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  1. #1
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    Togwotee Pass fatality

    Snowboarder killed in avalanche, backcountry caution urged

    *2x sigh* I think that's twenty deaths since the start of the month.

    “They built a big jump that landed on the face of a steep ravine,” Lockhart said. “A five foot slide broke loose and buried him at the bottom.”


    https://buckrail.com/avalanche-on-to...f-snowboarder/
    Last edited by sfotex; 02-18-2021 at 07:57 PM.
    When life gives you haters, make haterade.

  2. #2
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    fkn christ.
    "With Hitler, the more I learn about the guy, the more I don't care for him." -Norm Macdonald

  3. #3
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    RIP. Fuck. Will be interesting to see the details from a source that isn't interested in data mining above all else.
    The truth doesn't care about your feelings.

  4. #4
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    Ok, this is ridiculous. Maybe this belongs in the Darwin Award thread.


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  5. #5
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    Tragic. And I'm truly sorry for his friends and family. But judging by that photo and what I'm reading about the snowpack down there.... I would humbly suggest that was not a very well considered idea.

  6. #6
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    I spend a ton of time in this area. The snowload is high and the usual traffic on snow is lower this year up there.
    The weather here rolls over the Tetons and barrels up this pass between the gros ventres and the Absarokas; all within about a 20 mile zone. It's a funnel...

    Major wind and some big snow waves (out of the Sw, West and some Wnw) in the last 2 weeks has loaded the leeward slopes heavily. Leeward being anything from north around to east facing slopes. So launching onto a NE facing slope means landing on a loaded surface.
    Although the avy hazard is reducing well as the season progresses, the potential for huge slides, like the one yesterday just south of the village is still a real concern on big steeper slopes without a grabby surface. That one put a check on a few local first trackers.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by MagnificentUnicorn View Post
    Ok, this is ridiculous. Maybe this belongs in the Darwin Award thread.


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    Thank you for having the gumption to what I was really thinking. HFSS (holy fucking shit, stupid).
    The truth doesn't care about your feelings.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by MagnificentUnicorn View Post
    Ok, this is ridiculous. Maybe this belongs in the Darwin Award thread.


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    Quote Originally Posted by glademaster View Post
    Thank you for having the gumption to what I was really thinking. HFSS (holy fucking shit, stupid).
    i was waiting for someone to say it. oof. what a terrible and terribly stupid way to go.

    +vibes to all affected and respect to the dead but fkna. that was a lil rarded.
    "With Hitler, the more I learn about the guy, the more I don't care for him." -Norm Macdonald

  9. #9
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    It's rad that you guys can call people that died in an accident stupid. This is a public form. Would you tell their Mom that to here face when she asked what happened? Maybe they were stupid maybe they weren't. Maybe I think the same thing. I just don't feel it is appropriate.

    Here is the forecast forecast for that region yesterday https://jhavalanche.org/viewOther?area=tog Moderate with an identified Persistent Slab Problem

  10. #10
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    Hucking into a giant terrain trap on a moderate day with a persistent slab problem is stupid.

    Maybe they didnít read the forecast, maybe they donít know anything about avalanches. Itís still stupid. Sorry if that offends you in a sub forum devoted to the discussion of avalanches and accidents.


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  11. #11
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    Sorry if that offends you in a sub forum devoted to the discussion of avalanches and accidents
    a. not offended

    b. sweet "discussion"

    I'm just one guy with one opinion. Sometimes it's not what you say but how and where you say it. I play the internet like it is real life. If I wouldn't say it to someone's face, I don't say it here. My thought process after a fatality goes something like this.

    Consider their actions and whether or not you or any of your touring partners could have been in that situation. Process my emotions surrounding the event. [internalize and discuss in private with your touring partners]

    Attempt to develop a set of hypothetical errors that COULD have been made and attempt to both learn and teach from those [discuss in public such that I can try to feel like I am helping myself and possibly help others].

    Listen, you do you. I just have a bit of a different agenda. I'm at a stage in my life where I have the energy, time and headspace to try and help people. That hasn't always been the case. So I have a bit of a heightened focus on diffusing the negative energy for the benefit of others.

    We've had a locker room mentality around here since about forever and that's OK. Please understand, however, that family members of avalanche victims do read this forum and have registered and participated previously. So that's is all I'm saying, just assume the the victim's friends and family read what you say.

  12. #12
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    Ok. Maybe when someone does something so obviously stupid or ignorant it needs to be pointed out. Itís not a locker room mentality. Iím tired of seeing things like this happen and all the vibes and treating people like it was unavoidable really doesnít seem to make much of a difference.

    I avoid terrain traps like that like the plague. Some might say pathologically so. Iím not taking a shot cut through that gully even if Iím dog tired. These guys built a kicker so they could huck into it. You call it what you want to. Maybe people need to hear the harsh truth.


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  13. #13
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    I’m tired of seeing things like this happen and all the vibes and treating people like it was unavoidable really doesn’t seem to make much of a difference
    I'm in totally agreement with you. The challenge is to try and figure out how to make a difference. I don't know the Wenatchee scene, only the Oroville scene but what could you do locally? How is your trailhead signage? Does the local media push out the forecast? Do you have an active awareness org that is targeting at risk user groups? Do the gear shops push education and safety equipment?

    Selfishly, I cope best through action. I do it for me. Others cope in different ways.

  14. #14
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    Weíve had all the things you mention for a while to varying degrees. It doesnít seem to make much difference.

    Maybe a little tough love from a personís user group can make a difference. Not much else seems to.

    Anecdotally, I changed my behavior after a long slide for life that almost killed me, based on the consequences and feedback from friends, professionals and partners, who told me I was a dumbshit for skiing where I was. I put four young patrollers at risk to long line my carcass down what was basically a steep hockey rink. Iím not doing that again and I preach to my daughter and friends about the danger of skiing steep hard snow.


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  15. #15
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    You don't have to worry about an avalanche when you are skiing steep hard snow.

  16. #16
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    Maybe a little tough love from a person’s user group can make a difference. Not much else seems to
    I agree with that also. It seems to me that it a pretty giant leap tossing random insults at people immediately following incidents. I wish I knew a bit more about psychology and was more emotionally aware.

    I have no idea what the peer or user group is for those involved in this accident but it certainly seems like a good idea figure that out and try to build a trust relationship. That's where I think pro riders and manufactures and film/content makers could really step up and be the public face of the message.

    The gray beard forecasters and instructors and experienced mentor types and ski patrols and the like have kinda done their thing for a few decades. They (we?), despite best intentions, probably come off like a bunch of Safety Bobs. I think the message is good (generally) but I think the delivery needs a refresh.

  17. #17
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    The initial reactions to the Mill Creek and Silverton/Ophir accidents were akin to, "WTF were those idiots even doing there"?

    As more information was available people began to realize, "hey, that could have been me".

    I think the point FG is trying to make is that maybe it would be best to wait for the full report before you call people names, especially when one just died.
    I have been in this State for 30 years and I am willing to admit that I am part of the problem.

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by BFD View Post
    You don't have to worry about an avalanche when you are skiing steep hard snow.
    Itís an anecdote. I changed my behavior because of negative consequences and feedback.


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  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Foggy_Goggles View Post
    I agree with that also. It seems to me that it a pretty giant leap tossing random insults at people immediately following incidents. I wish I knew a bit more about psychology and was more emotionally aware.

    I have no idea what the peer or user group is for those involved in this accident but it certainly seems like a good idea figure that out and try to build a trust relationship. That's where I think pro riders and manufactures and film/content makers could really step up and be the public face of the message.

    The gray beard forecasters and instructors and experienced mentor types and ski patrols and the like have kinda done their thing for a few decades. They (we?), despite best intentions, probably come off like a bunch of Safety Bobs. I think the message is good (generally) but I think the delivery needs a refresh.
    I had a good mentor starting out, patrol and snow safety director. He was crusty and harsh but the message got through.


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  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bunion 2020 View Post
    The initial reactions to the Mill Creek and Silverton/Ophir accidents were akin to, "WTF were those idiots even doing there"?

    As more information was available people began to realize, "hey, that could have been me".

    I think the point FG is trying to make is that maybe it would be best to wait for the full report before you call people names, especially when one just died.
    People die all the time doing stupid shit. We have an entire thread devoted to it. Does being a snow slider give people a pass?

    I never thought ďThat could have been meĒ after the Wilsonís Glade avalanche. I thought the ridge line was the obvious safer ascent. I was conditioned to not skin the slopes I ski and not to expose myself to hazards on the ascent if avoidable, and if there is unavoidable hazard always expose only one at a time.


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  21. #21
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    Stupid is as stupid does.



    I have no problem telling people that they’re being stupid to their face.

  22. #22
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    I don't know what to tell ya,

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by m2711c View Post
    Stupid is as stupid does.



    I have no problem telling people that they’re being stupid to their face.
    That's fine. If it gives you a warm and fuzzy, good for you. But that approach will do little to get someone to listen to well intentioned advice.

    Besides, the person is already dead so your message falls on dead ears.

    Just like this one, or so it would seem. Carry on then.
    I have been in this State for 30 years and I am willing to admit that I am part of the problem.

  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Foggy_Goggles View Post

    I'm just one guy with one opinion.
    I'm another guy with the same opinion.

    Quote Originally Posted by MagnificentUnicorn
    Maybe a little tough love from a person’s user group can make a difference. Not much else seems to.
    Quote Originally Posted by m2711c
    I have no problem telling people that they’re being stupid to their face.
    I would argue guys are doing neither of the above. I think you're hiding in what you think is a quiet corner of the internet talking shit about someone because they're from a user group you don't understand.

    But hey, if you're as tough as you say you are, and you really think your tough love message is vital to get out there thenhere's his IG, and here's a post about his death that has a huge audience from his user group. Why don't you sack up and take your message there?

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by m2711c View Post
    Stupid is as stupid does.



    I have no problem telling people that they’re being stupid to their face.
    Thanks for inspiring me to do the same. All you stupid fucks calling people names are being stupid and you need to knock it off. It's stupid because it's ineffective at achieving the exact thing you claim to want, which is effective communication.

    I could lay out the case that accident reconstruction and root cause analysis have been practiced and studied for decades. And in that context it's been proven time and again that keeping the questions clinical and not assigning blame while investigating is vital to getting real answers as to how and why people make the decisions they do.

    I mean, I could do that, but now that I've called you a bunch of names all you morons are just defensive about your own stupidity and you wouldn't listen anyway, so why bother?

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