track cars (auto racing)

[Dexter Rutecki]

Maybe there's already a thread somewhere about this, but based on some of the posts over the years I am pretty sure some of you do track your cars. I've always been pretty into car racing, but until recently never owned something that made me feel like I had to get it on a track to really explore the car's limits. That changed when I came into possession of a Ford Focus RS in the fall...since then I've kind of become obsessed with it, and can't wait to get it back on a race track this spring (was going to do two track days in the fall but the second one was canceled due to weather and that was the end of the season around here).

Curious what you guys think is important in terms of track performance. I don't know how far down this rabbit hole I will go, but at the least I realized I probably need an intercooler or something, and I'm trying to figure out what it would really mean to switch out the seat and put in a rollbar so I would have a multi-point harness (while the car is not a 'daily driver,' if putting in the bar would mean making one or both rear seats unusable then I probably wouldn't do it, since at this point I don't see myself doing dozens of track days per year).

Obviously tons of other things that could be done, just pretty unsure about what I should be seriously considering.

[hawkgt]

I've owned a boat, I can see where this is going

edit: kart racing......

[Dexter Rutecki]

The boat thing took me a second, but I see what you did there. I know I kind of need to draw a line somewhere, just no idea at all where that line will end up going. So far Mrs. Rutecki has been almost shockingly understanding of this, so I have that going for me.

Yeah, karting is cool but I guess could be a whole separate rabbit hole. Loved kart racing the few times I did it...

[BmillsSkier]

Talking about tracking your car or building a track car out of your car?

Tires and wheels just for the track. Upgrade brakes and make sure oil and fluids are good to go where they need it.

Cages are necessary for any live racing which as you know is not the same for track days so all those mods would be very low on my list until I wanted to regularly race.

You'll spend so much on burning tires, brakes and gas just tracking the car, all with a shit eating grin mind you, that you won't even consider a cage and all that for at least a year.

[adrenalated]

Long time kart racer here. Being deeply involved in that community, have plenty of friends and family that have spent lots of time tracking their street cars too.

The things that seem to fail first on street cars on a track are tires, brakes, and cooling. So intercooler is a good idea but decent tires and better brake pads are also a must.
I would worry less about the seat/rollbar and invest in a good helmet, but that also depends on the track and how much shit there is to hit if you go off.

Karting - rabbit hole yes, but spending a few grand on a kart will yield MUCH more performance and thrills than tracking your street car. And they are much cheaper to repair when you run out of talent. And you can actually go wheel to wheel racing if you want. You don't get the stupid ego boost of bragging that you went 100mph in your car but if you ACTUALLY want to go fast, karts are where it's at. What to buy depends on what's popular in your area. I could ramble about karting for hours and happy to do so over PM but won't clog the forum space. If you have a decent kart track nearby, my opinion is that's more fun. I do prefer being challenged in corners vs going fast in a straight line though. A 125 shifter will kick the living shit out of you.
BTW actual race karts are nothing like what any track rents.

[basinbeater]

Keep in mind changes somewhere may necessitate changes somewhere else. Put super sticky tires on your car? Be prepared to find the limits of your suspension and the need to adjust there to compensate for the sticky rubber. There is a synergy to a good track car that can also be driven on the street.
Others are spot on about the importance of brakes. Upgraded pads and fluid at a MINIMUM. Cooling system. Make sure it is working at full efficiency. Oil system same. Basically the car needs to be in tip top shape in every aspect, or you may have a hard time getting to work on Monday.
Another option if you have a truck is getting a dedicated racecar, something like a spec miata or spec e30, or spec 944, etc. I used to have a spec 944, and it was a hoot.
Kart racing is nuts, but goddamn those things beat you up.

sent from Utah.

[adrenalated]

Kart racing is nuts, but goddamn those things beat you up.

I can't even tell you how many times we sold a 125 shifter to someone because he needed the fastest thing to make his dick hard, then sold him something more reasonable a year later once they realized they wanted to be able to walk the next day.

Now that I qualify for the old guy classes I'm probably going to get into a KA100 at some point. Fast enough to be fun just to drive, slow enough to not beat you up too bad. A lot of the washed up old racers that used to be good in their teens and are usually found spinning wrenches are running them now.

[Dexter Rutecki]

Talking about tracking your car or building a track car out of your car?

Tires and wheels just for the track. Upgrade brakes and make sure oil and fluids are good to go where they need it.

Yeah, before my last (only) track day I checked oil/fluids. The stock brakes are pretty good on this thing--beefy Brembo calipers, large rotors...I'm guessing they could be better, but Ford seemed to do pretty well at sending these things out at least somewhat ready to go (I think). Having dedicated track tires is somewhat problematic for me, but I may end up doing it (storage is an issue, but I can figure that out). Already knew brakes/tires top the list of items for track days.

Cages are necessary for any live racing which as you know is not the same for track days so all those mods would be very low on my list until I wanted to regularly race.

You'll spend so much on burning tires, brakes and gas just tracking the car, all with a shit eating grin mind you, that you won't even consider a cage and all that for at least a year.

You're right, but I bring it up because as soon as my father found out I was doing this (I surprised him with a ride in the car) he immediately asked about a harness. When I started thinking about it and researching I realized he wasn't wrong. Not sure how much of a safety issue just using the stock lap/should belt is, but a harness is safer. The stock seats in this thing seem really good as well (Recaro, which I guess is considered decent), but I've read that a really good seat does help (and that makes complete sense to me thinking about my track day).

Long time kart racer here. Being deeply involved in that community, have plenty of friends and family that have spent lots of time tracking their street cars too.

The things that seem to fail first on street cars on a track are tires, brakes, and cooling. So intercooler is a good idea but decent tires and better brake pads are also a must.
I would worry less about the seat/rollbar and invest in a good helmet, but that also depends on the track and how much shit there is to hit if you go off.

Yup, got the helmet after the first track day so I wouldn't have to rent (showed up with a DOT approved helmet that didn't cut it).

Karting - rabbit hole yes, but spending a few grand on a kart will yield MUCH more performance and thrills than tracking your street car. And they are much cheaper to repair when you run out of talent. And you can actually go wheel to wheel racing if you want. You don't get the stupid ego boost of bragging that you went 100mph in your car but if you ACTUALLY want to go fast, karts are where it's at. What to buy depends on what's popular in your area. I could ramble about karting for hours and happy to do so over PM but won't clog the forum space. If you have a decent kart track nearby, my opinion is that's more fun. I do prefer being challenged in corners vs going fast in a straight line though. A 125 shifter will kick the living shit out of you.
BTW actual race karts are nothing like what any track rents.

Something to think about, but I guess part of it is that I already own this car, so...I see your point completely, though. Still, just the track day laps in this car were so much fun. Where I went in southern Jersey they have at least one karting track--around here I am only aware of indoor, electric tracks.

Keep in mind changes somewhere may necessitate changes somewhere else. Put super sticky tires on your car? Be prepared to find the limits of your suspension and the need to adjust there to compensate for the sticky rubber. There is a synergy to a good track car that can also be driven on the street.
Others are spot on about the importance of brakes. Upgraded pads and fluid at a MINIMUM. Cooling system. Make sure it is working at full efficiency. Oil system same. Basically the car needs to be in tip top shape in every aspect, or you may have a hard time getting to work on Monday.
Another option if you have a truck is getting a dedicated racecar, something like a spec miata or spec e30, or spec 944, etc. I used to have a spec 944, and it was a hoot.
Kart racing is nuts, but goddamn those things beat you up.

sent from Utah.

Thanks, definitely not going with a dedicated track only car any time soon...no truck, no garage, so that would be tough unless I found somewhere else to keep the car (or spent thousands to garage it near here). But curious about what I could expect to change in terms of suspension if I did get stickier tires, and then if I'm swapping tires for street use what that would mean off the track. What about stickier tires that I use for both street and track (kind of a compromise)? Is that possible? I know better tires wear faster, sometimes much faster, but I don't really know how many miles I'd be losing vs. the gain in performance.

[I am such a JONG for this stuff]

[gravitylover]

There's room in that car for 4 wheels/tires so you can have a track set. I'd think adjustable coilovers so you can change damping rates and height for street and track use. The brakes on the RS are pretty good but the fluid isn't up to the task so change that. Tranny, diff and brake fluids also need to be changed regularly. Get a couple of nice bottle jacks with locks so you can get the car up in the air quickly and safely to do the wheel swap or whatever else.

I'd say store it here in my driveway and I'd make sure it gets out and gets some exercise occasionally but I'm out of driveway space at the moment. That may change this spring or early summer though.

[Timberridge]

At the risk of getting sucked into a Dexter thread and going around in circles, I'll toss out an opinion or six on this.

First, I think you're talking about doing track days with a club vs. racing. The 10-15 minutes of track time 3 sessions a day stuff I assume. Racing on club track days gets you black flagged.

I did about 40-50 track days at various East Coast tracks in a E30 M3 once upon a time. I also had some race seat time in a spec Miata. Here's what I've learned:

1. Find out what the weak parts of the Focus are (message boards, etc.) and get those sorted. For instance E36 BMWs had weak rear shock mounts and I wouldn't track an E36 unless it had reinforcements welded in.

2. Look at what tracks you are going to be spending time at. Some tracks require a bit more attention to brakes. So Focus there. Pun intended.

3. If you're welding in roll cages and race harnesses and fire extinguisher mounts for club track days on your primarily street car you're doing the wrong type of track days. They also make your insurance company go "hmmm" when you file a claim.

4. Sticky race tires are great. But they don't give much warning compared to a steet biased tire when they're about to break loose. I know guys who went from using high performance street tires to race tires on track days and then ended up in the grass (hopefully) during every session or into a wall (unhopefully) after making the switch.

5. Race compound brake pads can work real well on the track with respect to fading etc. But unless you are at a brake-chewing-up sort of track, stick with the intermediate level between street and track compound. Also, race compound pads will light your hair on fire on that first stop of the day on the street. If they're not already there on the Focus, if you can add cooling ducts to the fronts it's not a bad upgrade.

6. Some parts will break after a track day which would otherwise last years doing street only driving. Make sure Mrs. Rutecki is ok with you borrowing her car for a couple days while you and Aldo visit breaker yards in NW CT and Eastern PA looking for Focus RS parts.

Notice I didn't suggest all sort of hop up performance parts like lightened flywheels, adjustable coilovers, 6 piston Willwoods, etc. You don't need that.

Feel free to disregard anything I said and do it your own way.

[Aldo]

I'm just happy you're not asking about tracking the old camry.

[schuss]

Yeah, it really depends on if this is:
1. Occasional track days for funzies
2. Regular track day with an aim to eventually compete at an amateur level for funzies

For 1, as others said, check out message boards for general "strengthening". Typically this is intercooler upgrade, oil cooler, potential new oil solutions (many aren't made for continued track use and experience starvation issues), different brakes/tires/wheels.
For 2, look into karting (cheaper) or a dedicated track whip with cheaper consumables - miata etc. The cost of oil, tires and brake pads is a major consideration, as well as rebuilds/fenders as you "run out of talent" as others put it.

[Mazderati]

There is also autocrossing which is maybe a compromise. One set of tires and brakes would last at least a season. It's a lot easier on the vehicle and events may be more accessible. Cars are classed to be competitive with each other and there is a weighted time to compete with other drivers. Entry is cheaper. The trade off is lower speeds and 2 to 4 timed runs of 45 to 90 seconds.

[Self Jupiter]

This^. I wish I did more autocross before my first track day. Also check out winter driving school / winter autocross events, all you’ll need for extra equipment is snow tires.

[Dexter Rutecki]

1. Find out what the weak parts of the Focus are (message boards, etc.) and get those sorted. For instance E36 BMWs had weak rear shock mounts and I wouldn't track an E36 unless it had reinforcements welded in.

Been on one of the message boards since right before I got the car--as with here, kind of a mixed bag, but there is some good info. So far this thread, as far as my question goes, has been better than the Focus RS board. I get the impression this car needs same/similar to what a lot of cars need for the track, but cooling is definitely an issue (as I realized on that track day watching the oil temp spike and smelling what seemed like everything on the car burning when I came off the track).

2. Look at what tracks you are going to be spending time at. Some tracks require a bit more attention to brakes. So Focus there. Pun intended.

Yeah, that hadn't occurred to me. I can say that the NJMP track seemed pretty damn hard on brakes to me...I am aware of a bunch of possible tracks, but aside from NJMP no firm plans (would obviously love Lime Rock/Watkins Glen--was actually warned about safety at the apparently ironically named NYS Safety Track)

3. If you're welding in roll cages and race harnesses and fire extinguisher mounts for club track days on your primarily street car you're doing the wrong type of track days. They also make your insurance company go "hmmm" when you file a claim.

Still own another car (which means I am kind of insane), but as I kind of said, if the cage/bar would render the rear seats unusable then I probably just can't do it (I was thinking just a bar might be ok--no?). I read that you're really dumb not to have the fire extinguisher. You don't agree?

4. Sticky race tires are great. But they don't give much warning compared to a steet biased tire when they're about to break loose. I know guys who went from using high performance street tires to race tires on track days and then ended up in the grass (hopefully) during every session or into a wall (unhopefully) after making the switch.

Great point. From watching car racing all these years I knew race tires could let go almost without warning, but I hadn't thought about that for myself at all. I assume if you anticipate it as a possibility you can keep the worst from happening?

5. Race compound brake pads can work real well on the track with respect to fading etc. But unless you are at a brake-chewing-up sort of track, stick with the intermediate level between street and track compound. Also, race compound pads will light your hair on fire on that first stop of the day on the street. If they're not already there on the Focus, if you can add cooling ducts to the fronts it's not a bad upgrade.

Yes, Focus forums have talked about front brake ducts. Again, based on my one track day it seems that could be a must.

6. Some parts will break after a track day which would otherwise last years doing street only driving. Make sure Mrs. Rutecki is ok with you borrowing her car for a couple days while you and Aldo visit breaker yards in NW CT and Eastern PA looking for Focus RS parts.

What will likely break first (and how bad will it be--will the car still be driveable)? I generally don't 'need' a car at all, except for skiing, but how often should I expect to have to fix things that break due to tracking the thing? I know it's a good idea to avoid taking too much curb for that reason (bearings and suspension, I guess).

Notice I didn't suggest all sort of hop up performance parts like lightened flywheels, adjustable coilovers, 6 piston Willwoods, etc. You don't need that.

Feel free to disregard anything I said and do it your own way.

Well, I have no idea what my own way would be, but I have to think winging it on my own wouldn't make sense. I guess another question is how much I should be anticipating spending on all of this? I own no tools (have a pozidrive #3, of course) and finding a place to work on the car is a little tough. For example, intercooler/front brake ducts. If I have a shop do that stuff... [scared to ask]...what do you think I'd be looking at?

[Dexter Rutecki]

Yeah, it really depends on if this is:
1. Occasional track days for funzies
2. Regular track day with an aim to eventually compete at an amateur level for funzies

For 1, as others said, check out message boards for general "strengthening". Typically this is intercooler upgrade, oil cooler, potential new oil solutions (many aren't made for continued track use and experience starvation issues), different brakes/tires/wheels.
For 2, look into karting (cheaper) or a dedicated track whip with cheaper consumables - miata etc. The cost of oil, tires and brake pads is a major consideration, as well as rebuilds/fenders as you "run out of talent" as others put it.

For now just 1, getting to 2 seems pretty cool to me but also might be too next level to really think about. I have to work up to it and become qualified in any case, right (I mean aside from learning what I need to learn, I think there are boxes to check before you're allowed at those events--and I'm not quite dumb enough to try that anyway in the near future, given my almost complete lack of experience outside of PS4).

This is all really good stuff. Thanks, you guys.

[Timberridge]

Been on one of the message boards since right before I got the car--as with here, kind of a mixed bag, but there is some good info. So far this thread, as far as my question goes, has been better than the Focus RS board. I get the impression this car needs same/similar to what a lot of cars need for the track, but cooling is definitely an issue (as I realized on that track day watching the oil temp spike and smelling what seemed like everything on the car burning when I came off the track).

Yeah, that hadn't occurred to me. I can say that the NJMP track seemed pretty damn hard on brakes to me...I am aware of a bunch of possible tracks, but aside from NJMP no firm plans (would obviously love Lime Rock/Watkins Glen--was actually warned about safety at the apparently ironically named NYS Safety Track)



Still own another car (which means I am kind of insane), but as I kind of said, if the cage/bar would render the rear seats unusable then I probably just can't do it (I was thinking just a bar might be ok--no?). I read that you're really dumb not to have the fire extinguisher. You don't agree?



Great point. From watching car racing all these years I knew race tires could let go almost without warning, but I hadn't thought about that for myself at all. I assume if you anticipate it as a possibility you can keep the worst from happening?

Yes, Focus forums have talked about front brake ducts. Again, based on my one track day it seems that could be a must.

What will likely break first (and how bad will it be--will the car still be driveable)? I generally don't 'need' a car at all, except for skiing, but how often should I expect to have to fix things that break due to tracking the thing? I know it's a good idea to avoid taking too much curb for that reason (bearings and suspension, I guess).



Well, I have no idea what my own way would be, but I have to think winging it on my own wouldn't make sense. I guess another question is how much I should be anticipating spending on all of this? I own no tools (have a pozidrive #3, of course) and finding a place to work on the car is a little tough. For example, intercooler/front brake ducts. If I have a shop do that stuff... [scared to ask]...what do you think I'd be looking at?

If you want to screw in a removable clamp to the seat bolts to hold an extinguisher for piece of mind that's fine--some clubs may require them idk. I was more referring to guys who weld a permanent bracket in the floor, etc. Don't leave it in a hot car in the summer when you're not at the track.

You're gonna have to get some tools though besides the posidriver. Accumulate them as you need them though. For instance, if you want to change your own pads and rotors to save a few hundo you'll need a torque wrench and perhaps a certain size torx bit. If you want to bleed them, then a bleeder, etc. The Youtubes and Focus forums are great places to see what the job entails before you decide if it's worth it. I still have a M3 clutch plate centering tool that I used 1x and paid $150 which well...was a waste.

It really depends on your shop's labor rate as to cost. Parts are parts and cost the same, but the difference on a $100 rate and a $150 rate for a 2 hr job is significant.

Consider little things which can make life easier. For example, if your wheels have lug bolts and you're swapping wheel/tire sets all the time, get some studs put in instead and get the correct nuts for the wheels. It makes the whole changing process a bit easier.
I mention this also from a safety standpoint. Some wheels have different seat angles and depths that the nut or bolt seats onto. If you use the wrong bolt or nut that doesn't seat (i.e. the angle on the bolt seat is different than the wheel) you can end up with a real problem with the forces you generate on the track.

Good luck! It's a whole lot of fun and I've met some really nice people at tracks. The best part is if you have a mech problem or need advice there's always someone there who's willing to help out. I met Will Turner when we were both in our early 20's and he was just starting out with his shop. He's now a really big deal in motorsports which I think is very cool.

Another cool thing I'll mention. My kid has Forza for Xbox. They have most tracks in that game. I've picked cars that I've driven on the track and the power/ handling is pretty spot on ( i.e., the E30 M3 hammered down the Lime Rock straight actually does about the same speed as the real thing.) I think it's a great way to learn a track and the correct line before you go there IRL.

[Foggy_Goggles]

So hold on...do you have a garage...do you have a pile of extra cheddar?

I think almost everyone would enjoy driving a car fast on a racetrack but everyone I know that has done it says the time and resources needed is pretty consuming. Do you actually enjoy working on cars? That's a big part of recreational hobbies with things with engines.

I'm guessing there are driving schools or rental programs so something where all you have to do it write a check, I'd be looking at that.

[BmillsSkier]

Another cool thing I'll mention. My kid has Forza for Xbox. They have most tracks in that game. I've picked cars that I've driven on the track and the power/ handling is pretty spot on ( i.e., the E30 M3 hammered down the Lime Rock straight actually does about the same speed as the real thing.) I think it's a great way to learn a track and the correct line before you go there IRL.

This is cool and with how far games have come it really seems to translate well to IRL. Last year at Petit LeMans there was some guy at the Michelin booth in the fan zone just shredding lap times on their simulator (best time got a few laps of wheel time in a new 911 GT car with a pro sometime during the week). When asked how much track time he's had at Road Atlanta he said like 45 minutes or so all told, but he's had hours and hours on Forza or one of the other games getting the line dialed.

[Timberridge]

This is cool and with how far games have come it really seems to translate well to IRL. Last year at Petit LeMans there was some guy at the Michelin booth in the fan zone just shredding lap times on their simulator (best time got a few laps of wheel time in a new 911 GT car with a pro sometime during the week). When asked how much track time he's had at Road Atlanta he said like 45 minutes or so all told, but he's had hours and hours on Forza or one of the other games getting the line dialed.

It's really mind blowing. Even little things like the different engine sounds are fairly authentic.

[Dexter Rutecki]

Yeah, I've been doing those things since an early Gran Turismo came out in the late 90's, stayed with that until a few years ago when I took some good advice and went to Project Cars, now I'm being told to switch again but honestly I haven't even had my system turned on, at all, since September. Keep saying I am going to get back to it but sitting down in front of it, for me, is a time commitment (I'm not just going to run a lap or two).

Not sure how much it helped me improve, although I assume it did, but I think it did make it easier for me to memorize that track I went to (am thinking of how when I used to ski race memorizing courses got easier with experience).

Those games are all amazing--the physics are so good, differences between FW/RW/AWD, engine placement, tires, aero...you can almost feel all of it through the steering wheel. But the guys who race online 24/7 just seem unbeatable to me.

[Dexter Rutecki]

Again, some great info from everyone here. Thx. And no, I don't have a garage, but I like TR's advice to accumulate tools. Just tough to figure out where I can actually work on the car. I feel like living where I do skiing is tough to effectively pursue, but this might be even worse (unless I go all in and join one of the clubs and rent garage space, but at the moment that's a step way too far).

[Kai]

Find your local Porsche club. Most of them run track days and most of these events are not Porsche specific.

They will typically pair you with an experienced instructor for your first few sessions to teach you the basics.

As mentioned above. Brakes and tires will get beat by tracking your car. You may find that your car is overheating and you will have to go in before driving a full session.

Do it. It's fun. (But expensive.)

[johnnyg82]

How much on track experience do you have? Best first mods are driver mods, get as much seat time as you can. From there you’ll learn what the car needs.

Stoptech street pads make a good track day pad that you can live with everywhere else.

I used to track my WRX, and the first thing I did was to change out the brake fluid. I used Motul RBF600. I also changed my pads to Hawk HP+, which were great on track when at temperature, but Ffff were they noisy on the street, I sounded like a bus.

Oh and Garmin makes something called the Catalyst for track which looks neat.

[MontuckyFried]

Always thought the Lemons Rally racing looked like a blast. Race a cheap beater and see what happens.

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