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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
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    BCA Airbag comparing to others - any reason why not BCA?

    Since I'm not a dentist nor a trust fund baby, cost effectiveness is what I mostly go by. BCA seems to be most dollar effective on 'paper'. I considered the Black Diamond one because its design does not use compressed air. Any strong reason NOT go with BCA?

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Location
    7B Idaho
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    873
    If you are OK with a canister bag and the specific features then the answer is 'no' there is apparently not any reason for you not to go with BCA. But electric bags seem to be the future and have some notable benefits.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Location
    PDX
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    Go with the pack that fits you comfortably and has the features you want. If the BCA checks those boxes, go for it. Personally I have preferred the design of Mammut packs (fit, pocket location, size, weight). But that’s all personal preference.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Oct 2003
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    In Your Wife
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    Personally, I would only purchase a fan-driven airbag pack. What's a few hundred dollars when it comes to a piece of durable (5-10 year functional lifespan, depending on use), potentially life-saving equipment?

    They're easier to travel with, easier to practice with/test fire, and the auto-deflate feature that the BD/Pieps fan packs have is (IMO) worth the extra cost in and of itself.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    Winthrop, WA.
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    1,591
    I'm with samski, pay attention to fit. I had one of the v1 BCA 32's and while it was a fine pack it was a little heavy and didn't hang on my shoulders very well. It wasn't bad but it was something I kept noticing throughout the day. After a while I found myself having internal debates every morning trying to justify taking one of my other non-airbag packs that was lighter and noticeably more comfortable. Pretty soon I realized that I was practicing high level dumb-fuckery so made a change. Went to an Ortovox avabag and it just hangs back there without being noticed. I'd say you should go try on a bunch and shoot for the one that's the most comfortable and holds all you shit where you need it. Lot's of used ones showing up here for significantly less than retail

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Oct 2003
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    In Your Wife
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    I consider an airbag pack to be in the same category as helmets/climbing harnesses: it's an item that should only be purchased new, from a reputable retailer or manufacturer direct.

    No way in hell am I going to take someone's word on how they treated a piece of equipment (or what condition it is in) that could potentially save my life.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    Hell Track
    Posts
    13,841
    Quote Originally Posted by glademaster View Post
    Personally, I would only purchase a fan-driven airbag pack. What's a few hundred dollars when it comes to a piece of durable (5-10 year functional lifespan, depending on use), potentially life-saving equipment?

    They're easier to travel with, easier to practice with/test fire, and the auto-deflate feature that the BD/Pieps fan packs have is (IMO) worth the extra cost in and of itself.
    X2.

    I have a BCA that I almost never use. At least around me, getting canister refills is a pain in the ass, and kind of expensive. And traveling with it is also a pain in the ass.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
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    6490'
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    194
    Quote Originally Posted by toast2266 View Post
    X2.

    I have a BCA that I almost never use. At least around me, getting canister refills is a pain in the ass, and kind of expensive. And traveling with it is also a pain in the ass.
    Thanks all for your advice and insight. I will definition go try on for proper/comfortable fit, with a simulated load. Better to get the right one that I use all the time than buying twice.

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Oct 2017
    Location
    Evergreen Co
    Posts
    969
    Construction of BCA packs is... fine. The whole form and function just isn’t as dialed as a lot of the other options and they seem to be a little more prone to failure.

    Mammut makes great canister bags.

    I just got an Osprey Solden. Im a huge fan. Much nicer than canister bags for the reasons listed above and more usable space than the Black Diamond 40 liter bags. There is a new one for sale in gearswap.

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    Sun Valley, ID
    Posts
    2,527
    Quote Originally Posted by Tailwind View Post
    Construction of BCA packs is... fine. The whole form and function just isn’t as dialed as a lot of the other options and they seem to be a little more prone to failure.

    Mammut makes great canister bags.

    I just got an Osprey Solden. Im a huge fan. Much nicer than canister bags for the reasons listed above and more usable space than the Black Diamond 40 liter bags. There is a new one for sale in gearswap.
    Fuck me $1200 retail! Wow. That’s fucking Yeti blind territory.

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Sep 2018
    Posts
    2,667
    Very satisfied with my float 42.


    Sent from my SM-G981U using Tapatalk

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
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    Access to Granlibakken
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    11,184
    Quote Originally Posted by glademaster View Post
    Personally, I would only purchase a fan-driven airbag pack. What's a few hundred dollars when it comes to a piece of durable (5-10 year functional lifespan, depending on use), potentially life-saving equipment?

    They're easier to travel with, easier to practice with/test fire, and the auto-deflate feature that the BD/Pieps fan packs have is (IMO) worth the extra cost in and of itself.
    Yeah fan driven is the future. So glad I went that route last year.

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
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    6490'
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    194
    Quote Originally Posted by frorider View Post
    Yeah fan driven is the future. So glad I went that route last year.
    Continue researching. The BD Jetforce Tour is intriguing. ' ..rapid-discharging, capacitor-based Alpride E1 system'. It's $$$, but like the wise ones said earlier, fit and function is worth the money, especially when you look at it as a 10 - 15 year service life. At least BD has two different sizes for me to go try for fit.

  14. #14
    Join Date
    Oct 2017
    Location
    Evergreen Co
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    969
    Yeah... it’s crazy how expensive these things are. I didn’t pay retail but still wasn’t excited to shell out the money. That’s where my ski money went this year.

    I tend to use things like this a long time. Some gear I replace often other stuff I cling to until it’s dead. The pack this replaced that sees normal touring use for single day trips has been around since 2012. I think I have 300+ days of skiing on that particular pack and I’m hopeful I can replicate that in this bag.

    I paid a couple hundred extra dollars for the Oprey over a BCA bag. Once you favor in better quality, better carrying, better tech it made sense for 60-70 cents per day of skiing.... if you add in no canister refill costs, which assuming you test deploy (or travel) a couple times a year it might end up being cheaper over the lifetime of ownership.

    Cost of ownership is a factor with packs like this. The Black Diamond system using the single use cylinders is compact and light but I don’t love the environmental side of that and at $50 per refill that’s $100 per year use cost assuming you deploy once per year as a in the field test and once pre-season just to get it setup for the year. That adds up over 5-7 years.

    Quote Originally Posted by CaliBrit View Post
    Fuck me $1200 retail! Wow. That’s fucking Yeti blind territory.

  15. #15
    Join Date
    Jan 2014
    Location
    Swiss alps -> Bozone,MT
    Posts
    671
    For me the nr one factor (ok besides fit) is weight. I tour a lot and with the Mammut light 30 there is just no argument not to bring the avy bag. Only in spring do I swap to a non avy bag.
    Had a BCA previously that was great but heavy as fuck and for longer tours I would always be debating whether to take it or not. That is now solved.
    Last time i looked most BD fan packs were heavy as fuck. May be different with the capacitor tech now, dunno.

  16. #16
    Join Date
    Feb 2015
    Posts
    226
    Quote Originally Posted by smooth operator View Post
    Last time i looked most BD fan packs were heavy as fuck. May be different with the capacitor tech now, dunno.
    Mammut light 30 - 2430g
    Scott Patrol E1 30 - 2670g

    Delta - 240g

  17. #17
    Join Date
    Jan 2016
    Posts
    23
    Quote Originally Posted by CG_#3 View Post
    Continue researching. The BD Jetforce Tour is intriguing. ' ..rapid-discharging, capacitor-based Alpride E1 system'. It's $$$, but like the wise ones said earlier, fit and function is worth the money, especially when you look at it as a 10 - 15 year service life. At least BD has two different sizes for me to go try for fit.
    Just a note about the lifespan of these products:

    "The JetForce PRO System is certified for 50 full deployments. With normal useand proper care the typical lifespan of a JetForce PRO Backpack is five years.The actual lifespan can be longer or shorter depending on how frequently youuse it and on the conditions of its use. The maximum lifespan of a JetForce PROBackpack is up to 10 years from the date of manufacture, even if unused andproperly stored."

    Source

  18. #18
    Join Date
    Feb 2015
    Posts
    226
    "The E1 is certified for 50 inflations. We have to make 100 inflations for certify 50, thus proving a good engineering safety margin. Better, we have a sample of the E1 system in testing for months and have done 10,000 inflations (without backpack) without any problems or undue wear, unbelievable. "

    https://www.wildsnow.com/23972/alpri...airbag-review/

  19. #19
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
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    Sun Valley, ID
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    2,527
    Quote Originally Posted by aanev View Post
    Mammut light 30 - 2430g
    Scott Patrol E1 30 - 2670g

    Delta - 240g
    That’s with carbon cartridge right? Can US people even get these and get them filled?

  20. #20
    Join Date
    Feb 2015
    Posts
    226
    Quote Originally Posted by CaliBrit View Post
    That’s with carbon cartridge right? Can US people even get these and get them filled?
    Yes, with (non-refillable) carbon cartridge. The aluminium cartridge adds 300 grams giving the advantage to Scott Patrol E1.

    Edit: Carbon cartridges are not available in the USA.

  21. #21
    Join Date
    Oct 2003
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    In Your Wife
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    8,291
    Quote Originally Posted by CaliBrit View Post
    Fuck me $1200 retail! Wow. That’s fucking Yeti blind territory.
    You're going to complain about a $1200 price tag on an airbag pack? Really? How much money to spend on other gear that truly has no bearing on whether or not you might survive a day of skiing? How much money do you spend on skiing in a given year? $1200 is half the cost of a season pass.

    I don't make shit for money compared to most people here, but $1200 still only represents a fraction of what I spend on skiing each year.

    Like ZipFits and Nokian snow tires, airbag pack pricing isn't worth debating. It is what it is and it is worth it. They're niche products that are more than worth what they cost to the right end user.

  22. #22
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    Dec 2009
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    Sun Valley, ID
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    Quote Originally Posted by aanev View Post
    Yes, with (non-refillable) carbon cartridge. The aluminium cartridge adds 300 grams giving the advantage to Scott Patrol E1.

    Edit: Carbon cartridges are not available in the USA.
    140 euros and not refillable....ok!

  23. #23
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Location
    Summit Park UT
    Posts
    1,096
    Quote Originally Posted by aanev View Post
    Yes, with (non-refillable) carbon cartridge. The aluminium cartridge adds 300 grams giving the advantage to Scott Patrol E1.

    Edit: Carbon cartridges are not available in the USA.
    No, the Light Removable 30 with a Carbon Cartridge is 2190 grams

    Mammut website - "Weight with airbag system and carbon cartridge [g]2190"
    Skimo.co site "Weight convert to ounces 2414g [pack with airbag and full canister]"

    The Light Removable 30, even with the aluminum cartridge/canister, is lighter than almost anything else out there.

  24. #24
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    Sun Valley, ID
    Posts
    2,527

    BCA Airbag comparing to others - any reason why not BCA?

    Quote Originally Posted by glademaster View Post
    You're going to complain about a $1200 price tag on an airbag pack? Really? How much money to spend on other gear that truly has no bearing on whether or not you might survive a day of skiing? How much money do you spend on skiing in a given year? $1200 is half the cost of a season pass.

    I don't make shit for money compared to most people here, but $1200 still only represents a fraction of what I spend on skiing each year.

    Like ZipFits and Nokian snow tires, airbag pack pricing isn't worth debating. It is what it is and it is worth it. They're niche products that are more than worth what they cost to the right end user.
    Scraped together the $700 for the original Float in 2011, swapped it out for the new lighter version in 15 for about $100 with some good buying and selling.

    Haven’t looked at prices since then, I know it’s new tech here but the expectation was this stuff would get cheaper!

    It’s a blower and a balloon! Yeah yeah production volume yadi yah. But really it’s “We sell out of these and the new BC crew will pay ANYTHING!”

    I mean for the weight and convenience of not dealing with canisters I certainly am now. But sticker shock was real!

  25. #25
    Join Date
    Feb 2015
    Posts
    226
    Quote Originally Posted by wilcox510 View Post
    No, the Light Removable 30 with a Carbon Cartridge is 2190 grams

    Mammut website - "Weight with airbag system and carbon cartridge [g]2190"
    Skimo.co site "Weight convert to ounces 2414g [pack with airbag and full canister]"

    The Light Removable 30, even with the aluminum cartridge/canister, is lighter than almost anything else out there.
    You are right. I was comparing it with Light Protection Airbag 3.0.

    The smaller Scott E1 22l is 2450g.

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