The Bootfitter’s Thread

[skisurfmirth]

GoldenBC had a friend fab up a toe length cup/ball for a lever press. Could PM him for details. I’ve had the same friend weld some improvements to my home boot press and other projects as he is a welding wizard.


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[GoldenBC]

Anyone know where to get the piece that can go on the bottom of the boot to keep it straight while toe punching? Or any thoughts on getting one made?

From gregs lovely blog:
]

Check my OP in this thread.
This works amazing. You can do a centimetre deep punch in five minutes. Really heat up the toe but cover the lugs and the rest of the shell. I even ice the lug after heating. On a Kaiser press, this can do some serious damage, so be careful.

My next version will have a cat track type metal soul that clicks on the boot with a super round toe lug that will match the curve on the punch cup. This will make it a little easier to punch at a 45° angle and less likely to distort the boot sole or dent the lug

[gregL]

Check my OP in this thread.
This works amazing. You can do a centimetre deep punch in five minutes. Really heat up the toe but cover the lugs and the rest of the shell. I even ice the lug after heating. On a Kaiser press, this can do some serious damage, so be careful.

My next version will have a cat track type metal soul that clicks on the boot with a super round toe lug that will match the curve on the punch cup. This will make it a little easier to punch at a 45° angle and less likely to distort the boot sole or dent the lug

Let me know, I would chip in to have him make another for me.

[mr_pretzel]

Let me know, I would chip in to have him make another for me.

I will also join in on this if I can

Thanks a lot guys!

[gregL]

I actually have a similar project going - I gave some diagrams of prototype tools to a welder/fabricator guy I know. The toe length punch attachment looked like the front of Barry Allison's, but shorter with tabs that wrapped around the sole and with sharp thumb screws on the sides to hold the plate to the boot. The guy had some health problems and kind of fell off the radar, though.

[arild]

Nonsense post. Please delete.

[GoldenBC]

I'll get drawing and talking. Realistically these probably wouldnt be made until the fall.

[natebob]

Does anyone have a discount code for Masterfit University in Denver?

[gregL]

Does anyone have a discount code for Masterfit University in Denver?

They have pro pricing? Isn't everyone there in the business already? Take what they say with a grain of salt - they have plenty of ideas that take 5 times as long, like taking the Strobel sole off the liner and slotting it to widen it, then gluing it back on, or bolting the sole of the boot to a board to do a toe length punch. That's fine if you are charging by the hour and your customer has deep pockets. Also, they are in business to try to sell Masterfit's footbed and accessories program (good stuff, but not the only game in town), not necessarily teach you how to use what you already have.

[natebob]

They have pro pricing? Isn't everyone there in the business already? Take what they say with a grain of salt - they have plenty of ideas that take 5 times as long, like taking the Strobel sole off the liner and slotting it to widen it, then gluing it back on, or bolting the sole of the boot to a board to do a toe length punch. That's fine if you are charging by the hour and your customer has deep pockets. Also, they are in business to try to sell Masterfit's footbed and accessories program (good stuff, but not the only game in town), not necessarily teach you how to use what you already have.

I don't know if they have pro pricing, but when I went to sign up, there was a place to enter a discount code at checkout, so thought I'd ask. I have never heard about a code for their classes, maybe there is one for first time attendees... Copy that on their angle. Thanks Greg.

[Yukonrider]

I tried to find the other boot thread but scrolled back 6 pages and only found this one, so here goes:

I am looking for a dedicated touring boot, I feel I have tried on everything, and none of the boots felt particularly good. Pretty tough to spend ~900 bucks on something that is simply "okay enough".

I have a high arch, a wideish foot (~101), and a narrow ankle. Ideally I want a 4 buckle touring boot (Zero G style) as I think the 1300 gram stuff will be a bit too light for what I like to ski, but I'm opening to trying...

Tried Hojis, Lange XT3 Tours, Fischers, others, my resort bot is a Salomon Alpha Pro 120 and it feels real good. I tried the Atomic Backland Carbon 120, and it actually felt really good, like slippers, but I think I'll over power it a lot. At this point I just want a boot that makes my foot happy, if I have to get new liners, or punches, whatever that's fine, as long as the end result is happy feet, and good skiability.

I guess what I'm asking is does anyone have any reqs? Am I being too picky? Why is this so hard.

[gregL]

I tried to find the other boot thread but scrolled back 6 pages and only found this one, so here goes:

I am looking for a dedicated touring boot, I feel I have tried on everything, and none of the boots felt particularly good. Pretty tough to spend ~900 bucks on something that is simply "okay enough".

I have a high arch, a wideish foot (~101), and a narrow ankle. Ideally I want a 4 buckle touring boot (Zero G style) as I think the 1300 gram stuff will be a bit too light for what I like to ski, but I'm opening to trying...

Tried Hojis, Lange XT3 Tours, Fischers, others, my resort bot is a Salomon Alpha Pro 120 and it feels real good. I tried the Atomic Backland Carbon 120, and it actually felt really good, like slippers, but I think I'll over power it a lot. At this point I just want a boot that makes my foot happy, if I have to get new liners, or punches, whatever that's fine, as long as the end result is happy feet, and good skiability.

I guess what I'm asking is does anyone have any reqs? Am I being too picky? Why is this so hard.

Hard to recommend a boot without having your feet in front of me - if I do so in the shop, and tell them I can make it work, it's on me to deliver.

Bottom line is, you don't have that many choices, and in the sub-1400 gram category the Backland XTD Carbon 120 and Tecnica Zero G Tour Pro are certainly the front runners.

[carlh]

You might try to find some older hawx xtd 130 shells while they were made in grilamid and put in your liner of choice.

I tried to find the other boot thread but scrolled back 6 pages and only found this one, so here goes:

I am looking for a dedicated touring boot, I feel I have tried on everything, and none of the boots felt particularly good. Pretty tough to spend ~900 bucks on something that is simply "okay enough".

I have a high arch, a wideish foot (~101), and a narrow ankle. Ideally I want a 4 buckle touring boot (Zero G style) as I think the 1300 gram stuff will be a bit too light for what I like to ski, but I'm opening to trying...

Tried Hojis, Lange XT3 Tours, Fischers, others, my resort bot is a Salomon Alpha Pro 120 and it feels real good. I tried the Atomic Backland Carbon 120, and it actually felt really good, like slippers, but I think I'll over power it a lot. At this point I just want a boot that makes my foot happy, if I have to get new liners, or punches, whatever that's fine, as long as the end result is happy feet, and good skiability.

I guess what I'm asking is does anyone have any reqs? Am I being too picky? Why is this so hard.

[Backward_Banana]

I'm wading into the dangerous world of trying to help my partner figure out her boot dilemma....

How much room can really be made on a touring boot punching the toe for length? She's between sizes in the Radical Pro, 23 is a 1 finger fit but the 24 is a healthy 2 finger fit, and she has both. Apparently her toes are a bit scrunched in the 23s touring around, and she lost some toenails last season ice climbing in them. The toes were punched once by Pulse and they claimed that you can't really make a lot of room going forward in a touring boot, which seems off to me.

There's some significant heel lift in the 24, but the other option would maybe be to put a wrap liner and some L and C cups to try to lock that heel down, but my experience is that punching bigger is usually the right way to go. Can a good bootfitter get a half-size out of punching the toe?

[gregL]

I'm wading into the dangerous world of trying to help my partner figure out her boot dilemma....

How much room can really be made on a touring boot punching the toe for length? She's between sizes in the Radical Pro, 23 is a 1 finger fit but the 24 is a healthy 2 finger fit, and she has both. Apparently her toes are a bit scrunched in the 23s touring around, and she lost some toenails last season ice climbing in them. The toes were punched once by Pulse and they claimed that you can't really make a lot of room going forward in a touring boot, which seems off to me.

There's some significant heel lift in the 24, but the other option would maybe be to put a wrap liner and some L and C cups to try to lock that heel down, but my experience is that punching bigger is usually the right way to go. Can a good bootfitter get a half-size out of punching the toe?

You can't generalize about touring boots being hard to punch for length, every plastic and every model is different. Whether or not you can get enough extra length to make a given boot work also depends on the shape of the forefoot and binding choice. It also varies depending on the individual bootfitter's skillset and tool collection.

In general, especially if she is big toe dominant and just needs the first phalanges longer or "squared out" to the medial side, getting an extra 5mm shouldn't be that hard (might not work in a Shift with the toe wings, but hopefully she isn't using one with the Radical Pro). If she needs the entire toebox longer, it may be a bit tougher and you have to worry about knocking the locking lever of some tech bindings out of lock position, but still not impossible.

I would seek out another bootfitter and get a second opinion.

[GoldenBC]

Can we keep this thread to bootfitters discussing bootfitter things like originally intentioned rather than turning it into a general boot question thread. Thanks.

[Velomayniac]

Can we keep this thread to bootfitters discussing bootfitter things like originally intentioned rather than turning it into a general boot question thread. Thanks.

What boots should I buy online from Evo? I'm trying to save some money.

The red ones look slowest, I like the black ones but can you tell me which ones to buy?

[Yukonrider]

Can we keep this thread to bootfitters discussing bootfitter things like originally intentioned rather than turning it into a general boot question thread. Thanks.

Found and bumped the consumer thread as penance.

[lucknau]

What boots should I buy online from Evo? I'm trying to save some money.

The red ones look slowest, I like the black ones but can you tell me which ones to buy?

I thought red was faster... Fack.


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[Velomayniac]

I thought red was faster... Fack.


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send me a text. I think you have my new number

[Skeeple]

Thoughts on vacuuming my scarpa (Quattro) liner? I got some lightly used (<10 days allegedly) boots from someone whose feet were too high volume for the boot, I generally have the opposite problem so given access to tools I thought why not:
1. bake liners per mfg recommendation
2.reinsert into shell
3. Pull vacuum on boot ( thoughts on vacuum strength?)
4. Allow to cool
5. Heat mold to my feet.


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[gregL]

Thoughts on vacuuming my scarpa (Quattro) liner? I got some lightly used (<10 days allegedly) boots from someone whose feet were too high volume for the boot, I generally have the opposite problem so given access to tools I thought why not:
1. bake liners per mfg recommendation
2.reinsert into shell
3. Pull vacuum on boot ( thoughts on vacuum strength?)
4. Allow to cool
5. Heat mold to my feet.

I'm not sure what vacuum you're talking about, you mean a home vacuum? I can pretty much guarantee you it won't work. If you have too much volume in a boot, the usual fix is to buy another liner with more foam thickness (i.e. Intuition HV). There is a limit to what heating any liner can do for your fit, and filling up extra volume isn't on the list.

[Skeeple]

I'm not sure what vacuum you're talking about, you mean a home vacuum? I can pretty much guarantee you it won't work. If you have too much volume in a boot, the usual fix is to buy another liner with more foam thickness (i.e. Intuition HV). There is a limit to what heating any liner can do for your fit, and filling up extra volume isn't on the list.

I have a “scientific” vacuum pump and Heated Vacuum Chamber where I can pull 25inHg @ around 200F not enough for the heat, but I can heat in a different oven.

Sounds like you think I’m buying another pair of liners anyway. In that case I’ll give it a go and report back.

I’ve heard you can’t heat mold more than 2/3 times. Is that due to the liner packing out or does the foam stop moving at a cellular level? Trying to decide if I vacuum at different levels stepping up to avoid overdoing it or if I really only have one shot.


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[GoldenBC]

I have a “scientific” vacuum pump and Heated Vacuum Chamber where I can pull 25inHg @ around 200F not enough for the heat, but I can heat in a different oven.

Sounds like you think I’m buying another pair of liners anyway. In that case I’ll give it a go and report back.

I’ve heard you can’t heat mold more than 2/3 times. Is that due to the liner packing out or does the foam stop moving at a cellular level? Trying to decide if I vacuum at different levels stepping up to avoid overdoing it or if I really only have one shot.


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One of the crazier things I’ve read on here. Nice.

You’re thinking the negative pressure is going to fluff up the liner? I don’t see that working. Intuition don’t gain volume when you heat them up new and they don’t regain volume much when you hear them after they have been used.

But if I’m missing something you are actually successful in increasing the volume, it would ski like crap and pack out quickly as it would be super low density.

[gregL]

I have a “scientific” vacuum pump and Heated Vacuum Chamber where I can pull 25inHg @ around 200F not enough for the heat, but I can heat in a different oven.

Sounds like you think I’m buying another pair of liners anyway. In that case I’ll give it a go and report back.

I’ve heard you can’t heat mold more than 2/3 times. Is that due to the liner packing out or does the foam stop moving at a cellular level? Trying to decide if I vacuum at different levels stepping up to avoid overdoing it or if I really only have one shot.

You can heat mold a liner as many times as you like, but it doesn't magically re-generate its integrity or thickness with more heat, if anything it gets less structurally sound. You could also heat mold them in zero gravity, but once you got down to earth they would pack out in no time.