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  1. #76
    Join Date
    Oct 2017
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    Quote Originally Posted by SoVT Joey View Post
    i did grow up racing on pivots, all the way through the academy. I have more control, better feel, better turn initiation, and a damper ride on markers. They work for me physiologically better due to the delta and with the ramp of a lange it’s perfect for me. I am 100% balanced standing in bindings on skis with knees flexed.
    The main takeaway for me last season was how much better I ski with pivots / low delta bindings and upright stance boots.

    I remounted a pair of woodsman116s from shifts to pivots to sth16s, and with the former and latter it was like I could not ski the ski - the tails felt overly stiff, while they were easy as can be with pivots. I had the same experiene with Woodsman102/110s, Tectons and Hawx XTDs -> I couldn't make them work for the life of me. The Tecton/Hawx combo worked well for me when I primarily skied Shifts on my resort skis with the same boots, but the difference was too big after moving to Lange/Pivots.

    I remember mr Ellsworth somewhat smugly harping on about how nobody in the binding round table discussion at the Blister Summit mentioned binding delta as something they were even mindful of - supposedly proving what I assume to be his point of delta being something people whine about on forums, but not something that factors into how people are able to ski. What utter fucking nonsense. And glasses are only for people who are not trying hard enough eh?

    So, I would not be terribly surprised if moving back a cm and shifting to Pivots will transform how they ski. It would for me, at my short bsl at 293 (aka short bsl, delta matters more = larger angle change).

  2. #77
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
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    The Chicken Coop, Seattle
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    2,994
    Interesting. Iím 306mm and sensitive enough to binding ramp that I shim my tecton toes.

    Also my urrakkarís have pivots
    wait!!!! waitwaitwaitwaitwaitwaitwaitwait...Wait!
    Zoolander wasn't a documentary?

  3. #78
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
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    All of this is making me feel even better about skiing demo bindings. I think I could probably get used to various binding deltas of different bindings, but if different delta affects the ideal mount location, why would I confine myself to my first guess of mount location?

    And I can feel the difference in 0.5cm of mount point.

    Sent from my SM-A536W using Tapatalk
    Goal: ski in the 2018/19 season

  4. #79
    Join Date
    Jan 2020
    Location
    Danby
    Posts
    1,651
    All of you guys are spot on with what I was driving at. Physiology is the main factor when choosing boots and bindings. The best tell for me was, as insane as this sounds, was putting my boots on, clicking into my bindings on my carpet in the living room with a mirror to my side. I stood in position that my setup was putting me in and took notes on my athletic stance. While in that stance you should be the most balanced, if you feel off balance itís time to start tweaking. You can change you ramp with strips of duck tape on the toe/heel to start to drive your stance. A strip of regular duck tape is about 1mm. You should also be able to be pushed by someone while you are in your skis on flat ground and barely be effected or have the ability to catch your balance quickly.

  5. #80
    Join Date
    Aug 2021
    Posts
    183
    This is super interesting. First time I noticed the effect of delta was clicking into Duke PT12s (P15s on everything else); they felt like they were mounted (ballpark) a cm further forward.
    Much like MTB fit, while one can get used to anything, as it turns out, ergonomics matter.
    -Signed, un amateur (in my best French accent)

    Edit to add: Going from a Doberman Pro to a Lange XT Free to a Lupo was also pretty eye opening, and the first time I was on the Lupo/P15 combo I felt like I was standing straight up. One serendipitous benefit to being that upright for me is it makes skis feel bigger, which at my size (6í2/205) isnít a bad thing as I can still bend em from that stance, and it brings me slightly further from the extreme end of the ski size spectrum (to say nothing about which forward lean/ramp/delta combo actually optimizes my skiing, cause, no ideeír there.)
    Last edited by Sylvan; 10-02-2022 at 12:45 PM. Reason: Un-fucked my terminology

  6. #81
    Join Date
    Oct 2017
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    1,839
    Quote Originally Posted by SupreChicken View Post
    Interesting. I’m 306mm and sensitive enough to binding ramp that I shim my tecton toes.

    Also my urrakkar’s have pivots
    yeah, I have been putting off shiming the skis I have mounted with vipecs / tectons

    and to be clear - I am thinking the main factor that can change how they feel is ramp angle, not the mount point - though going back a cm can't hurt.

    To be fair, I am an old football / soccer player, so about as flexible and nimble as a 2x4. My relative lack of mobility is rather pathetic really. If you are more able to bend your joints from your hips down then ramp angle might not be as big of a factor as it is for me.

  7. #82
    Join Date
    Oct 2003
    Location
    closer
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    4,765
    Quote Originally Posted by powpig View Post
    Sure, I'll chime in on that.
    I've gotta pair of the Rocker 2 122 184 for my early season rock pow skis that I picked up to replace my thrashed and worn out 2013 183 Chetlers.

    I got a pair of the 1st year Revolt 121 184 to use as my main pow skis. I'm not sure exactly where I mounted but it's more back and traditional than a new school center mount.
    Had a great time on 'em up in BC & Colorado in Jan 2020 but don't think I used 'em once in the crappy 20-21 Tahoe winter.
    Last year in the big Christmas storm cycle, for me they ski'd great in the untracked but found I didn't really like 'em once it was tracked. I started grabbing the Rocker 2s, found them to be easier, more versatile and preferred them to the Revolts. I'm not a big guy and will be 60 next year so some of this might be my lazy old man preferences.
    Thanks. I like the rocker 2 versatility and yet they are stable at speed. My favorite ski so far.
    It's a war of the mind and we're armed to the teeth.

  8. #83
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
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    Quote Originally Posted by subtle plague View Post
    Thanks. I like the rocker 2 versatility and yet they are stable at speed. My favorite ski so far.
    That entire line are good skis and underrated IMO.

    I still regularly ski a rocker 2 100 and the smaller sized rocker 2 122 (180 cm). Very versatile skis.

    Sent from my SM-A536W using Tapatalk
    Goal: ski in the 2018/19 season

  9. #84
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Location
    North Vancouver, BC
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    1,580
    Corbetts has last year 121 Revolts marked down to $527 CDN ($390US). 184 and 177 avail.


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  10. #85
    Join Date
    Oct 2003
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    Lapping the pow with the GSA in the PNW
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    4,694
    Quote Originally Posted by kc_7777 View Post
    Corbetts has last year 121 Revolts marked down to $527 CDN ($390US). 184 and 177 avail.


    Sent from my iPhone using TGR Forums
    Thatís why I was asking about the 184 a few weeks back. Solid deals if those are your size.
    In constant pursuit of the perfect slarve...

  11. #86
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Location
    North Vancouver, BC
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    1,580
    Quote Originally Posted by Bandit Man View Post
    Thatís why I was asking about the 184 a few weeks back. Solid deals if those are your size.
    I think theyíve come down even more in price since two weeks ago? Iím stoked on my Revolts for the coming season. Canít wait for snow.


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  12. #87
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    Oct 2008
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    Quote Originally Posted by kc_7777 View Post
    I think theyíve come down even more in price since two weeks ago? Iím stoked on my Revolts for the coming season. Canít wait for snow.


    Sent from my iPhone using TGR Forums
    If you want to try my rocker2 122 (actually 115 in the 180cm size I have ) you are welcome to them if we meet up on the powder highway. Have demo bindings and currently at -6cm from center... So right up your alley.

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    Goal: ski in the 2018/19 season

  13. #88
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Location
    North Vancouver, BC
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shorty_J View Post
    If you want to try my rocker2 122 (actually 115 in the 180cm size I have ) you are welcome to them if we meet up on the powder highway. Have demo bindings and currently at -6cm from center... So right up your alley.
    Sent from my SM-A536W using Tapatalk
    Hey Shorty,

    We're planning on the Powder Hwy Feb 17 - 26, 2023 this year? Hope to make it to Fernie? Red and Whitewater seem to get most of our days on that trip. And we have family with a place in Whitefish, MT....so there and Schweitzer, ID may get some days. Snow will dictate where we go. Also hitting Whitewater Dec 26 - Jan 3 to get away from the Whistler Xmas crowds.

    PS I've never skied a Salomon Rocker 115....thanks for the offer! But as I have 6 new skis this year it may be tough to try others (4RNT Hojis, Volkl Revolt 121s and 104s, Season Nexus and Bentchetler 110s and 120s are all new to me). Have recently sold the Line Blades, Salomon Blanks, Nomad 115s, Enforcer 104s, Proto 118s, M-Free 99s and Rustler 11s....all very good skis that I was sad to see go.

    Hope to ski with you one day!

    K
    _________________________________________________
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  14. #89
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Location
    North Vancouver, BC
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    Click image for larger version. 

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    -3.5cm with STH.

    Canít wait to get on these. Hopefully next week


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  15. #90
    Join Date
    Oct 2003
    Location
    Lapping the pow with the GSA in the PNW
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    Quote Originally Posted by kc_7777 View Post
    Click image for larger version. 

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    -3.5cm with STH.

    Can’t wait to get on these. Hopefully next week


    Sent from my iPhone using TGR Forums
    Those do look great! I think they'll look even better on snow. Looking forward to your forthcoming review.
    In constant pursuit of the perfect slarve...

  16. #91
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Posts
    536
    2024/2025 Revolt 96 and 114 in Volkl thread.

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