salomon soft bases?

[thefortrees]

Turns out even those burly ON3P bases can't stand up to a drill press when mounting. Drill went straight through the base, wtf?

[mn_teleswede]

IME,
A ski base should be straight black: no stupid colors. Black.

Drinking the same KoolAid here, albeit the watered down version though; cuz I don’t mind a logo on my bases.


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[altacoup]

Did you ever think that this may have to do with the conditions and manner in which you ski the two skis? Seems far more likely that is the culprit, and not different base materials from two skis in the same model line.

Not at all. In fact I think powder skis are the most likely to get huge core shots. Way more likely to be skiing fast and the rocks are covered in snow, where as I ski the 106 in firmer conditions where I can see and avoid rocks. Both core shots I have on the 106 happened at slow speeds and really shocked me that they weren’t just small scrapes. My 118s I got almost for free and have skied them without regard or care of breaking them and they’ve held up great.


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[DeepHelmet]

I have the same shop tune my Elan Ripstick‘s and my ON3P super goats. I have noticed zero difference in the speed at which those two skis glide in similar conditions, but I have noticed that the ON3P super goats definitely sustain less damage in the same type of rock hits. Same thing for my Volkls and my Blizzards. I don’t know what it is, I guess maybe ON3P bases are just a little thicker? When I wax the super goats myself, I don’t have any problem getting a good buff out of them I just change the angle of the ski so I can see it without the graphic light hits it. Black would be easier, but it’s not a big deal.


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[wasatchback]

There is no ski coming out of the Amer, Volkl, Fischer, Blizzard, Elan, Stockli, Head factory that cost more than $500 US that’s made with some sort of sub standard base material. I’m 99% positive of that and 100% positive on one of those factories. However none of these manufacturers are using “thick” bases on anything big rental skis.... for a reason.

[glademaster]

There is no ski coming out of the Amer, Volkl, Fischer, Blizzard, Elan, Stockli, Head factory that cost more than $500 US that’s made with some sort of sub standard base material. I’m 99% positive of that and 100% positive on one of those factories. However none of these manufacturers are using “thick” bases on anything big rental skis.... for a reason.

Thank you. That's been my experience generally.

Not at all. In fact I think powder skis are the most likely to get huge core shots. Way more likely to be skiing fast and the rocks are covered in snow, where as I ski the 106 in firmer conditions where I can see and avoid rocks. Both core shots I have on the 106 happened at slow speeds and really shocked me that they weren’t just small scrapes. My 118s I got almost for free and have skied them without regard or care of breaking them and they’ve held up great.


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We ski in different places, but I hit more rocks, and hit them harder, when there isn't fresh snow than when there is. Although that was also the case when I lived and skied in LCC/BCC. Float like a butterfly, sting like a bee...

[Norseman]

last two posts reek of sn00t, and though well-founded, now I'm curious.

Does anyone have a spreadsheet handy that details the available base materials and their properties, and maybe which brands use each?

The only manufacturer I'm familiar with is Crown plastics, with their acclaimed Durasurf line.

What else is out there? What is actually being used in the mainstream brands?

Lookin to learn something here

[snowaddict91]

I'm just here to say that I also get way more big core shots in my pow skis. Fresh snow can hide a lot of shit and promotes hauling ass.

And the ON3P durability hype is real from my experience.

[glademaster]

Another important consideration with base/edge thickness is how many times you can tune them. ON3P is likely the industry leader, or near the very top in this regard, given the thickness of their base material and edges.

[mr_pretzel]

Also lets add to norseman, is there a single major manufacturer thats uses the Durasurf base outside the US? Is that why we feel there is a big difference between the US made indies and the euro made skis?

[I've seen black diamonds!]

Praxis and ON3P use thicker bases than most. IIRC 1.2mm is pretty standard. Praxis uses something like 1.6mm. ON3P 1.8mm.

[Marshal Olson]

last two posts reek of sn00t, and though well-founded, now I'm curious.

Does anyone have a spreadsheet handy that details the available base materials and their properties, and maybe which brands use each?

The only manufacturer I'm familiar with is Crown plastics, with their acclaimed Durasurf line.

What else is out there? What is actually being used in the mainstream brands?

Lookin to learn something here

CPS and ISOspeed are the others.

Like most businesses, they have a wide range of materials, and if you want, the specs for each product line are on their websites.

[gregL]

CPS and ISOspeed are the others.

You will probably do better searching for ISOsport, ISOspeed is the tradename for the base material. Pretty sure they are the biggest.

https://www.isosport.com/en/categories/isospeed

[Norseman]

Yeah I've been looking and found some spec sheets from Isosport and Crown.

I'm aware of the difference between sintered and extruded bases and can easily tell them apart.

But I'm not sure I could tell the difference between durasurf 4001, 2001, and IS7xxx or whatever... at least visually. Maybe when waxing? Spent a few winters at a tuning bench but have lost the familiarity of volume.

Still curious about where each type is used. Surely all the nice models use a dense sintered base, and going beyond this is academic dweebery... but I'd still be interested to know.

[tuco]

And the ON3P durability hype is real from my experience.

Yep. I've had the unique experience of deconstructing around an edge delam on a pair of Wrens before I could repair it.
They are tough.

[noslow]

As many of you have said, ON3P uses pretty high density Crown 4001 bases that are thicker than anyone else so they can take decent hits before going all the way through. The 4001 number is actually a measure of density which other companies like P-Tex(actually a name brand like Kleenex) will also list. If you go to the Volkl site, you will see what models of skis use what base versions. Many consumer models use the decent P-Tex 2100 vs race skis using 4000 and 4500 versions.

Many mention black bases and they are usually Carbon infused now which will increase glide speed and the reason all race skis have black bases as they are usually high densities and carbon infused. Often called “race bases” in literature.

Because carbon will discolour the base, anytime you see a colour besides a black base, it’s usually not infused. Moment switched from the Crown 4001 to another’s companies carbon infused 7500 black base this season and glide has been increased and should be a bit tougher as well. Use standard thickness on their bases though.

So definitely a certain Salomon(or any company) could have a softer AND thinner base material vs an ON3P but a Salomon race ski may have an even denser and faster gliding base than an ON3P.

[onenerdykid]

As many of you have said, ON3P uses pretty high density Crown 4001 bases that are thicker than anyone else so they can take decent hits before going all the way through. The 4001 number is actually a measure of density which other companies like P-Tex(actually a name brand like Kleenex) will also list. If you go to the Volkl site, you will see what models of skis use what base versions. Many consumer models use the decent P-Tex 2100 vs race skis using 4000 and 4500 versions.

Many mention black bases and they are usually Carbon infused now which will increase glide speed and the reason all race skis have black bases as they are usually high densities and carbon infused. Often called “race bases” in literature.

Because carbon will discolour the base, anytime you see a colour besides a black base, it’s usually not infused. Moment switched from the Crown 4001 to another’s companies carbon infused 7500 black base this season and glide has been increased and should be a bit tougher as well.

Most race skis have black bases, but not all. It depends on the speed at which the racer needs to go. In slalom, for example, the speeds needed for winning a race don't necessitate a carbon-infused black base. This is why you see our athletes on multi-colored or red bases:





When the speeds are faster than what is required in slalom, then you will see bases go all-black

[noslow]

Most race skis have black bases, but not all. It depends on the speed at which the racer needs to go. In slalom, for example, the speeds needed for winning a race don't necessitate a carbon-infused black base. This is why you see our athletes on multi-colored or red bases:





When the speeds are faster than what is required in slalom, then you will see bases go all-black

Yes, should have said “most” race skis are black as you can still have very dense, fast bases that aren’t carbon infused. Allows companies to have logos or graphics when they aren’t black and often visible during a slalom run or in the air on a freestyle ski.

[Wes Mantooth]

I've never noticed much difference in durability across brands...except K2. I got more core shots in half a season on a pair of Poachers than I have in all of my other skis combined in the last 5 years, and those are supposed to be their "bomber" park skis. I swear if you skied over a dandelion you'd get base damage

[ASmileyFace]

I've never noticed much difference in durability across brands...except K2. I got more core shots in half a season on a pair of Poachers than I have in all of my other skis combined in the last 5 years, and those are supposed to be their "bomber" park skis. I swear if you skied over a dandelion you'd get base damage

This is the better question here. Who makes the least durable skis? It seems to me that I see completely destroyed K2s a lot... but I have yet to see any of their recent skis come through the shop.

[I've seen black diamonds!]

This is the better question here. Who makes the least durable skis? It seems to me that I see completely destroyed K2s a lot... but I have yet to see any of their recent skis come through the shop.

The OG Cochises had bases made of cold butter, but it was worth it. Newer Blizzards have perfectly fine bases.

[Skidog]

never gave 2 shits about my bases...rocks? Grass? dirt?

Tools, not treasures.

[hoarhey]

tools, not jewels...

I appreciate the durability of my Praxis GPO's bases.

Haven't skied anything else in 5+ years.

I've been a midwest skier skiing jackson/aspen for the last 5 years 5-20 days, so not much mileage (kids, etc).

I find many more rocks than my wife, as is evidenced when I bring both pairs into shop for an annual grind and hand tune (shout out to Sunset in Snowmass).

hers - deburr and wax, me full tune with grind, some ptex, sharpen and wax.

I deburr/was/brush my skis regularly otherwise.

[stuckathuntermtn]

Wow, I never realized how many different SKU's there are when it comes to base material.
The Q lab bases are bright green and 1 ski has Salomon die cut in it. It's a pain in the ass when it comes to waxing, but don't seem to make a difference on snow that I can tell. If fact, their so fast, I struggle to tell any difference in waxes. I also just add some graphite wax occasionally.

My housemate ordered a new board and insists that Burton uses some special base you don't have to wax right away or store in wax over the summer. He even said he read something about using base cleaner?!
Dude. Just....... dude.

At least wax to keep your bases harder. There's isn't much to hit at Snowbowl right now outside the gravel in the parking lot, but there's always a lurker of some kind.

[Jtlange]

This is the better question here. Who makes the least durable skis? It seems to me that I see completely destroyed K2s a lot... but I have yet to see any of their recent skis come through the shop.

Line for the stuff we sell. No brand gets warrantied more.