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  1. #26
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    Sandy, Utah
    Posts
    14,410
    Quote Originally Posted by mtneerski View Post
    Alright guys it will die with me. Figured some hard up skier could use a hook up. You guys never bought and clipped lift tickets in the parking lot? I'll definitely be teaching my kid that trick. By the time he's buying his own tickets, window rates will be $700.
    I say they got your money. Sure it's technically theft of services, but, to me what's the difference if you ski the days or someone else does? They expect the days to be used.
    And on this board, if you didn't clip tickets in the lot you're a fucking liar. This is 100% no different.

    Sent from my Pixel 4a (5G) using TGR Forums mobile app

  2. #27
    Join Date
    Aug 2002
    Location
    PA
    Posts
    2,648
    My little bump of a local hill in PA (Bear Creek) I believe is having a record season between way more pass sales (unrestricted, no reservation) and the lift ticket reservations for Fri, Sat, Sun have sold out every week this year, despite limiting ticket sales. Even weeknights have been pretty ridiculous some weeks, especially when we got snow that week.

  3. #28
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Posts
    19,201
    Quote Originally Posted by Skidog View Post
    I say they got your money. Sure it's technically theft of services, but, to me what's the difference if you ski the days or someone else does? They expect the days to be used.
    And on this board, if you didn't clip tickets in the lot you're a fucking liar. This is 100% no different.

    Sent from my Pixel 4a (5G) using TGR Forums mobile app
    The anonymity of a generic lift ticket never occurred in your risk analysis?
    Is it radix panax notoginseng? - splat
    This is like hanging yourself but the rope breaks. - DTM
    Dude Listen to mtm. He's a marriage counselor at burning man. - subtle plague

  4. #29
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    Sandy, Utah
    Posts
    14,410
    Quote Originally Posted by MakersTeleMark View Post
    The anonymity of a generic lift ticket never occurred in your risk analysis?
    It's still theft. If dude wants to risk his own ass by potentially being caught, or buyer/user chooses same well shit. Some thieves get caught some don't.

    Sent from my Pixel 4a (5G) using TGR Forums mobile app

  5. #30
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Posts
    426
    Isn't there a dark web for stuff like this, where you get paid in Bitcoin or something? Or has that now become TGR?
    Originally Posted by jm2e:
    To be a JONG is no curse in these unfortunate times. 'Tis better that than to be alone.

  6. #31
    Join Date
    Oct 2017
    Location
    Evergreen Co
    Posts
    969
    Good question... honestly I’m not sure that was an off the cuff comment. I work in business lending (at a non-profit not a giant bank). Revenue for business this year has been super strange. Some outdoor industry spaces are doing great (rafting companies for example) but a lot of other areas have struggled more than you would think. For a resort it’s a question of where are they making their money... which varies from one mountain to the next. If I had to guess, small mountains are doing well... but big resorts not not as great... but I’ve been surprised other times during the pandemic. We’ll see once we get some data.

    At the end of the day... I’m just not down with the logic that a group (or person) having a lot of money justifies stealing goods or services. Put in the context of TGR... someone not paying for a piece of gear because the seller has enough money and the buyer doesn’t is bullshit. Inequality sucks and I’m not trying to advocate for Uber wealthly groups... but It doesn’t change that being comfortable stealing doesn’t help anyone. Not trying to defend alterra... I just think this mindset makes the world a worse place.

    Quote Originally Posted by gregorys View Post
    Is there some real evidence of this?
    This isn't the first place I've heard that line, or that line of thinking - but I just don't buy it.

    I'm sure it might be different, different places - but the place I have experience with, I'd guess that they're having one of their most profitable years in the last 5. [At least if we consider lift-lines and parking lot fill on any average day so far this year. And considering they are doing "dynamic" ticket pricing that's charging - $130 for a ticket that last year would have been $100 at best.]

    This isn't a call-out - I'm honestly interested in some real data backed up by something other than "I think." (Or even the "I'd guess" of my opinion - even though that has some solid first-hand long-term observation in it.)

  7. #32
    Join Date
    Sep 2015
    Posts
    1,279
    Quote Originally Posted by Tailwind View Post
    Good question... honestly I’m not sure that was an off the cuff comment. I work in business lending (at a non-profit not a giant bank). Revenue for business this year has been super strange. Some outdoor industry spaces are doing great (rafting companies for example) but a lot of other areas have struggled more than you would think. For a resort it’s a question of where are they making their money... which varies from one mountain to the next. If I had to guess, small mountains are doing well... but big resorts not not as great... but I’ve been surprised other times during the pandemic. We’ll see once we get some data.

    At the end of the day... I’m just not down with the logic that a group (or person) having a lot of money justifies stealing goods or services. Put in the context of TGR... someone not paying for a piece of gear because the seller has enough money and the buyer doesn’t is bullshit. Inequality sucks and I’m not trying to advocate for Uber wealthly groups... but It doesn’t change that being comfortable stealing doesn’t help anyone. Not trying to defend alterra... I just think this mindset makes the world a worse place.
    To be super clear, I didn't advocate the OP's plan.
    I'm somewhat ambivalent about it, though. I'm kinda of the opinion "If you want to risk that, then - well, I guess it's your ass on the line."
    I wouldn't do it myself though, but I wouldn't likely help Alterra find out about it either.

    But I can certainly understand the mindset. IMO, the resorts are doing things that seem way more rooted in maximizing profit even if it seems unreasonable on the face of it.
    And here's one example;
    Lift ticket for today (weekday ticket, pretty low visitor numbers, I'm sure) at MHM: $130, unless you purchased it - what, last week - in which case it might have been $110-120
    Season pass at MHM - lets use the "value pass" price. ~$420 (IIRC)

    That's NUTS.
    Why is a regular weekday ticket more than 25% of the cost of a pass?
    I was offended when a season pass was break-even in around a week of day tickets.

    Yeah, the resorts is going to claims all sorts of stuff as the "reason" - but IMO, none passes the smell test.
    So, when things look that sketchy - well, I completely understand why people pull stuff like trying to swap passes.
    I don't agree with it, but I get where it comes from.

    But that whole conversation just gets complicated fast.

    Provide good value and things that the public will see as reasonable, and the public will be willing to support you, IMO.
    Act like a robber-baron however - and well, I'm not likely to cry a lot when your house gets burned down. (Even if I'm not going to support the arsonist.)

  8. #33
    Join Date
    Aug 2014
    Posts
    334

    selling a full Ikon pass

    I support your interest in helping others, OP. I offer my pass to close friends who can’t afford one when I’m not skiing. I wouldn’t go out and sell mine if I was done with it, but I’ve given em to friends before to help them out. My friends>Vail Corp


    Sent from my iPhone using TGR Forums

  9. #34
    Join Date
    Feb 2019
    Posts
    104
    For Vail Resorts 20/21 season:

    "Season pass sales through September 18, 2020 for the upcoming 2020/2021 North American ski season increased approximately 18% in units and decreased approximately 4% in sales dollars as compared to the period in the prior year through September 20, 2019, with sales dollars for this year reduced by the value of the redeemed credits provided to 2019/2020 North American pass holders. Without deducting for the value of the redeemed credits, sales dollars increased approximately 24% compared to the prior year."

    https://unofficialnetworks.com/2020/09/28/epic-pass-sales-up-18-over-last-year/

    Quote Originally Posted by gregorys View Post
    Is there some real evidence of this?
    This isn't the first place I've heard that line, or that line of thinking - but I just don't buy it.

    I'm sure it might be different, different places - but the place I have experience with, I'd guess that they're having one of their most profitable years in the last 5. [At least if we consider lift-lines and parking lot fill on any average day so far this year. And considering they are doing "dynamic" ticket pricing that's charging - $130 for a ticket that last year would have been $100 at best.]

    This isn't a call-out - I'm honestly interested in some real data backed up by something other than "I think." (Or even the "I'd guess" of my opinion - even though that has some solid first-hand long-term observation in it.)

  10. #35
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    Idaho
    Posts
    10,953
    TGR.silkroad.com. Look into it.

  11. #36
    Join Date
    May 2002
    Posts
    33,440
    I remember when the Sierra Green Pass worked quite well. The goodle daze.

  12. #37
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    Dystopia
    Posts
    21,053
    Anyone that borrows or lends a pass in the days of photo id and pass scanners is a fool. They have days and days of photos of you and your face, helmet, jacket etc.
    and a bounty on your head. Those folks looking at the kiosk or the iPad are rewarded handsomely for busting you.

    I understand the angst. $164 day tickets? Fuckkkk

    The mega passes have ruined day trip affordability.
    But theft of services is a crime.

    Unless you’re in a state that has decided to not charge for anything under $500, in which case go for it.
    . . .

  13. #38
    Join Date
    Jan 2017
    Location
    Seattle, WA
    Posts
    2,184
    What’s up with those iPads at Ikon and Epic? Does it show up with a bunch of your pictures? Just your pass picture? How much does the liftie get for busting someone?

    Not advocating for anything, but hey we deserve to know the rules here.

  14. #39
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Location
    Wasatch
    Posts
    1,997
    Saw a guy at Brighton (of all places) yesterday got asked to remove mask and goggles to verify Id.

  15. #40
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    Denver
    Posts
    2,624
    Very bad form OP.

  16. #41
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Location
    Access to Granlibakken
    Posts
    11,184
    Quote Originally Posted by jmedslc View Post
    Saw a guy at Brighton (of all places) yesterday got asked to remove mask and goggles to verify Id.
    Yeah I saw that happen here in Tahoe in January. Liftie was polite but firm.

    It’s almost like — get this! — there are tons of people thinking ‘hey covid mask plus goggles means they can’t see my face!’. And the ski resorts are like ‘Dude, what makes you think that’s something we hadn’t thought you’d try.’

  17. #42
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Location
    Access to Granlibakken
    Posts
    11,184
    BTW, the OP should post a photo of his pass here. That way potential buyers can confirm they look like him. It’s the perfect plan I tell ya

  18. #43
    Join Date
    Aug 2014
    Posts
    334
    Quote Originally Posted by frorider View Post
    Yeah I saw that happen here in Tahoe in January. Liftie was polite but firm.

    It’s almost like — get this! — there are tons of people thinking ‘hey covid mask plus goggles means they can’t see my face!’. And the ski resorts are like ‘Dude, what makes you think that’s something we hadn’t thought you’d try.’
    Are those resorts also not opening lifts due to low staffing? Because that’s what’s happening at Steven’s, lack of lifties. Maybe someday I’ll see a lifty with an iPad checking id’s but here it ain’t gonna be this year


    Sent from my iPhone using TGR Forums

  19. #44
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Location
    Access to Granlibakken
    Posts
    11,184
    Quote Originally Posted by mufasa5446 View Post
    Are those resorts also not opening lifts due to low staffing? Because that’s what’s happening at Steven’s, lack of lifties. Maybe someday I’ll see a lifty with an iPad checking id’s but here it ain’t gonna be this year


    Sent from my iPhone using TGR Forums
    There are no resorts around here not opening lifts due to low staffing, AFAIK.

    And there are black jackets (Security) circulating checking for mask wearing, at least on some days.

  20. #45
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Location
    Seattle
    Posts
    3,723
    At my hill (Alpental), they only have a person scanning passes ~50% of the time. From 2:30 - 4pm yesterday, they didn't have anyone even visible at the lift. The "lifties" were in the booth the whole time.

  21. #46
    Join Date
    Oct 2003
    Location
    In Your Wife
    Posts
    8,291
    Yeah, but in fairness, that place is run like (and feels like) it's in a third world country sometimes.

  22. #47
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    CO
    Posts
    2,720
    Quote Originally Posted by thejongiest View Post
    What’s up with those iPads at Ikon and Epic? Does it show up with a bunch of your pictures? Just your pass picture? How much does the liftie get for busting someone?

    Not advocating for anything, but hey we deserve to know the rules here.
    I'm actually curious exactly how this works. I've seen people with mask up, goggles on etc get instantaneously pulled out of line for using somebody else's pass with a level of confidence from the liftie that exceeded a hunch, even before any kind of ID verification happened. Also have a friend who this happened to at Vail and she even took it as far as to wear the passholder's jacket. It would make sense if they had a bank of imagery from past scans as Core Shot said and ran some kind of recognition algorithm which is pretty simple to do, but you'd need a decent amount of data to have that work. For example I would probably be easy to bust since I've scanned in 40+ days this season all at SkiCo mountains within a 5 mile radius in a reliable pattern and worn the same jacket every time, but how well would that work if I was an epic/ikon passholder who skied 7 days a season all at different mountains and had a couple different jackets? Would this method penalize the people who ski the most since they're the ones who have enough data on them to allow the liftie/software to make a more confident prediction when they look "different"?

    I've also heard theories about tying pass RFIDs to people's phones but that starts to sound like tin foil helmet shit

    Mostly curious about how this is done at places like Vail and other epic/ikon mega mountains since that's where I've seen people get sniped out of line with conviction
    Quote Originally Posted by other grskier View Post
    well, in the three years i've been skiing i bet i can ski most anything those 'pro's' i listed can, probably

  23. #48
    Join Date
    Feb 2019
    Posts
    104
    Quote Originally Posted by frorider View Post
    Yeah I saw that happen here in Tahoe in January. Liftie was polite but firm.

    It’s almost like — get this! — there are tons of people thinking ‘hey covid mask plus goggles means they can’t see my face!’. And the ski resorts are like ‘Dude, what makes you think that’s something we hadn’t thought you’d try.’
    Yeah, its like, no one is getting away with it.

  24. #49
    Join Date
    Aug 2018
    Location
    beaverhead county
    Posts
    4,528
    Quote Originally Posted by phatty View Post
    At my hill (Alpental), they only have a person scanning passes ~50% of the time. From 2:30 - 4pm yesterday, they didn't have anyone even visible at the lift. The "lifties" were in the booth the whole time.
    terrible liftie etiquette
    swing your fucking sword.

  25. #50
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Location
    SoCal
    Posts
    538
    Quote Originally Posted by frorider View Post
    There are no resorts around here not opening lifts due to low staffing, AFAIK.

    And there are black jackets (Security) circulating checking for mask wearing, at least on some days.
    OFFTOPIC

    I wonder if the resorts are able to get their usual number of J1 staffers this year due to COVID? I guess the trouble isn't getting into the US...

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