The Bootfitter’s Thread

[gregL]

This could be a really dumb question, but is there any material you can use to fill in space that’s been ground out incorrectly?

Dollar bills.

[natebob]

Man, it's been heel issue week for me. Would love your opinions on this situation:

Customer measures 26.5, D- width, medium instep/volume. Has a good 1.5cm shell fit in a 26.5 Dynafit Radical Pro. Molded liners using toe cap and padded for width at mets. After wearing for an hour, buckles medium snug, in ski mode, he gets numbness at medial side of right heel that wraps around to mid-line back of heel. Also a bit numb under heel. Numbness gets better when boot put into tour mode, and takes about 15 min. to go away after taking the boot off. The heel cup is well formed and snug, but doesn't feel crazy tight. He loves the fit of the boots except for this problem. No issues with the left foot.

I'm not very experienced diagnosing nerve related issues. After looking at some foot charts, I think it's related to pressure on either the lateral calcanial branch of the sural, post tibial or "baxter" nerve. I remolded the liner, added pads to both sides of the heel and this improved things. It makes sense to me that going to walk mode improves things because I think that takes pressure off the heel area. I feel like I've taken advantage of any relief to be had from working on the liner. Inside the shell below the cuff rivets is some thicker plastic that forms the sides of the heel cup. The only other thing I can think to do is grind that plastic thinner, hoping to get more relief. What do you think?

[turnfarmer]

This could be a really dumb question, but is there any material you can use to fill in space that’s been ground out incorrectly?

PC-7 Epoxy works well

[natebob]

Another heel problem to ask about:

Customer brought in his 26.5 Lange XT3 complaining about painful heel spurs. He measures 27.0, wants a performance fit, is happy with width and instep fit. Shell fit is 0.5"/1.25cm. He has good custom footbeds, but has not been using them in the Langes because they raise the heel up too much. The heel of the footbed is pretty thin already, not sure there is much room to be gained by thinning more. He's had consistent problems with the heel spurs in past boots. Last boot was a Hawx that had pretty aggressive heel punches, and some padding added to the sides of the liner. The thinking there was to make room for the spurs, and help stabilize the heel so it wouldn't move around too much, putting pressure on the spurs. None of this fixed the problem. He said he went to a few bootfitters last season, none were able to fix the problem. He kept commenting that he feels immobilizing the heels is key to minimizing the pressure on the spurs. I agree, but feel that some sort of shell mod is needed to accommodate the spurs.

My initial thoughts were to grind or punch the Lange heels to accommodate the spurs and work on the liner to match the more room in heel. I'm hesitant to do this since it didn't work with the Hawx, but I'm not sure what else to do. Remove the boot board? Would you punch or grind? The plastic around the heel of this boot feels pretty thick, so I'm thinking grind. Any thoughts?

[gregL]

Another heel problem to ask about:

Customer brought in his 26.5 Lange XT3 complaining about painful heel spurs. He measures 27.0, wants a performance fit, is happy with width and instep fit. Shell fit is 0.5"/1.25cm. He has good custom footbeds, but has not been using them in the Langes because they raise the heel up too much. The heel of the footbed is pretty thin already, not sure there is much room to be gained by thinning more. He's had consistent problems with the heel spurs in past boots. Last boot was a Hawx that had pretty aggressive heel punches, and some padding added to the sides of the liner. The thinking there was to make room for the spurs, and help stabilize the heel so it wouldn't move around too much, putting pressure on the spurs. None of this fixed the problem. He said he went to a few bootfitters last season, none were able to fix the problem. He kept commenting that he feels immobilizing the heels is key to minimizing the pressure on the spurs. I agree, but feel that some sort of shell mod is needed to accommodate the spurs.

My initial thoughts were to grind or punch the Lange heels to accommodate the spurs and work on the liner to match the more room in heel. I'm hesitant to do this since it didn't work with the Hawx, but I'm not sure what else to do. Remove the boot board? Would you punch or grind? The plastic around the heel of this boot feels pretty thick, so I'm thinking grind. Any thoughts?

Regardless of whether you grind or punch, locating the precise spot is key - people often go too low when estimating heel spur locations. Depending on how big the spurs are, I would say you're still safer to punch than grind - I doubt the Grilamid is thicker than 4mm, and a safe grind is usually ~ half of the shell thickness, so you only get 2mm . . .

[XavierD]

Another heel problem to ask about:

He has good custom footbeds, but has not been using them in the Langes because they raise the heel up too much.

He's had consistent problems with the heel spurs in past boots.

He said he went to a few bootfitters last season, none were able to fix the problem. He kept commenting that he feels immobilizing the heels is key to minimizing the pressure on the spurs. I agree, but feel that some sort of shell mod is needed to accommodate the spurs.

Key aspects retained

Asses if the heel punches are in the right location. As Greg said, often too low and the spur hits the edge of the punch. The heel will also generally lift slightly when they flex into the boots. Bring whatever punch you made up higher would be a decent starting point.

Also, could be experiencing some inflammation in the Achilles’ tendon as it’s stretched over the bone spurs repeatedly while skiing, especially if pinned between the bone and the boot in a way other footwear doesn’t. treat with naproxen or ibuprofen

[natebob]

Regardless of whether you grind or punch, locating the precise spot is key - people often go too low when estimating heel spur locations. Depending on how big the spurs are, I would say you're still safer to punch than grind - I doubt the Grilamid is thicker than 4mm, and a safe grind is usually ~ half of the shell thickness, so you only get 2mm . . .

Thanks for the location advice Greg. I think the Lange XT3 130 is PU, and the heel feels pretty thick, which is why I was thinking a grind would be easier than a punch. I sure wouldn't try to punch a thin grilamid shell too much.

[natebob]

Key aspects retained

Asses if the heel punches are in the right location. As Greg said, often too low and the spur hits the edge of the punch. The heel will also generally lift slightly when they flex into the boots. Bring whatever punch you made up higher would be a decent starting point.

Also, could be experiencing some inflammation in the Achilles’ tendon as it’s stretched over the bone spurs repeatedly while skiing, especially if pinned between the bone and the boot in a way other footwear doesn’t. treat with naproxen or ibuprofen

That makes sense on making sure the punches are high enough- need to plan for a little heel lift. TBC, I haven't done any punches for him yet. He had some done on a different pr. of boots by someone else. I suspect those are too low from how he describes them.

I think you're right about the Achilles inflamation. He's commented that the area is irritated and is trying to be better about stretching and such.

Thanks for the help.

[gregL]

Thanks for the location advice Greg. I think the Lange XT3 130 is PU, and the heel feels pretty thick, which is why I was thinking a grind would be easier than a punch. I sure wouldn't try to punch a thin grilamid shell too much.

You're right, the shell on the regular XT3 is PU, but it still isn't plug boot thick - if you grind half the thickness away and it's in the wrong spot, you are kind of hosed. If you punch, you can retract the error with heat (not all the way) and massage its location.

[natebob]

You're right, the shell on the regular XT3 is PU, but it still isn't plug boot thick - if you grind half the thickness away and it's in the wrong spot, you are kind of hosed. If you punch, you can retract the error with heat (not all the way) and massage its location.

Ok, that makes sense, thanks.

[GoldenBC]

Bone spurs in heels can be caused by pronation putting side loading on the Achilles attachment. Does he have orthotics?

[natebob]

Bone spurs in heels can be caused by pronation putting side loading on the Achilles attachment. Does he have orthotics?

He was using custom footbeds in the old boots that had been punched for the spurs. From what he's told me, footbeds didn't help much. He hasn't been using them in the new boots because he feels they raise the foot so it's more in contact with the shell.

[GoldenBC]

@robnow I just listened to that podcast with the Moment guy. Interesting thought, am I the only one whose foot doesn’t seem to swell when touring? Not once have I felt like my boot got tighter over the day, in fact it always gets looser, considerably. And my liner doesn’t offer much room for softening and compressing as the day goes. I agree that you don’t need to be in a vice, but I wouldn’t fit large for room for expansion. I would fit for consideration of cold weather and the risk of frozen toes.

[RShea]

Anyone that is into boot fitting, have a lead on a shop that shut down and now finally selling some of their shop equipment and displays etc. Peterson Labs Boot Leveler, old Raichle Thermo Flex box, SGS- Stance Geometry System platform, True-Fit box, 2 Infrared heaters... They are selling stuff every Friday and Saturday and then will have some remaining stuff sold online (but not sure if Ebay or some other web site.)

[paschta]

Anyone here have recommendations on good boot fitting shops around the SLC area? Looking to have some assessment and work done, but new to the area and haven't been able to check out all the shops yet. Powder House and Lift House look like a good start possibly.

[GoldenBC]

Hey guys. Any recommendations for hardware suppliers for t nuts for buckles and power straps? I find the maislinger-snoli no. 1604 kit has a lot of useless stuff in it. Too small diameter, too short etc.

[waxman]

Hey guys. Any recommendations for hardware suppliers for t nuts for buckles and power straps? I find the maislinger-snoli no. 1604 kit has a lot of useless stuff in it. Too small diameter, too short etc.

http://svst.com/Boots/SVST-Boot-Repa...dware-Kit.html

anyone else think that boot suppliers should have buckles and hardware available?

[skisurfmirth]

Hey guys. Any recommendations for hardware suppliers for t nuts for buckles and power straps? I find the maislinger-snoli no. 1604 kit has a lot of useless stuff in it. Too small diameter, too short etc.

I’ve got that SVST one at my house if you want to see it in person

[GoldenBC]

Any recommendations for rolls of cambrelle/footbed covers? I’d prefer to buy it bulk and cut pieces off. I also find the thermic pre shaped covers don’t stick well.

[waxman]

Any recommendations for rolls of cambrelle/footbed covers? I’d prefer to buy it bulk and cut pieces off. I also find the thermic pre shaped covers don’t stick well.

been looking for a couple seasons, the code that 3M has for the product is no longer valid according to 3M industrial

[gregL]

If anyone knows of a shop selling a sole planer and/or toe router, I'm in the market.

[mr_pretzel]

Anyone know where to get the piece that can go on the bottom of the boot to keep it straight while toe punching? Or any thoughts on getting one made?

From gregs lovely blog:

[gregL]

Anyone know where to get the piece that can go on the bottom of the boot to keep it straight while toe punching? Or any thoughts on getting one made?

From gregs lovely blog:

Barry had that custom fabricated.

[turnfarmer]

Anyone know where to get the piece that can go on the bottom of the boot to keep it straight while toe punching? Or any thoughts on getting one made?

From gregs lovely blog:

http://www.roffb.com/en/prodotto.aspx?idProd=52

I believe distribution in NA is Montana
Don’t think RoffB is cheap though

[gregL]

Anyone know where to get the piece that can go on the bottom of the boot to keep it straight while toe punching? Or any thoughts on getting one made?

From gregs lovely blog:

Also, that sole attachment isn't really all that stiff and wouldn't necessarily keep the sole from warping - it's just to protect the toe lug from damage from the ring. In any event, you shouldn't be heating any part of the toe lug or sole to do that punch, just the part that needs stretching. The old worry about warping the sole longitudinally comes from the day of using an internal hydraulic expander to do the toe stretch, most people I know use a lever punch now because it's about 5 times faster and more powerful.