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Thread: United 328.....Holeeeeee Shit.
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02-20-2021, 09:17 PM #26
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02-20-2021, 09:17 PM #27
Why isn't it e-sops, eh?
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02-20-2021, 09:20 PM #28man of ice
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02-20-2021, 09:27 PM #29
Extended Twin OPerationS
and there are dozens more just like it
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02-20-2021, 09:27 PM #30
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02-20-2021, 09:30 PM #31
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02-20-2021, 09:33 PM #32
Then the pilot's announcement may have more of an edge to it.
Apprently ETOPS was originally just "extended operations," but effectively these days it's referring to two-engine aircraft.
By the way, we do analyses for what happens if a fan blade does impact primary structure and it's easiest to just assume it has infinite energy. If the engine cowling doesn't contain the thrown blade bad things can happen.
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02-20-2021, 09:37 PM #33
I had no idea, but that makes sense. 747s ruled the world before any of the big twins, and the DC8 before that.
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02-20-2021, 09:44 PM #34
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02-20-2021, 09:46 PM #35
Are uncontained rotor failures not a subset of uncontained failures?
"Most gas turbine engine failures are “contained” which means that although the components might separate inside the engine, they either remain within the engine case or exit it via the tail pipe. This is a standard design feature of all turbine engines and generally means that the failure of a single engine on a multi engine aircraft will not present an immediate risk to the safety of the flight. Sizeable pieces of ejected debris may, though, present a hazard to persons on the ground.
However, an “uncontained” engine failure is likely to be a violent one, and can be much more serious because engine debris exits it at high speeds in other directions, posing potential danger to the pressurised aircraft structure, adjacent engines, the integrity of the flight control system and, possibly, directly to the aircraft occupants."
https://www.skybrary.aero/index.php/...re#Description
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02-20-2021, 09:47 PM #36man of ice
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02-20-2021, 09:49 PM #37
It must operate under ETOPS at all times.
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02-20-2021, 09:51 PM #38
Yes, they are. This Denver incident seems to have been a contained failure--at least as far as we know now. The actual engine components like turbine and fan blades were contained as far as not entering other parts of the aircraft.
The videos from the engine containment tests are pretty dramatic. For example:
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02-20-2021, 09:53 PM #39
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02-20-2021, 10:03 PM #40
If uncontained rotor failures are a subset of uncontained failures, that means there are other possible causes of uncontained failures; i.e., shit flying off the outside of the engine would also be an uncontained failure by definition since the failure is not contained within the engine or exhaust. No?
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02-20-2021, 10:15 PM #41
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02-20-2021, 10:28 PM #42man of ice
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Yes.
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02-20-2021, 10:43 PM #43
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02-20-2021, 11:05 PM #44
Oh, now I get where you're coming from. Pilots use the word twin as a type, i.e. if one engine fails the airplane is still a twin.
When I was a young(ish) lad in ground school, I was told that the word twin was in there because back in the day it was considered to be crazy to fly a twin over open ocean.
I'm kinda laughing that the word twin isn't even in there, but most pilots I know think it is. Just like most think they're Maverick when they're actually Murdock.
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02-20-2021, 11:50 PM #45
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02-21-2021, 01:04 AM #46
Totally get that. I'd just think it's a bigger deal to be on the initial acceleration and climb and lose an engine vs. at cruise altitude and lower power. Do twin engine craft basically need to be able to do everything as a single, from roll out and takeoff or make certification?
And the old school way to get around ETOPS was the DC-10 and L1011 Tri Star. 3 engines means no need for ETOPS certs, but didn't come with 747 size.I've concluded that DJSapp was never DJSapp, and Not DJSapp is also not DJSapp, so that means he's telling the truth now and he was lying before.
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02-21-2021, 01:51 AM #47
Short answer, yes.
There's a calculation for "balanced field" which in its simplest form means that the aircraft can accelerate to the speed it needs to get airborne (which is weight dependent) and then if something goes wrong is capable of stopping within the remaining runway using only the brakes.
Speeds in an airplane are denoted by the letter V, for instance the speed at takeoff is Vr (speed at rotation).
Now let's say there isn't enough runway for the aircraft to accelerate to Vr then pull the power, slam the brakes, and stop before sliding off the end. So you're going to need a new speed to set as your decision point between stopping or going flying.
That speed is called V1, and in the case of this shorter runway it's obviously going to be slower than Vr.
In order to be certified, a twin engine passenger jet must be able to lose one engine at V1, continue the takeoff roll, and climb to a safe altitude above the airport.
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02-21-2021, 09:11 AM #48
Having trouble wrapping up how v1 could be greater than vr?
I am not in your hurry
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02-21-2021, 09:53 AM #49glocal
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When an engine goes out on a twin engine jet, the first th thought is the other is going to go out, ie, bad fuel.
Also, DJ - density altitude.
Sent from my SM-S767VL using TGR Forums mobile app
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02-21-2021, 10:53 AM #50
Last edited by Ted Striker; 02-21-2021 at 11:15 AM.
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