Griffin heels - how to not eject?

[goran]

After swearing off Markers as a kid, I picked up some skis this year with Griffons on them, and I've been back to my old Marker issues. I've come out of the heels three times (on two pairs of skis, no less) with the bindings set at recommended forward pressure and dins of 10.

It can't just be coincidence; I've skied Pivots and other Look/Rossi heels for hundreds of days at 10 since ejecting at the heels. I had gotten to the point of thinking "I must be a smoother skier than I used to be; I used to walk out of bindings all the time and now that never happens." Hah.

Given how little force the releases took, I'm inclined to think forward pressure is implicated here, and don't want to crank up my din if that's not the issue. So first off, does anyone else run their Markers with forward pressure 2-4 clicks tighter than flush? Would that be a reasonable thing to do, or just dumb? Also, do Jesters have the same forward pressure spring or is it more robust (if it's a burlier spring I'd be inclined to swap out to Jesters to reuse the hole pattern)?

Thanks for any advice you can offer.

[tango uniform]

I recently had the same issue after switching to a boot that was only 2mm smaller; 305mm cochuse to 303mm Fischer ranger. That 2mm requires 2 to 3 more clicks fwd to obtain the correct fwd pressure, and as it turns out, that is enough to disengage the worm gear; bummer cuz I love the rangers. You may want to check into all that because I have not come out of any royal family bindings that were adjusted properly.





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[XXX-er]

when i eject at the heels seemingly for no reason I turn the heels up up 1 extra which usually fixes it

so if those bindings go to 11

turn them up 1 louder

[PeachesNCream]

Interesting. I've noticed that dildo style heels like pivots and marker seem to do better as far as heel pre-release when compared to tyrolia and salomon style horizontal spring. But then again maybe that's a theory I came up with in my head. It is pretty common for people to run pivots 1 din lower than with other bindings due to the elasticity preventing pre-release.

I also usually end up running my heels 1 din higher than toes.

[goran]

Thanks, a couple of clarifying points: the forward pressure is currently set such that the adjustment screw is flush with the housing with the boot clicked in. I'm wondering if anyone has gone tighter than that with forward pressure.

My rationale for asking is that the releases I've had have been really low-force, and my din setting is at or above the chart value for 3+. And in past experience I know that one or two mm of forward pressure can make it absurdly easy to walk out of skis... But again, the skis are set to nominal forward pressure settings!

[BC.]

Only advice I can offer as somebody who has skied Jesters on my Volkls for a long time and installed hundreds of Markers over the years...

“some people hate Markers....some people have no issues”....I’ve kinda seen both sides working/testing on them for so long. Every brand has its own idiosyncrasies.

If u think there is a problem...that will stick in your brain and cause FOBO.....

FOBO sucks....sell the Griffons to a Marker lover....and go choose another brand and move forward with confidence in new clamps. Lots of great choices...

If u have/want to keep the Griffons...take em to a good shop and let them “test” them and see if that helps.....or just turn em up a notch as noted upthread...but keep fwd. pressure flush/in a click.

[t-the-east]

Curious, What’s your weight and height?

And yes, on my griffins I’ll get them flush after clicking the boot in and out several times and triple checking, then I’ll do one more click.

[Core Shot]

First question. Why are you falling? JK.

If your just slightly off balance, turn up the heels. Pre release is different than major flail off balance release.

It’s not unusual to run heel din higher than toe. Toe din high can lead to injury. Heel din not as much.
I used to run 10 toes 12 heels.

But you’re din 10 already, which shouldn’t release in normal skiing.

I swore off marker after the biometric prerelease toes. Have ridden since on royal bindings with no issues. But it sucks that you are ejecting.

[goran]

I'm 6', 170lbs, <50yrs, BSL 315mm.

Two of my three ejections happened skiing bumps, and not hard at that. Absolutely should not have come out, wasn't recovering or off balance.

One release was an ejection after landing a small drop too far forward. It's possible I should have come out then and I was significantly off-balance, but I believe my Pivots would not have released, and would have saved me a painful tomahawk.

[riff]

Another possibility: I’ve heard those single pivot heels are more susceptible to spring fatigue if you store them with the din set over the off season. Might check release values.


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[BC.]

I'm 6', 170lbs, <50yrs, BSL 315mm.

Two of my three ejections happened skiing bumps, and not hard at that. Absolutely should not have come out, wasn't recovering or off balance.

One release was an ejection landing after landing a small drop too far forward. It's possible I should have come out then and I was significantly off-balance, but I believe my Pivots would not have released, and would have saved me a painful tomahawk.

Yeah...something is f’d....u shouldn’t be coming out of a 10....boot soles worn/clean? New Griffons?......recent/old/used?

[goran]

Boots old but soles are pristine (religious cat trax usage). Both sets of bindings I've come out of are unknown vintage, a few years old. Came on used skis.

[goran]

Well crap. I just realized the skis I was on today are set at 9, not 10. So that's totally an error on my part (not sure what I was thinking when I adjusted them). I did come out of another pair at 10 as well, but at least my most recent ejection is more understandable.

[XXX-er]

There is a recent thread about binding maintenance and how nobody does it

checking all adjustments & all the fasteners

one should check because the time to remember you lent the skis to yer bro or they borrowed them without telling you half a year ago is not in the p-lot when you do remember you left your screwdriver at home, i also think a lot of broken equipment might be from loose fasteners that let parts flex and flop till they break

[gregL]

Well crap. I just realized the skis I was on today are set at 9, not 10. So that's totally an error on my part (not sure what I was thinking when I adjusted them). I did come out of another pair at 10 as well, but at least my most recent ejection is more understandable.

Check the condition of your boot heels. I have seen several cases of softer (usually Grilamid) boots where the heel was so chewed up by Marker Royal Family bindings as to compromise retention . . .

[Core Shot]

I would crank the heels before cranking forward pressure.

10 toes. 12 heels.

You might even drop lower in the toes. The toe is usually what saves your leg/knee. Heels? Meh.

[XXX-er]

I'm going to go ahead and assume buddy checked all that shit before altering release values but he didnt

IME I have to run any AT boot in any AT binding frame or tech 1 DIN or 1 DIN like mark higher in the heel to stop prerelease i assume because of the Vibram sole

because the heel of a plastic DIN sole in the same FR+ or Baron does not need to be jacked up 1 higher

[noslow]

Another cause for pre-releases on Marker and Tyrolia bindings is a low AFD on the toe allowing for too much slack.

What you have to do to test the height is to put a business card under the ski boot toe above the AFD pad with the business card sticking out so you can still grab it and click in the boot.
Then you pull back on the ski boot cuff HARD like you’re trying to wheelie the toe and while doing that, try and pull out the business card. The card should resist while you’re trying pulling it out.
Some techs seem to miss the “wheelie the toe” step to eliminate slack step before adjusting the AFD.