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  1. #1
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    Official Sprocket Rockets Training Thread

    We have lots of little conversations throughout our threads, I'm hoping that we can create a compendium of information to reference.

    I'm also hoping to get everyone together later this month for a talk on topics that you propose.

    So- My ask: What training information do you need? Where do you need guidance? What types of riding are you doing and what is holding you back? What are your goals?

    Researchers:
    These are links to Google Scholar. Abstracts available for all research, many have links to PDFs to read the full article. You can also typically find these authors on Youtube, Etc.

    Bent Ronnestad Research List: General Training: Interval Length, Block Periodization, Strength Training,etc.
    Stephen Seiler Research List: General Training / Polarization
    Louise Burke: Substrate (Carbs vs. Fat) Utilization / performance
    Asker Jeukendrup: General Sports Nutrition
    Paul Laursen: Interval Training / General Training

    YouTube Videos:
    Dylan Johnson
    Someone in this thread mentioned him and I've checked a few videos. The ones I've seen are eerily similar to things I've said personally to people 100's of times. I can't say I agree with everything, yet.
    Link to Youtube


    Stephen Seiler Talks
    Seiler is one of the OG researchers in Polarized training. He left Texas to live and research in Norway which is an odd combination. Great speaker. His TED Talks are great.
    Stephen Seiler on Youtube

    PodCasts:
    Marginal Gains: Nerdiness of bike set up, strategy, etc. Typically road focused, but also MTB and Gravel. Rolling resistance, aero, etc. Link
    Last edited by XtrPickels; 03-18-2021 at 09:38 AM.

  2. #2
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    Hold for Reference 1

  3. #3
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    Hold for Reference 2

  4. #4
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    Where everything's a dollar
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    I think we should start with proper sock length.
    The Sheriff is near!

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by Garth Bimble View Post
    I think we should start with proper sock length.
    There is only one proper sock length.

  6. #6
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    Jul 2005
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    Quote Originally Posted by EWG View Post
    There is only one proper sock length.
    Just to ensure I have the right length can you clarify what the appropriate length is? I have ankle length socks and am hoping I don't have to start over.

  7. #7
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    Hope your sock quiver isnít too large, because I have bad news for you...

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by rudy View Post
    Just to ensure I have the right length can you clarify what the appropriate length is? I have ankle length socks and am hoping I don't have to start over.
    As short as possible. You may be ok.

    Just to be clear. Pickles is the training expert here. I am the fashion police.

    No arguments accepted.
    Last edited by EWG; 03-11-2021 at 05:45 PM.

  9. #9
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    Since training is serious bidness is spandex the proper kit?
    www.apriliaforum.com

    "If the road You followed brought you to this,of what use was the road"?

    "I have no idea what I am talking about but would be happy to share my biased opinions as fact on the matter. "
    Ottime

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vt-Freeheel View Post
    Since training is serious bidness is spandex the proper kit?
    I'm not going to dignify that with a response.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vt-Freeheel View Post
    Since training is serious bidness is spandex the proper kit?
    I personally prefer the Cargo Bibshort + Cotton V-Neck T-Shirt look, but to each their own

    Quote Originally Posted by Garth Bimble
    I think we should start with proper sock length.
    Skin is slow. Hike those babies up. No one wants to see little ankle panties.

  12. #12
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    Is there anything to know about cramping that wasn't covered in Dylan Johnson's cramping video? I've made a DIY version of Hotshot that is fairly effective but I still have issues sometimes. I know that the data seems to show that the most effective treatment is to get in better shape, but I still have problems even when I'm well-trained. I never had issues with cramping most of my life, but about 10 years ago it became a chronic problem.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dantheman View Post
    Is there anything to know about cramping that wasn't covered in Dylan Johnson's cramping video? I've made a DIY version of Hotshot that is fairly effective but I still have issues sometimes. I know that the data seems to show that the most effective treatment is to get in better shape, but I still have problems even when I'm well-trained. I never had issues with cramping most of my life, but about 10 years ago it became a chronic problem.
    For me, taking salt pills goes a really long way. On a few occasions ski mountaineering (cold, not sweating) I would get debilitating cramps and starting bringing and prophylactically taking salt pills. Sometimes I would not take them for one reason or another (forgot, didn't want to stop) and the cramps would come back. A couple years ago I did an early season 110mi/11k' road ride I was woefully undertrained for, took lots of salt pills through the ride, and felt great the entire time. A few A/B tests of pushing myself with or without salt pills has me convinced that's the issue, independent of fluid and kcal intake.

    Just my n=1
    "High risers are for people with fused ankles, jongs and dudes who are too fat to see their dick or touch their toes.
    Prove me wrong."
    -I've seen black diamonds!

    throughpolarizedeyes.com

  14. #14
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    Official Sprocket Rockets Training Thread

    Very interested in Pickleís thoughts on cramping.

    I know it goes against the research but I have zero doubt that electrolyte intake helps me. At a minimum, it reduces mental fatigue, but it also minimizes cramping for me. Iím not talking a pill here and there, but max recommended doses starting early in a long ride. If itís placebo Iíll take it cause I got tired of finishing rides with my legs locked up.
    Remind me. We'll send him a red cap and a Speedo.

  15. #15
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    Salt has helped me as well, in cool and hot weather. My DIY Hotshot is a dry mix of salt, cinnamon, ginger powder, cayenne, vinegar powder and sugar. Pills seem to help me less than salt right in my mouth.
    Last edited by Dantheman; 03-11-2021 at 08:58 PM.

  16. #16
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    Oct 2005
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    I'm stoked to see where this goes. Right now I'm in the midst of a big volume push to finish base season. After some consideration of a sweet spot focused plan for this year, I decided to stick with a polarized model, as that's worked well for me in the past. I also just like to spend 25 hours a week on the bike sometimes, so it suits me.

    Lately I've been eating more and more often and even using a diy carb mix in one bottle on harder rides. I still mostly eat my homemade rice cakes, but now I'm eating half every 30 mins instead of going nearly an hour between feedings. It's been great for keeping the energy high in hour 7.
    ride bikes, climb, ski, travel, cook, work to fund former, repeat.

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by XtrPickels View Post
    No one wants to see little ankle panties.
    This might be my favorite new expression of 2021.

    Personally, I dig my Over The Calf Darn Tough socks. I've got the super think hunting version for winter riding, a medium thickness for spring & fall. Wish I could find a lightweight one that doesn't have any design. When they put thread designs in their tall socks the extra threads catch on shit and kill the elasticity.
    Tall socks in summer for tics. Mother. Fucking. Ticks. I'd pull those fuckers up over my ballz if I could.
    Lots of Cream, Lots of Sugar

  18. #18
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    Dec 2003
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    Tech Bro Central
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    pfft. Training.

    Just use the fitness slider. It's in the garage. Behind the socks.

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by bagtagley View Post
    Very interested in Pickle’s thoughts on cramping.

    I know it goes against the research but I have zero doubt that electrolyte intake helps me. At a minimum, it reduces mental fatigue, but it also minimizes cramping for me. I’m not talking a pill here and there, but max recommended doses starting early in a long ride. If it’s placebo I’ll take it cause I got tired of finishing rides with my legs locked up.
    I am very interested in this as well. I have had many many rides cut short due to cramps, and most were not even particularly long rides. For me it is usually a case of too many hard/sprint efforts and I often feel like I have a lot more gas in the tank than the cramps will allow me to use. I do not get out for as many hours/miles as I'd like, but I'd like to think that my general fitness level should be high enough to complete my normal weekday rides without fear of cramps looming in the back of my brain. And more to the point, I would really like to be able to plan longer rides to take advantage of the the rare half or full day hall pass, but I have had some bad outings (due to cramps) the last few times I've tried to do so.

  20. #20
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    Jan 2008
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    Fueling strategy question? I'm going to tackle the Full PRL ride on Saturday morning.
    174 kms (108 miles) 2627 meters (8605 feet). Pacing at 2.0w/kg it should take me 6 hours.
    I'm hydrating all day today to ensure I wake up Saturday hydrated. I'll eat a normal preride breakfast of Latte (with 12oz of milk) some Oatmeal with nuts and fruit and a yogurt.
    Durning my ride I plan to drink a 16oz bottle per hour. I set a stop watch to beep every 10 minutes where I take a sip from my bottle of 2-3oz. I alternate between water and electrolytes every 10 minutes. So thats 6-7 bottles over the ride. Should I include caffeine in some of my electrolyte mixes? I use a a weak Gatorade mix or use nuun tablets and have caffeine options with the Nuun.
    I just don't know what I should eat or how ofter? I know I have the luxury of eating real food because I'm in the house, but I also have plenty of "sport food" that I know my body likes. I have Stinger Waffles, Stinger Chews, Fig Newton Bars, and a Protien 20g bar. But I plan of having a rice protein meal for dinner tonight, and can have left overs during my ride on Saturday.

    How often should I eat, and what should I eat to keep fueled thought this ride?

  21. #21
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    Apr 2004
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    Here's one for you: as someone who rides their bike quite a lot already, what kind of training or riding should I add to see the biggest gains? I don't lift weights at all, but I ride about 60-100 miles a week (all MTB) and do yoga a few times a week on average. My "normal" ride is usually around 15 miles with 3k+ feet of climbing, and it goes up to 30 miles w/ 5k feet in the summer and fall. I live in the Boulder area and typically ride FR stuff, but I travel a ton for work and ride all over the country.

    Should I add weights or resistance training? Should I add more interval work? Should I do a longer ride each week to build stamina? I'm not looking to compete with some of the climbing freaks out here in Colorado, I guess I just want to bump my fitness up to the next level and feel like I can push it harder when I need/want to. I really hope you don't say to lift weights, because I absolutely hate it.

  22. #22
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    Jan 2010
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    your vacation
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    I judge a ride by the joint, is it a quick two puff before you leave the house? Is it a half a joint or a full joint ride? was accosted outside a 7-11 in aurora this past weekend because some cracker liked my spandex outfit I don't think they see alot of spandex in the depths of aurora

    was also considering using meth as a training enhancer after seeing this guy with no shirt on completely raging while fearlessly walking down the middle of mississipi with out a care for the cars around him in denver a few weeks ago

  23. #23
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    Feb 2007
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    Colorado
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    Quote Originally Posted by smmokan View Post
    Here's one for you: as someone who rides their bike quite a lot already, what kind of training or riding should I add to see the biggest gains? I don't lift weights at all, but I ride about 60-100 miles a week (all MTB) and do yoga a few times a week on average. My "normal" ride is usually around 15 miles with 3k+ feet of climbing, and it goes up to 30 miles w/ 5k feet in the summer and fall. I live in the Boulder area and typically ride FR stuff, but I travel a ton for work and ride all over the country.

    Should I add weights or resistance training? Should I add more interval work? Should I do a longer ride each week to build stamina? I'm not looking to compete with some of the climbing freaks out here in Colorado, I guess I just want to bump my fitness up to the next level and feel like I can push it harder when I need/want to. I really hope you don't say to lift weights, because I absolutely hate it.
    Yes you need to lift heavy weights.

    https://youtu.be/V88wwTCs680

  24. #24
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    Sep 2018
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    Quote Originally Posted by bagtagley View Post
    Very interested in Pickle’s thoughts on cramping.

    I know it goes against the research but I have zero doubt that electrolyte intake helps me. At a minimum, it reduces mental fatigue, but it also minimizes cramping for me. I’m not talking a pill here and there, but max recommended doses starting early in a long ride. If it’s placebo I’ll take it cause I got tired of finishing rides with my legs locked up.
    Quote Originally Posted by Dantheman View Post
    Salt has helped me as well, in cool and hot weather. My DIY Hotshot is a dry mix of salt, cinnamon, ginger powder, cayenne, vinegar powder and sugar. Pills seem to help me less than salt right in my mouth.
    Quote Originally Posted by Dantheman View Post
    Is there anything to know about cramping that wasn't covered in Dylan Johnson's cramping video? I've made a DIY version of Hotshot that is fairly effective but I still have issues sometimes. I know that the data seems to show that the most effective treatment is to get in better shape, but I still have problems even when I'm well-trained. I never had issues with cramping most of my life, but about 10 years ago it became a chronic problem.
    I'm no pickles (seriously, dude is a pro), but I've spent a long time chasing down a solution to this problem and I'll pass on what I know. Frankly, some of it may have come through pickles through mutual coach friends. Regardless:

    There is no single cause of cramping. Everyone is different, and many folks have multiple issues that they need to solve. I won't go into the why it happens (though again, Pickles could likely give quite a lecture on the physiology if that is of interest) but here are some of the things that seem to help, in order of impact:

    1. Sleep. By far the most impactful thing for most people as far as my experience. If you are training hard and not sleeping you are setting yourself up for a series of issues, cramping being one. (I think this book is great, by the way, and this is partially covered here: https://www.amazon.com/Good-Go-Athle.../dp/039325433X)

    2. Calcium/Magnesium supplements. They really do work. Lots of them are marketing under names like "sport legs" but I've found you can just use bulk stuff from Costco.

    3. Tylenol. Little known, but Tylenol can enhance endurance and seems to fight cramps. Not sure how - I read a number of studies on this which seem to be totally gone from my mind now. Would not recommend this be a routine supplement for obvious reasons.

    4. Salts. Heavy doses. I like the Gatorade gatorlytes, but only half the pouches at a time. https://www.amazon.com/Gatorade-Endu.../dp/B0050Q4DJS. In theory this is far better for long efforts, but it seems to help me for stuff between 1 and 2 hours.

    5. Fluids with carbs. I am always surprised at how little impact this seems to have, but in extreme circumstances (ie, you just aren't drinking or eating at all) it can get you out of the hole. Most non-beginner people naturally eat and drink enough to keep from cramping from due to this however (in my experience). (now, drinking/eating enough to maintain performance is a different issue entirely)

    6. Pickle juice, mustard, etc. Yeah, anecdotally helps. I understand the theory behind the mechanism, just not sure it's not placebo.

    7. Ok, this one is weird: phosphoric acid. As in, don't drink it (it's a major ingredient in most soft drinks.) My wife is a human health scientist and she worked with this guy who swore up and down that it pulled calcium out of your system and could cause muscle cramps under high loads. I did not believe it, but tried it. It worked for me. I don't think it was placebo, and there is science behind it.

    8. Potassium. Again, makes sense in theory, but rarely the issue in my experience.


    Hope this helps.
    Last edited by EWG; 03-12-2021 at 10:15 AM.

  25. #25
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    Apr 2004
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    Quote Originally Posted by bean View Post
    Yes you need to lift heavy weights.

    https://youtu.be/V88wwTCs680
    OK... so I'll change my question to "what else can I do other than lifting weights" to make noticeable gains in fitness on the mountain bike?

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