So when do we talk about opening up some new ski areas?

[CnRzG]

closed minded and biased much?

Yup... you would think from some of these jongarific climate deniers that we didn't need a healthy environment and sane climate policy for skiing.

[toast2266]

People are saying that no savvy investor would ever sink money into a resort with climate change on the horizon. But climate change strikes me as the exact reason why a ski resort would be a good investment.

Tons of the existing, popular, profitable ski areas are going to take a beating from climate change over the next 50 years. Build an accessible resort in an area that will have minimal effects from climate change and you'll be able to pull a whole lot of ski vacationers from all of the resorts with less reliable snow packs. Finding the right location wouldn't be easy, but it might leave you as one of the last viable resorts in the game, and that's worth some serious money.

It seems like Valemount isn't too far off from that idea.

[Ottime]

For example, The Resort Formally Known As Squaw.

Base of KT is 6200’ and it’s pretty far south and close to the ocean.

[NBABUCKS1]

idk if it has been covered here but does anyone know how the finances of ikon/epic work for resorts that are not owned by vail or alterrra?

For example Snowbasin. Independently owned. Part of Epic

Does vail pay snowbasin a one time fee to bring unlimited guests there? Or does vail issue an initial check, then at the end of the year based on riders they issue a check for say x/$ a rider/day? I would assume Snowbasin is not paying vail for this privilege (with hopes they make it up in food and bev?)?

Same with Ikon to say Alta. Does Alterra/Ikon pay Alta a one time fee or is based on the number users?

[char_]

Turner Mountain Montana is a great blueprint for what should be scattered across the Cascades (and other ranges) many times over. Locally run smaller ski areas that are treated as a public benefit and a positive for the community.

1.) some cut runs, lots of glading.
2.) Small lodge and minimal infrastructure.
3.)1 Riblet chair that accesses tons of great terrain and 2k vert of great skiing.
4.)support from the local town, businesses and county.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turn...ain_Ski_Resort

https://www.skiturner.com/

There are a few places like this in Oregon as well, but they aren’t near a major metro area, so don’t have the user base by default.

It seems like the problem with the resorts people are complaining about is that they are proximate to a major metro area, so by default will always be busy. This strikes me as the “build more highway lanes” argument. I bet if you built a new ski area anywhere near where the current demand is they would just fill up as well. The issue is the ownership not managing demand appropriately, which would seem to be something you could petition the USFS about.

Smaller hills across the west are often not busy, but don’t offer much in that way of variety, infrastructure, job market, etc. You can ski on to the lift most days at these places, but the drive time dissuades most people.

[summit]

Yup... you would think from some of these jongarific climate deniers that we didn't need a healthy environment and sane climate policy for skiing.

My opinions are some from my own readings but largely derived from detailed explanations from my highly educated other half whose entire professional life has been spent ensuring responsible environmental protection and reclamation, including federal and state permitting.

Pointing out the the easily perverted power imbalance of the federal environmental approval and permitting system that you made your living exploiting does not make me a climate denier. See? I can sling ad homs too. STFU you fucking JONG!

[CnRzG]

My opinions are some from my own readings but largely derived from detailed explanations from my highly educated other half whose entire professional life has been spent ensuring responsible environmental protection and reclamation, including federal and state permitting.

Pointing out the the easily perverted power imbalance of the federal environmental approval and permitting system that you made your living exploiting does not make me a climate denier. See? I can sling ad homs too. STFU you fucking JONG!

I never made a cent as a Timber Sale monitor. It was all volunteer. So there's that. Keep being closed/small minded. And enjoy slinging insults via your keyboard. It doesn't bother me. Exploitation is the wanton destruction of the environment. Skiers should be stewards and advocates. The people who are perverting the system are the ones who are taking away regulations and fast tracking bullshit on public lands. But I get it jong me. I don't care.

[raisingarizona13]

If climate change continues on the path already somewhat observable I foresee more strict reservation policies being implemented and prices skyrocketing as the demand increases and the availability for the more sure fire snow producers decreases. The working man/woman skier will likely become an endangered species and skiing will be left for the elite wealthy much more then it already is. I know I'm not alone in already feeling this way.

I'm at 45 years old and feel pretty content with how much skiing I've already done in my life so I'm not personally concerned by that but it sucks for our kids that are already in love with the sport.

Overall not being able to go skiing is a first world problem at it's finest. A lot of MF-ers out there are simply trying to keep a job and their kids fed.

[Leshphilling77]

idk if it has been covered here but does anyone know how the finances of ikon/epic work for resorts that are not owned by vail or alterrra?

For example Snowbasin. Independently owned. Part of Epic

Does vail pay snowbasin a one time fee to bring unlimited guests there? Or does vail issue an initial check, then at the end of the year based on riders they issue a check for say x/$ a rider/day? I would assume Snowbasin is not paying vail for this privilege (with hopes they make it up in food and bev?)?

Same with Ikon to say Alta. Does Alterra/Ikon pay Alta a one time fee or is based on the number users?

To my understanding VR or Alterra pays the partner mountain a certain amount per skier/ rider visit.

[Whiteroom_Guardian]

As much as it's a hard pill to swallow even a $2500 season pass would still mean skiing for $50 to 60 a day for local people. Maybe it will go that way. IDK. Still worth it to me.

Some people have boats that cost them $10,000 a year in fuel alone, etc.

[paulster2626]

As much as it's a hard pill to swallow even a $2500 season pass would still mean skiing for $50 to 60 a day for local people. Maybe it will go that way. IDK. Still worth it to me.

Some people have boats that cost them $10,000 a year in fuel alone, etc.

For a family of 4 though, that's insane.

[old goat]

THE REASON THERE WON'T BE ANY MORE NEW SKI AREAS IS BECAUSE OF ALL YOU -GREENPEACE IN DRAG- DUMB CUNTS SUPPORT HUGE OPPOSITION GROUPS. SO WHY YOU MORONS WAIT IN LINE FOR AN HOUR ON YOUR NEXT POWDER DAY WITH TENS OF THOUSANDS OF OTHER POW STICKER WEARING D-BAGS, UNDERSTAND YOU ARE THE REASON YOU'RE NOT AT A NEW SILVERTON TYPE AREA INSTEAD. YOU'RE NO DIFFERENT THAN THE MORONS THAT LIVE IN OLD MINING TOWNS TURNED SKI TOWNS THAT COMPLAIN ABOUT MINING. YOUR "SHIT DON'T STINK" ATTITUDES DON'T COVER UP THE SMELL OF SHIT.

JS used to be good for a laugh or two, but after 4 years of you know who that shtick has worn thin.

[hatchgreenchile]

Seven Utes was floated as a potential ski area, but that fizzled out decades ago.

I've got my "one lift and a bootpack" location picked out. It's on regular ol' USFS land with seasonal road access. Primarily NE aspect. 2400' vert between 9600' and 12000'. Decent snowfall. Advanced and expert terrain only. Send me your investment and I'll start the process. We'll see if I can make it past "Lynx habitat".

[Ottime]

As much as it's a hard pill to swallow even a $2500 season pass would still mean skiing for $50 to 60 a day for local people. Maybe it will go that way. IDK. Still worth it to me.

Some people have boats that cost them $10,000 a year in fuel alone, etc.

Great plan. I mean, fuck everyone who is not rich. Amirite?

[AdironRider]

You know who has literally zero basis on this thread so take it to one of the 100 others concerning him that consume this board daily.

In terms of climate change, I think most of us will still see plenty of skiing at all the areas we currently frequent, outside of maybe some areas in the mid-atlantic or southwest that will go belly up. Whether it is exactly the same, cant remember if it was here or another thread about how Steamboat snow is different now, who knows, it will still be skiing.

But this concept of basically saying fuck it to the local and just catering to the rich clients who ski 4-5 days a year and charging them a premium, well that scares me. At a certain point though, it hurts the brand of any ski area to basically only be open for a minimal amount of time. You need to be open and providing stoke, even for finance bros to drool over, otherwise they just won't come eventually. What that exact balance is, I hope we never find out.

[Bunion 2020]

Skiers should be stewards and advocates.

While that may be true, anyone who pays attention will have to admit that 99% of all ski RESORTS are none of those things.

@AR, while the areas that are currently in operation will remain viable for our lives provided they have sufficient elevation and are far enough north and have a favorable aspect, I think we can say goodbye to most of the smaller ski areas in the Midwest as well.

And then there are the areas like Taos or AZ Snowbowl etc. Unless they invest heavily in snow making they are hosed. Not so much from the lack of snow as much as the lack of consistency of snow coverage.

Your 3rd point is well taken.

[concretejungle]

Great plan. I mean, fuck everyone who is not rich. Amirite?

I mean he's a dirt pimp so...

[summit]

@AR, while the areas that are currently in operation will remain viable for our lives provided they have sufficient elevation and are far enough north and have a favorable aspect, I think we can say goodbye to most of the smaller ski areas in the Midwest as well.

And then there are the areas like Taos or AZ Snowbowl etc. Unless they invest heavily in snow making they are hosed. Not so much from the lack of snow as much as the lack of consistency of snow coverage.

There was a good talk about this at CSAW or ISSW or I can't remember with modeling showing how much seasons could shortened under different warming scenarios over the next decades. Even moderate warming scenarios would certainly kill midwest resorts and many in the NE. Many resorts would be near completely reliant on snowmaking to ensure opening in time for the money making holidays.

ETA I went to find the guys paper, but he actually has a kickass blog that covers this in detail: https://blogs.ubc.ca/michaelpidwirny/

Current


4.5C warming


Worst case scenario

[Whiteroom_Guardian]

I mean he's a dirt pimp so...

It's not a "plan" it's a potential reality. Weren't season passes that expensive to some mountains 20+ years ago before Epic, etc? Those same hills had like 1/4 the skier numbers and it was "the good old days".

You can either have less skiers and more expensive passes or more skiers and continue the cheap mega pass system.

[Bunion 2020]

Thanks for that link. Not the news though.

It's not a "plan" it's a potential reality. Weren't season passes that expensive to some mountains 20+ years ago before Epic, etc? Those same hills had like 1/4 the skier numbers and it was "the good old days".

You can either have less skiers and more expensive passes or more skiers and continue the cheap mega pass system.

And that could be why we now have such a consolidation in the ski industry that led to this very thing (Mega Passes). Just a guess.

[k2skier112]

New ski areas stopped being built long before AGW was even a thing

[Bunion 2020]

Its a thing? Depends on who you ask.

[gretch6364]

It's not a "plan" it's a potential reality. Weren't season passes that expensive to some mountains 20+ years ago before Epic, etc? Those same hills had like 1/4 the skier numbers and it was "the good old days".

You can either have less skiers and more expensive passes or more skiers and continue the cheap mega pass system.

I am 100% for expensive adult ski passes. Keep the kids free or cheap, but if it is a quality area, it should cost $1500 plus for a pass.


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[JONG SLAUGHTER]

JS used to be good for a laugh or two, but after 4 years of you know who that shtick has worn thin.

YOU KNOW WHO USED TO BE GOOD FOR A LAUGH? DEFINITELY NOT OLD SCROTE. GO DOUCHE YOUR COCK GARAGE OUT WITH SOME PATCHOULI OIL.

[yeahman]

Lol