Solution to a missing package, who's at fault?

[jackattack]

100th reply
did the powder skirt ever find its owner?
congratulations, y'all we did it.

[ridinshockgun]

When you buy used, you take a risk with each transaction in exchange for much cheaper prices. Eventually it WILL come around and you'll lose something, break something and not be able to warranty, etc, etc.

But if you habitually buy used gear you still come out ahead but when this kind of stuff happens you have to chalk it up to part of the deal. Think of this more long term and it isn't as painful to lose a package.

[Garbowski]

I'll just add my two cents:

When I was selling on eBay, it it was my responsibility until it was in the hands of the buyer. I was at fault 100% of the time. USPS delivery confirmation only meant it was delivered to the zip code was what I was told. I lost packages as a seller at a strikingly higher rate than I ever had experienced as a buyer. Easiest scam in the world- pay via PayPal and say you never got it. You get the item and your money back no questions asked. Pissed me off but was the cost of doing business.

Seattle? It was stolen.

[Vitamin I]

...The buyer had his package stolen after delivery. End of story, seller has no responsibility here.

yup. amazing that the thread has continued so long - this seems pretty obvious

Agreed. To me, the point is: If a Buyer isn't seeing the obvious, it shouldn't take 4 months of dispute for someone here to educate the Buyer. Sellers can help make this community a better place by nicely telling the Buyer, on Day1 of the dispute, how the relevant responsibilities work. Apparently, in this case, the education did not happen, and apparently Seller did not make it clear that his follow-up offers like pro deals are just optional above-and-beyond pity-offers out of the kindness of his heart.

Bonus points if Sellers remind Buyers it might help to just post their own new pity thread saying "My helmet disappeared last week, does anyone have any pity hookups for me?" Plenty of people here tend to offer help to the community and "spread out the losses".

...The buyer generating the label - to me - seems like a better SOP that just like anything in life will never cover 100% of circumstances perfectly, but is a big improvement in protection and responsibility over the current SOP.

Sounds good to me...unless Sellers here don't have convenient access to printers.

.

[jacob_dbu]

Y'all are looking way too far into this. I wasn't treated the way I would have treated someone else in the flip position. I asked the collective if I was being a dick for feeling a little sore. Apparently yes, that's what this thread is about. You guys are getting way more worked up about this than I ever was.

I guess it was a good discussion to figure out what SOP / general consensus is here on the TGR forums. Price shipped equals boxed and put into the mail with a tracking. Sellers responsibility ends there, period. Some sellers may go above and beyond, don't expect it (clearly based on these responses my god ).

I anticipate having a lot more dope hook ups both as a seller and a buyer. I'm out, off to go fuck your mom .

[rangerjake]

Y'all are looking way too far into this. I wasn't treated the way I would have treated someone else in the flip position. I asked the collective if I was being a dick for feeling a little sore. Apparently yes, that's what this thread is about. You guys are getting way more worked up about this than I ever was.

I guess it was a good discussion to figure out what SOP / general consensus is here on the TGR forums. Price shipped equals boxed and put into the mail with a tracking. Sellers responsibility ends there, period. Some sellers may go above and beyond, don't expect it (clearly based on these responses my god ).

I anticipate having a lot more dope hook ups both as a seller and a buyer. I'm out, off to go fuck your mom .

Lol. Dude, what did you expect when you started this thread? For real, it has been mind blowingly constructive and thoughtful for a TGR GS dispute thread. You got your community response, a clear explanation of where most people stand, and frankly, spurred good discussion on how to make things better. Lashing out or being a snarky tool based on reasonable responses in the thread you started - for the stated purpose of soliciting responses - paints you as either clueless or poopypants because most people don’t side with you.

If you’re done with the thread move along. It has nothing to do with you anymore and no additional contributions from you are needed.

Enjoy the fuck

[Meadow Skipper]

Y'all are looking way too far into this.

It’s what we do.

But if it’s any comfort this is likely to serve as a reference thread in the future.

[1000-oaks]

Price shipped equals boxed and put into the mail with a tracking. Sellers responsibility ends there, period.

Don't think anyone has said that on this thread. Yeah a couple folks attempted to camouflage self-entitlement with a thin veneer of pseudo warm fuzzy love and world peace, but it was pretty transparent. Reason (and shipping carrier claim policy) dictates that transfer of ownership occurs at delivery, when the seller arranges the shipping.

You were mostly reasonable before (if the seller was overly generous and promised $40, he should have followed through), don't falter now. I'll still sell to you, lol.

[RShea]

It's not like he used some 3rd rate courier service or put in the wrong address. He acted in good faith and the package got lost after delivery.

I'd state based on experienced that he really did use a 3rd rate package shipping method. After UPS, FedEx (depending on if Express or Ground), and then the USPS with their recent issues. I'd wonder why the refusal of the claim- based on the fact that GPS coordinates? How do they know it is that package? And of course the seller could have discussed things like signature required (which usually does not happen in my experience with USPS but it is an option....

[jacob_dbu]

Don't think anyone has said that on this thread. Yeah a couple folks attempted to camouflage self-entitlement with a thin veneer of pseudo warm fuzzy love and world peace, but it was pretty transparent. Reason (and shipping carrier claim policy) dictates that transfer of ownership occurs at delivery, when the seller arranges the shipping.

You were mostly reasonable before (if the seller was overly generous and promised $40, he should have followed through), don't falter now. I'll still sell to you, lol.

Hah, I just wanted to get into the ring and spar a bit. Mostly a quip at rangerjake...

Ah, I got a feeling when something sells here it’s “$____ shipped” or “$_____ +ship”. That’s whatcha get. I don’t tie my sales to the independent actions of 3rd parties. If a buyer wants something in their hands when they hand over money they can go to REI and pay rack rate. That’s not a reasonable system here. On numerous occasions I’ve used the buyers preferred handling company- sometimes the buyer even provides the shipping label. Listing says shipped, not delivered. Words have meanings.

[rangerjake]

Price shipped equals boxed and put into the mail with a tracking. Sellers responsibility ends there, period.

Yep- that’s it. I’m saying it.

Now, don’t get it twisted. Sellers is still responsible if they fucked up before they put it in the mail with tracking: grossly incompetent packing, incorrect or not-as-advertised product, wrong address.

But, assuming all was done correctly the seller is good, notwithstanding any instances of consummated generosity.

Lost package/carrier damage? Buyer responsible for insurance.
Stolen off your porch? Buyer responsible for sig. conf.
Stolen from your mailroom b/c you don’t check or keep an eye on tracking? SOL. They don’t even make an add-on expense to cover that. Handle yours.

[huckmadtrix]

Wow...all this...for $135.

[rangerjake]

Wow...all this...for $135.

For $40

[jacob_dbu]

For $40

Just checked...you have more posts on this thread than I do...

Anyways as mentioned. I'm out. Have fun folks!

[rangerjake]

Just checked...you have more posts on this thread than I do...

Anyways as mentioned. I'm out. Have fun folks!

Like I said- you are not needed here.

[Danno]

Wow...all this...for $135.

For $40

What is the accepted amount of money to start a thread like "all this"? To some people, even to some dentists on TGR, $40 is a lot of money, and $135 sure as fuck is.

Your points would be much better taken if the amounts in question were smaller. I could absorb a $135 loss, sure, and certainly a $40 loss, but if I felt wronged, $135 (or even $40) is definitely enough to warrant taking action. I might not do so because of the stress involved (and I'm definitely not commenting here on the substance of the transaction), but the notion that these amounts of money are trivial seems a little highfalutin.

[RadSkier_]

This thread was so dumb to follow along yet i couldn't help myself from reading it all.

OP is definitely the kind of guy who lurks around others at the bar when shots are ordered in order to score one, but probably has never bought a round of shots in his life. Or the kind of guy who brings a case of beer to a gathering at someone's house but then takes home the 5 beers he didn't drink..

Having something stolen sucks - make no mistake about it. But trying to guilt the seller into sharing some of your loss is pretty lame considering he did everything right.

[rangerjake]

What is the accepted amount of money to start a thread like "all this"? To some people, even to some dentists on TGR, $40 is a lot of money, and $135 sure as fuck is.

Your points would be much better taken if the amounts in question were smaller. I could absorb a $135 loss, sure, and certainly a $40 loss, but if I felt wronged, $135 (or even $40) is definitely enough to warrant taking action. I might not do so because of the stress involved (and I'm definitely not commenting here on the substance of the transaction), but the notion that these amounts of money are trivial seems a little highfalutin.

I was making a joke. But, since you asked, this thread isn’t about money. Because the buyer is out money, $135 or $40, that isn’t coming to them-on merit or benevolence.

Truth be told I am happy to have taken part in this thread because it has changed how I will do transactions on GS. But the more I think about it I have no idea what it this thread is really abouT

It’s started to feel like a millennial’s safe space to get a reality check on their entitlement. “I bought goods on a forum for a great deal. I didn’t keep tabs on tracking and I didn’t get my shipment insured. Somebody stole it or lost it- not my fault. I want the seller to give me some money back after they did all they could to help me track the pkg down. Somebody please tell me I’m right.”

Of course the buyer isn’t owed a refund for an item delivered or stolen or lost but uninsured.

Of course the seller isn’t obligated to “chip in” on some bad luck, bad planning, or bad neighbor problems. Since he said he’d throw $40 he should have done that. But that’s just keeping your word.

It’s cool there are some generous and understanding mags here- even the less generous ones are solid people. But there was nothing here that ever needed bitching about nor resolving.

[Danno]

I was making a joke. But, since you asked, this thread isn’t about money. Because the buyer is out money, $135 or $40, that isn’t coming to them-on merit or benevolence.

Truth be told I am happy to have taken part in this thread because it has changed how I will do transactions on GS. But the more I think about it I have no idea what it this thread is really abouT

It’s started to feel like a millennial’s safe space to get a reality check on their entitlement. “I bought goods on a forum for a great deal. I didn’t keep tabs on tracking and I didn’t get my shipment insured. Somebody stole it or lost it- not my fault. I want the seller to give me some money back after they did all they could to help me track the pkg down. Somebody please tell me I’m right.”

Of course the buyer isn’t owed a refund for an item delivered or stolen or lost but uninsured.

Of course the seller isn’t obligated to “chip in” on some bad luck, bad planning, or bad neighbor problems. Since he said he’d throw $40 he should have done that. But that’s just keeping your word.

It’s cool there are some generous and understanding mags here- even the less generous ones are solid people. But there was nothing here that ever needed bitching about nor resolving.

You do recognize that while the majority holds the same view as you, that there was a significant minority that did not? So your "of course"s seem a little off base, and the notion that nothing needed to be resolved -- when the OP felt like something did need to be resolved -- is simply you saying "I'm right, this is objectively true and the OP is objectively wrong, and there is no other way to look at this". Which is another way of saying "any of you who think different are simply wrong because I am right".

I get that you have an opinion, and one you are of course entitled to have, and one the majority has, but you're treating it like it's objective fact and not opinion.

[ex-powderbroker]

Jongiest- what do you think paypal + fee would have accomplished? the would have looked at the delivery confirmation and said sorry too. That is where all of this discussion of used vs big box falls apart. USPS just hosed you.

[rangerjake]

You do recognize that while the majority holds the same view as you, that there was a significant minority that did not? So your "of course"s seem a little off base, and the notion that nothing needed to be resolved -- when the OP felt like something did need to be resolved -- is simply you saying "I'm right, this is objectively true and the OP is objectively wrong, and there is no other way to look at this". Which is another way of saying "any of you who think different are simply wrong because I am right".

I get that you have an opinion, and one you are of course entitled to have, and one the majority has, but you're treating it like it's objective fact and not opinion.

I don’t need to advocate my view as the only view-it is only my view.

But you should reread what I said and you should reread the opinions from those who have weighed in.

Absolutely others have said they would have acted differently than the seller. In that they’d want to compensate and ease the shittiness for the buyer. Legit- in circumstances so would have I. Some others have advanced their perception of the propriety of an eBay/escrow model where a sale isn’t completed until it’s in the buyers hand. I think that view (for those who advance that as “the way” GS should operate) has been roundly rejected as both not the way it is nor the way it should be.

So I stand by exactly what I wrote. In short: buyer for one reason or another got fucked-but he didn’t get fucked by the seller who did everything reasonable and his full duty (excepting promising something and reneging). There is no “owe”. Buyer should look in the mirror about where he dropped the ball, not what the seller should be doing to right a situation he had no role in fucking up.

[MakersTeleMark]

I mean, we do have the UCC and things like https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FOB_(shipping) for this very reason.

[Vt-Freeheel]

Yup