Why Pozidriv?

[PlayItLeo]

Used to use square drive trim screws a ton as a finish carpenter before GRK screws became common - but I’ve been out of the game for almost a decade, so maybe torx has totally taken over. Anyways, quick life hack, you can use a #2 square driver tip on pozidrive screws in a pinch. Can really help on screws that are stripping out. Carry on.


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[NW_SKIER]

Why would you say that? You can more easily blind load a drywall gun with a phillips and they pop off the bit when they get enough torque and don't over drive. I've met plenty of anal retentive inspectors that take joy in failing screwing inspections on 2hr rated walls for over driven fasteners that rip the paper... You wouldn't want a bit to hold the screw better than a phillips.

Make sure you get a permit for that toilet wax ring too.

[RShea]

Rybczynski spends some time discussing the Canadian invention, the Robertson screwdriver.

Which arguably is the best screwdriver design in history and would make a great ski screw choice. Of course it may allow more dentists to mess up their skis than already do because it is more common than pozidriv.

I need to Google the Robertson, I do not think I've heard of it, let alone seen what it looks like. I've seen and have pozidriv bits, but do not think I have any Robertson drivers.

Edit- I do it is just what I call a square headed never heard of Robertson screw...

And why is there no e on the end of Pozidriv??

[RShea]

Appreciate all the responses, I figured it was a case of "this is how it's always been."

There are a lot of fasteners out there, and I've got a boatload of specialty fastener tools, but Pozidriv is a new one for me. Guess I'll be adding another tool to the box.

Also, for you Canadians asking, Robertson aka Square drive has been quickly eclipsed by Torx here. These really only seemed to be used for decking (sometimes framing on a higher end job). But the Torx stuff is nice upgrade, the bits are sturdier than Square drive and seem to wear out more slowly. My drills have all had torque settings so I'm not worried about over driving the screws.

Square head was used for assembly on the old RV camping trailer we had growing up back in the 1960's to 1980's (sold it around the 1990's) ... Used to have the screw driver in one of the drawers as it pretty much only for that, rarely ever saw them anywhere else.

[Ted Striker]

Robertson screws are used extensively in the electrical trade. They work great. I’ve always assumed they’re used due to the lack of other tradesmen on the job having that tool. Don’t touch our shit!

And just like wire they're color coded.

[Ted Striker]

I was motor head back in HS, all the japanese motorcycles used philips which were all soft like good cheese so you needed an impact driver to work on them

Those weren't Phillips, more likely JIS with a slightly different design.

The ghetto JIS mod is to grind the tip flat on a cheap Phillips.

[margotron]

The ghetto JIS mod is to grind the tip flat on a cheap Phillips.

i do this to a lot of my phillips actually. many dont seat deep enough

[old goat]

Seems like screws for electrical outlets and cover plates and the like are slotted, I assume so no one is tempted to use a power driver on them?

The square drive stainless steel deck screws my contractor used are mostly stripped. Fortunately it's easy enough to break the composite decking loose when you need to, as long as you don't need to put it back.

[singlecross]

Slotted/Flatheads are still used in the marine/ boatbuilding industry because the slot goes all the way to the edge of the fastener and won’t hold water in the head. Self draining. Also easy to clean varnish out of to remove if you varnish over your fasteners on your finish coat.

[RShea]

Seems like screws for electrical outlets and cover plates and the like are slotted, I assume so no one is tempted to use a power driver on them?

The square drive stainless steel deck screws my contractor used are mostly stripped. Fortunately it's easy enough to break the composite decking loose when you need to, as long as you don't need to put it back.

Many are slotted or flat head. But not all of them. Some plates have Phillips screws, or some have the combination of slotted and a Phillips both from time to time- which is nice because it works with whatever most people would grab). If I have a plate to take off or put on after an install (low voltage wiring) I usually take either both standard screw drivers out the bag or the multiple bits and an interchangeable driver...

[climberevan]

Slotted/Flatheads are still used in the marine/ boatbuilding industry because the slot goes all the way to the edge of the fastener and won’t hold water in the head. Self draining. Also easy to clean varnish out of to remove if you varnish over your fasteners on your finish coat.

Ok, fine: boats can use flathead screws, but no one else! Even electrical device plates should be Torx. I despise the long screws that come with blanks.

[toast2266]

I surprised more of the gram counter touring bindings haven't switched to different types of screws. Seems like there's some nominal weight savings to be accomplished there. Bike companies have been shaving grams off hardware for years. Roadies love that shit.

[Dee Hubbs]

I surprised more of the gram counter touring bindings haven't switched to different types of screws. Seems like there's some nominal weight savings to be accomplished there. Bike companies have been shaving grams off hardware for years. Roadies love that shit.

Skimo sells aftermarket titanium binding screws for its race weight weenies. Many low tech race bindings come standard with Ti screws.

[XXX-er]

the price per weight saved is not worth it unless you tell everyone you have Titanium fasteners

[toast2266]

Skimo sells aftermarket titanium binding screws for its race weight weenies. Many low tech race bindings come standard with Ti screws.

I was more thinking torx would allow for a smaller head on the screw.

Weight savings would be entirely nominal, but that obviously doesn't matter to the marketing department.

[XXX-er]

I havent had a problem but did i read about an issue with the torx screws on dynafits, something about the size of the head vs the amount of force a Torx driver can put on the screws will break them ??

[waxman]

Ok, fine: boats can use flathead screws, but no one else! Even electrical device plates should be Torx. I despise the long screws that come with blanks.

and high end shotguns, those things are riddled with slot/flathead screws

a buddy went to California to help after one of the natural disasters there in the early 80's one of the american carpenters kept calling the other trades over to check out the weird screws with the tiny socket heads

yep, Henry Ford did the world a disservice by using phillips and Mr. Robertson was a little stubborn after getting screwed on a previous invention (i'm probably wrong but I think he invented tracer bullets or something)

[Jonathan S.]

Skimo sells aftermarket titanium binding screws for its race weight weenies. Many low tech race bindings come standard with Ti screws.

Besides those Dynafit "dealer accessory" Ti screws (which I suspect that nobody has ever purchased), this is the only binding that I'm aware of that ever offered a Ti screw option:
(from my FB FS post on behalf of the owner at the time)

****

Remember the halcyon days of Italian skimo race bindings? Colibri, Crazy Idea, Haereo/Montura, Merelli, PHK, Schia Mechanica – where are they now?

Well, a Merelli binding is right here, and is your chance to own a piece of skimo race gear history!

Originally purchased on eBay by the current seller for the 2012-13 season, with an unknown amount of use before then, and only intermittent use since then.

Weight is 8.6 ounces, plus screws … which don’t amount to much more weight, since they’re titanium! Unfortunately, even the nicely designed Torx 25 head wasn’t enough to prevent stripping on one screwhead, which I managed to extract in a Hail Mary move by dremelling in a slot. I can substitute in a regular steel screw with a Pozi #3 head (for either that one stripped screw or all of them).

Heel unit has a three-hole pattern, and the Left<>Right spacing matches up at 28mm with Dynafit LTR 2.0 / PDG / Speed / Speedfit, so relatively easy to mount for anyone with experience at improvising.

Lateral release resistance at the heel seems relatively low – definitely higher than a Dynafit LTR 1.0, but far lower than a Plum or ATK. Pins are Ti (as are much else about the binding) yet not at all notched except only very slightly in a weird location, most likely indicative of both relatively light use and the seller’s use of them at a ~0.5mm negative gap. (He was somehow able to use far longer boots in them than the original owner, and judged it Good Enough even though he was completely jammed in there.) I have not tried to test the forward release resistance.
Toe has the typical four-hole race pattern. Wings snap in strongly upon entry, but lateral release resistance is relatively low for a race binding, more comparable to touring bindings I’ve tested (i.e., ~35Nm). Combined with the heel, this is most likely a relatively low-value binding for lateral release. (Merelli had some bindings whose pincer tension could be adjusted by adding washers to the springs, but I have no idea if this model can do that.)

Toe lever needs to be pulled up all the way for even moderate skinning. Butt end of toe lever presses against the ski topskin. Pressure against the ski topskin is adjustable via two little plastic screws on each lever that press up against the ski topskin to a varying extent depending on how far you screw them through the lever. However, the further you screw in the little plastic screws, the more likely the toe lever is to flop back down if the ski topskin is very slick, as was the case with the Merelli race skis of the seller. Another factor in the flopping down was that one of the screws had become loose in a stripped hole in the ski. In addition to the unusual carbon construction of the ski (feels like my cf mtb frame when casually tapping my fingers against it), another factor (I think?) for the stripping may have been that the butt end of the lever creates pressure not within the binding, but instead between the binding and the ski, hence almost trying to pull the binding out of the ski. (The Plum Race 1X5 generation was somewhat similar this way, but it reached the point of maximum pressure only briefly as the lever was being pulled up, then once in place it was under less pressure – by contrast, the Merelli lever simply exerts more pressure the more it’s pulled up.)

[stuckathuntermtn]

Wait, so pozi has MORE ability to torque? Always thought the flatter design gave less.

I just assume hex, square, star, or torx means the potential for a tech to fuck something up after too big a bong rip is a lot higher than pozi, which is probably lower than Philips or flathead.

[Pinned]

Wait, so pozi has MORE ability to torque? Always thought the flatter design gave less.

I just assume hex, square, star, or torx means the potential for a tech to fuck something up after too big a bong rip is a lot higher than pozi, which is probably lower than Philips or flathead.

If there was a torque spec I think there would be less of a problem using fasteners that have solid engagement.

Pozidriv is theoretically more resistant to the driver slipping and rounding the screw head than Phillips (though I don't think the screws themselves seem to be precision made enough for there to be a meaningful difference). I'm finding that a Snap On #3 Phillips screwdriver engages very solidly with Pozidriv #3 screws, so I don't have any worry using it.

It seems like there isn't much desire for torque spec or anything like that - maybe don't fix what ain't broken. These were just curious musings from someone new to the world of skiing.

[nickinbc]

A true weight weenie would glue their bindings to the ski.

[Ted Striker]

I'm partial to sheet metal screws drilled through the basses into the soles.

∞ DIN

[XXX-er]

If there was a torque spec I think there would be less of a problem using fasteners that have solid engagement.

Pozidriv is theoretically more resistant to the driver slipping and rounding the screw head than Phillips (though I don't think the screws themselves seem to be precision made enough for there to be a meaningful difference). I'm finding that a Snap On #3 Phillips screwdriver engages very solidly with Pozidriv #3 screws, so I don't have any worry using it.

It seems like there isn't much desire for torque spec or anything like that - maybe don't fix what ain't broken. These were just curious musings from someone new to the world of skiing.

how would you know the difference if all you have ever used is the rong driver bit ?

git yer dad to take you to a hardware store where you can buy the proper bit

and for godsake pull your pants up

[Jonathan S.]

A true weight weenie would glue their bindings to the ski.

Don't temp me!

[abraham]

Don't temp me!

Swissiphic has already skied with bindings taped to his skis, glue is probably lighter though.