able to get to the higher heart rates. (Was your performance as good as before).
    2. The HRM was being flaky.

  8. #183
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tailwind View Post
    This is perfect.

    I'll work on some longer intervals. I tried some ladder style intervals today and a couple of six minute VO2 intervals. It's much harder for me to find an appropriate effort to hold for a 6 minute interval. I end up pressing really hard then just trying to hang on for the last half of the interval. I guess that's likely not bad but it's interesting to notice that I really can't gauge effort all that well for shorter presses. I'll spend the next week or two working on VO2 intervals then see if I can incorporate some threshold intervals.

    Thanks for the feedback!
    For almost all of my efforts longer than 1 minute, I basically expect the following time course.
    25% to finish: This is easy, I should have gone harder.
    50% to finish: Ok, This is harder than I thought, but I'm strong, I got this.
    75% to finish: Oh crap, I'm not sure I can hold this to the end.
    Finish: FML

    Rinse and repeat.

    For anything less than 1 minute, the suckiness should essentially immediately.

  9. #184
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    Quote Originally Posted by XtrPickels View Post
    Chest heart rate monitors ought to be more accurate than optical units. It's odd that yours are a bit freaky.
    The one thing I can think of is ensuring the strap is wet where it contacts your skin. Water or spit are fine.

    Monitor 1 is unreasonable and likely inaccurate.
    Monitor 2 is reasonable and potentially accurate.

    Monitor 2 may seen inaccurate based on your use of the Apex. If that's the case I'd defer to monitor 2. If, however, you've seen higher numbers with monitor 2 before this test, then there are two possibilities.
    1. You were tired / glycogen depleted and not able to get to the higher heart rates. (Was your performance as good as before).
    2. The HRM was being flaky.
    I've always heard that chest monitors are better than optical, so thanks for confirming. Going point on moisture.

    I did a longer ride last night with a few hard efforts so it's certainly possible that I am tired/glycogen depleted. I'll give it another shot on Thursday after a rest day tomorrow. Last night (with HR monitor 2) my max HR was 169 although I don't think I was putting out quite the effort that I did on that climb today.

    I've put HR monitor 1 in a drawer and will probably just chuck it. Hopefully more info/better data on Thursday.

  10. #185
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    Quote Originally Posted by sethschmautz View Post
    I've always heard that chest monitors are better than optical, so thanks for confirming. Going point on moisture.

    I did a longer ride last night with a few hard efforts so it's certainly possible that I am tired/glycogen depleted. I'll give it another shot on Thursday after a rest day tomorrow. Last night (with HR monitor 2) my max HR was 169 although I don't think I was putting out quite the effort that I did on that climb today.

    I've put HR monitor 1 in a drawer and will probably just chuck it. Hopefully more info/better data on Thursday.
    Sometimes its the strap itself and sometimes its the electronic unit that clips on.
    Make sure there's no corrosion at the connect between the two.

  11. #186
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    I'm technically in week 2 - volume - but I have done like 3 hours of Z2 riding this week. Been super busy at work and all of those other responsibilities in life came to a focal point this week. I'm hoping for a long ride on Saturday, but I'm guessing that doesn't really satisfy the intent of a volume week (get all of your volume on one day).

    In a situation where life happens and you're burning the candle at both ends, do you just keep going? Doing a "recovery" week next week doesn't seem right. If anything, this week has been more of a recovery week (and it's driving me a little crazy). I'm currently planning on doing another Intensity week next week to try to kick the cycle off again and see if I have any better luck.

    As for the HR monitor - I've continued to use Monitor 2. It seems to be precise with reproducible numbers. I'm not seeing major spikes/dips like I was with Monitor 1. I have set my threshold to 162. One of my ramp tests on Sufferfest over the winter gave me a Threshold value of 162 (although I was using Monitor 1). Using those zones it seems like riding in Z2 (134-143) takes some mental effort to not go too fast. Z3 (144-151) feels like I could go forever. Zone 4 (152-163) seems hard and Zone 5 (163+) seems like I have to work really hard to get into and stay in. With Monitor 2 I'm peaking at about 170 so maybe this is close. I am going to try another 20 minute test next week to see if I get any different data.

    Thanks again for the help and let me know if you have any great VO2 or Threshold Interval workouts. I'm pulling what I can from this thread and elsewhere on line.

    Seth

  12. #187
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    There's a lot of info to dig through in this thread. Pickles is killing it! Thanks!

    So I feel like I am still struggling with nutrition. I am riding about 3-5x a week. Two of those days are short stack or TH intervals as I progress through race season. MTB specific weight training 1x per week.

    My coach was like, "Carbs, carbs, carbs!" Since I am doing enduro racing Z4 sprints between chunk is the name of the game, but am I overdoing the carbs?

    Should I ONLY eat carbs night before and during riding?

    I am getting stronger, I am getting faster, and my gut seems to be very persistent lol. As I have said before in this thread I am not in this thing totally for vanity, but all this training and riding and I would like to not have this gut. I also feel more tired than I think I should. I get about 8-9 hours of sleep on a good night. Maybe 4 times a week. The rest it's about 6 or 7 hours.

    I am eating eggs and some toast with butter/jam in the AM. Lunch is a crap shoot and the hardest meal to me to get while working. I find I am not hungry at all and then by 3pm I am starving. I'm gonna go slam some tuna. Dinner varies as well. I try to go high protein. I'm a single dude who sucks at cooking. Treated myself to 3 big sushi rolls last night. Bison/elk tacos, really loving these things:

    https://www.primalkitchen.com/collec...-mushroom-bowl

    I pound choc milk or Hammer whey recovery shakes after a ride. Most nights I am starving by 10 or 11pm even if I ate a big dinner at 8pm. I slam glasses of 1% milk and lowfat cottage cheese. Sometimes two Almond/Sunflower butter and jam sandwiches a day. I wake up around 4 or 5am starving pretty much everyday no matter how much I ate the night before.

    Are those Whoop things or some kind of wearable glucose monitor worthwhile at this stage?

  13. #188
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    Quote Originally Posted by Whiteroom_Guardian View Post
    My coach was like, "Carbs, carbs, carbs!" Since I am doing enduro racing Z4 sprints between chunk is the name of the game, but am I overdoing the carbs?
    ...
    Are those Whoop things or some kind of wearable glucose monitor worthwhile at this stage?
    It doesn't sound like you're going too crazy with the carbs, waking up at 4am starving every night suggests some level of metabolic dysfunction though. Carbs will help provide more energy for high-intensity efforts but your body will refill your glycogen reserves using protein in 12-24h even on a zero-carb diet.

    A continuous glucose monitor could give you insight on what is causing hunger, how much carbohydrate you need, etc. It's been my experience that shorter sprint efforts don't suffer a lot on low-carb, and when you get to the longer threshold/vo2 durations (~4-20min) a high carb intake really helps.

    IMO the real benefit of low-carb diets is hunger control, I would give it a try for a while and see how it feels. Based on what you're struggling with it's worth a shot for a few weeks.
    "High risers are for people with fused ankles, jongs and dudes who are too fat to see their dick or touch their toes.
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  14. #189
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    Quote Originally Posted by Whiteroom_Guardian View Post
    I slam glasses of 1% milk and lowfat cottage cheese.
    ...
    Are those Whoop things or some kind of wearable glucose monitor worthwhile at this stage?
    JFC, low-fat dairy products? Protein is great but it's not fuel. Don't make me post that Dave Tate story again. Are you getting fat? If not, keep stuffing that pie hole

    Whoop does not measure glucose. Actual continuous glucose monitors are a PITA in general and Rx-only (https://prescriptionhope.com/blog-do...ucose-monitor/). If you're not diabetic your doctor probably won't prescribe one and insurance certainly won; cover it, and they're not cheap IIRC.

  15. #190
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    Quote Originally Posted by bean View Post
    It doesn't sound like you're going too crazy with the carbs, waking up at 4am starving every night suggests some level of metabolic dysfunction though. Carbs will help provide more energy for high-intensity efforts but your body will refill your glycogen reserves using protein in 12-24h even on a zero-carb diet.

    A continuous glucose monitor could give you insight on what is causing hunger, how much carbohydrate you need, etc. It's been my experience that shorter sprint efforts don't suffer a lot on low-carb, and when you get to the longer threshold/vo2 durations (~4-20min) a high carb intake really helps.

    IMO the real benefit of low-carb diets is hunger control, I would give it a try for a while and see how it feels. Based on what you're struggling with it's worth a shot for a few weeks.
    What does metabolic dysfunction mean? I am not processing the food I eat correctly? Your saying I should try delaying my eating of food to quell the crazy hunger spells I get.....re-train my body? Is this the same as intermittent fasting? Probably not a good idea with the biggest race of the season in 2 weeks though.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dantheman View Post
    JFC, low-fat dairy products? Protein is great but it's not fuel. Don't make me post that Dave Tate story again. Are you getting fat? If not, keep stuffing that pie hole

    Whoop does not measure glucose. Actual continuous glucose monitors are a PITA in general and Rx-only (https://prescriptionhope.com/blog-do...ucose-monitor/). If you're not diabetic your doctor probably won't prescribe one and insurance certainly won; cover it, and they're not cheap IIRC.
    I feel like I have an excess amount of belly fat considering I have almost no fat anywhere else on my body. If I am low or no carb I slim down pretty quickly. Maybe I just need to do more core workouts to tighten up down there. IDK.

    Oh course I look at all the other racers at my same level and all of them are zero gut and look like pros. A lot of it may be my latin body type too.

  16. #191
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    Quote Originally Posted by Whiteroom_Guardian View Post
    I feel like I have an excess amount of belly fat considering I have almost no fat anywhere else on my body. If I am low or no carb I slim down pretty quickly. Maybe I just need to do more core workouts to tighten up down there. IDK.

    Oh course I look at all the other racers at my same level and all of them are zero gut and look like pros. A lot of it may be my latin body type too.
    Could definitely be genetics at play, or maybe your past life that was heavy on the sauce, or maybe your cortisol is elevated due to your training load, or all of the above. Regardless, the program that builds you into the fastest racer you can be won't necessarily be the one that gives you a physique that would go on the cover of Men's Health. I'd focus on racing right now and worry about aesthetics in the off-season.

  17. #192
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    Lol yes. Maybe I am still burning off the 10 Million beers I drank in college.

  18. #193
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    What is excess belly fat? You can't see your six pack, or you're hauling a pooch?

    I think I said this up-thread, but trying to train for performance while trying to be hyper lean can be a recipe for failure. It's really hard to properly fuel a heavy training regimen while simultaneously worrying about how much you're eating. If you're hungry, you should eat. You're also gonna get mixed responses on here. Some people just have a six pack no matter what, others have to fight for it. Some people are okay with pounding sugar and processed carbs, others focus on eating whole foods and even limiting carbs. I think you need to pick a nutrition plan and try to stick with it. If that plan is lower on carbs, then you should be eating a fat to make up the energy deficit.

    My n=1 anecdote. I'm generally a pretty lean person, and getting down to fighting weight isn't difficult, but getting to the six pack level is a bitch. It's only a couple extra pounds of fat, but it's a battle, and I've completely jacked my cortisol levels trying to get there while putting in a ton of miles and workouts. The result is constant hunger, shitty sleep, and compounding stress levels. I eventually gave up on the abs and just ate and everything got easier, and my training was more effective. Interestingly enough, I kind of stumbled into "abs" by not training. I was working my ass off to complete a home remodel and wasn't exercising at all, not even a little bit, but I was on my feet for 12+ hours a day and barely eating because I was focused on getting it done in time. I'm kind of over aesthetics now, but if I want to get really lean now, I cut way back on any moderate/intense exercise and instead go for walks and easy hikes and do mini workouts. It's way, way easier to be strict about food when your body doesn't desperately need lots of it.
    Last edited by bagtagley; 05-27-2021 at 12:41 PM.
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  19. #194
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dantheman View Post
    <snip> worry about aesthetics in the off-season.
    As a man, worrying about body "aesthetics" is a fool's errand.

  20. #195
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    I am definitely rocking a little pooch these days, but I am also way faster and stronger so I guess it's just part of the deal.

  21. #196
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    Quote Originally Posted by Whiteroom_Guardian View Post
    I am definitely rocking a little pooch these days, but I am also way faster and stronger so I guess it's just part of the deal.
    Just call it your "primordial pouch."

  22. #197
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    Quote Originally Posted by Whiteroom_Guardian View Post
    What does metabolic dysfunction mean? I am not processing the food I eat correctly? Your saying I should try delaying my eating of food to quell the crazy hunger spells I get.....re-train my body? Is this the same as intermittent fasting? Probably not a good idea with the biggest race of the season in 2 weeks though.
    It typically means chronically elevated insulin or glucose. It's a big subject, lots of interesting reading to be done and also lots of quackery on both sides of the carbs-good vs. carbs-bad discussion - if you start seeing things that suggest the rules of thermodynamics don't apply ignore that author. Don't make any big changes with your biggest race of the year coming up quick, afterwords I think it's worth giving low-carb a trial run if for no other reason than to see how it feels (I think most people would benefit from at least trying it for a month, even if just to see and learn how you respond to it).

    IMO pairing IF with low-carb makes it really easy to drop some extra pounds, low-carb controls hunger and IF tightens up your eating window such that it's harder to overeat. There's no magic to it, just makes it easier to eat fewer calories in a day than if you're having high-carb snacks/meals every few hours and fighting the insulin/glucose/hunger rollercoaster. If you decide to give it a try and get one of those "omg I'm going to die if I don't eat something right now" spells have a cup of black coffee, or go for a walk for 15 minutes and get your mind off it and you'll probably forget you were hungry in the first place.
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  23. #198
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    Thinking about tires quite a bit as Iím training so I figure Iíll ask here.

    Looking for a tire combo that will work well for a 100km and 100 miler I am doing this summer. I have ridden a lot of maxxis tires especially on the more aggressive side of the spectrum, usually running DHFís and Aggressors. I know less about XC tires. The last races I did I used a 2.4 ardent and a 2.35 ikon. Iím wanting to drop a little weight and some rolling resistance.

    Currently running a forecaster up front that Iím pretty happy with and a Recon 2.4 in the back. Iím thinking about trying a Recon Race rear tire in the rear (or even going as crazy as an Aspen). Any thoughts or feedback?

    I have a set of specialized Fast Tracks that Iíve used on occasion that are Ďfineí and feel fast but Iím always a little sketched out by the front grip. I had one crash last year on them where the front washed out an i had an AC joint separation. It also probably could be an option to try to get some more miles on these and get more comfortable with the grip up front (sidewalls seem to fold over a bit as well).

    Iím open to general advice / feedback or recommendations. The first course will be loose over hard conditions, which is part of why I like the forecaster.

  24. #199
    Join Date
    Aug 2002
    Posts
    1,710

    Official Sprocket Rockets Training Thread

    Very much depends on the terrain and how much you like sliding through tricky terrain. For Maxxis XC tires, I was always a fan of Ardent Race up front and Ikon rear. Havenít ridden a Rekon, but looks like a combo of the two I think. Buddy of mine runs 2.4 Aspens and cushcore at real low pressures (like 16/18 @ 155lbs), Iíve ridden with him setup like that and he claims the tire wraps around the rocks for great traction. Havenít done that myself but as long as you take clean lines (he does), seems to work well for a potentially big rolling resistance boost. Also will throw in the Vitoria Mezcal is my favorite XC rear tire Iíve ever run.


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  25. #200
    Join Date
    Oct 2017
    Location
    Evergreen Co
    Posts
    535
    The Mezcal is on the short list of tires Iím interested in. Iíd thought about running them front and rear as a similar tread to the Fast Tracks but stronger sidewalls. Iím having a hard time finding 2.35ís but may give them a try. Itís hard dropping $120-150 on set of tires... but I guess theyíll get used.

    I know a lot of people like the Ardent race but I am a little worried about grip for the first race which is decomposing granite soil. It may be a worth a try though. Weight is about the same as the forecaster but itís likely to roll faster.

    I have a CushCore XC insert I could toss into an Aspen which is what I had been thinking would be heavy but could be efficient for longer miles. I may also have to try testing that setup to see how it feels. Iím on a full suspension XC rig so that could be a pretty smooth setup.

    Quote Originally Posted by VTskibum View Post
    Very much depends on the terrain and how much you like sliding through tricky terrain. For Maxxis XC tires, I was always a fan of Ardent Race up front and Ikon rear. Havenít ridden a Rekon, but looks like a combo of the two I think. Buddy of mine runs 2.4 Aspens and cushcore at real low pressures (like 16/18 @ 155lbs), Iíve ridden with him setup like that and he claims the tire wraps around the rocks for great traction. Havenít done that myself but as long as you take clean lines (he does), seems to work well for a potentially big rolling resistance boost. Also will throw in the Vitoria Mezcal is my favorite XC rear tire Iíve ever run.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

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