track cars (auto racing)

[schuss]

Oh, and how is the RS? Always been curious about those.

[schindlerpiste]

If your car is going to double as your street car, just modify engine (some sort of chip), suspension and tires. Maybe manifold and headers. A nice form fitting Recaro type seat is nice, but don't go crazy. You still want the car to be comfortable to take on nice road trips.

[willywhit]

you guys are mental.
Focus RS, nice.
I had a Focus SVT that I wanted to track but just became a daily driver for years.
gave it to a buddy when it became "how much more do you wanna spend ?"
he will bring her back to rally class.
I've seen autocross turn into track days with a bud's shelby mustang morphing into a GT beast for wheel to wheel full on racing.
I've seen rich kids pour $$$ into a 350Z and still suck,also seen the 350Z kid turn it into a Porsche cup car by creating a business wrapping race cars to finance the addiction.
racing ain't cheap but a great way way to squander $$ and have the time of your life. ask paul newman.
right now, have a cooper S that is almost as fun as the Focus SVT for a daily driver but needs another $1,000 to keep her going. The Honda civic is the back up

[Dexter Rutecki]

Oh, and how is the RS? Always been curious about those.

It's pretty incredible. As I said before, I am kind of obsessed with it. Ridiculous power, zero lag, steering is so tight/precise, and I like the AWD. It's slightly heavy (which I really only noticed going into corners on that track day I did), and it definitely has heat issues (again, only evident during the track day). As a daily driver it's not ideal for a few reasons--fairly rough ride due to tight shocks (you feel everything--bumps I never knew existed kind of knock me around), and if I were any bigger I think the seats would be uncomfortable (5'11', 185).

This is a pretty good summary--irritating guy in the video, but it does show the car and talk about some of the car's interesting features.

https://www.motorbiscuit.com/the-for...-shouldnt-buy/

(The article talks a lot about how uncomfortable the car is, but FWIW I've done a number of long (2-6 hours) drives and it was very tolerable, just not like a really easy riding car--and I think it has a lot of room in back for this kind of car.)

you guys are mental.
Focus RS, nice.

Yeah, it really is, but what's mental here? I think it's all been pretty good stuff.

[jamal]

Oh hey, track car prep was kind of my thing for a number of years working at some shops in socal. Not much time spent driving myself though, because, well, it's expensive and usually I'd be getting paid to be out there helping someone else.

Things I'd focus on:
-make sure the cooling and brakes are adequate
-try to get the most out of each set of tires by measuring tire temps

If your tires are happy, they'll last longer, wear more evenly, and you'll go faster.

These were the main cars I'd baby sit:

[Dexter Rutecki]

Looks cool. Yup, the tire temp thing I have read about and will pay attention to--I completely fucked up tire pressures last time (don't even want to admit to my backwards thinking).

[jamal]

Yeah a probe will tell you a lot. Pressures, alignment, if you have appropriate roll stiffness, handling balance. And then keep notes. You can make your own setup sheet or just find one online. Obviously you can just go out there and drive and have fun but I'm really into the data collection and adjustment thing.

Not really going to happen in the real world, but ideally your tires are all the same temp, and the same temp across the tread.

center of tread hotter - tire pressure too high
center of tread cooler - tire pressure too low
outside of tires hotter - not enough camber and/or suspension too soft
inside of tires hotter - too much camber, but will improve cornering grip, possibly at the detriment of braking performance in extreme cases (like -4 degrees).
front tires are a lot hotter - car is probably pushing a little more than it should
all tires are really hot - suspension/damping might be too stiff, or you need wider tires

You should also be using a probe and not an IR thermometer because the surface temp of the tire is not going to be exactly representative of the casing by the time you roll into the pits and are taking measurements. I went out with a friend and his time attack car one time and that was what they had, and our data for the day wound up not being very good.

[basinbeater]

I was an scca instructor for a while, it was tons of fun, and I got to drive some people's coo cars, but also, about 30% of the time, the person's car would overheat or brakes would severely fade ending the person's day early. bad brake fluid was probably the most common thing. Some guys bmw m6 with the cool v10 was badass, but then all the temp lights started flashing and beeping and binging and he was done. That car sounded so cool. The cooling and brake prep really is critical, don't be the guy who thinks, they all say it, but my car is probably going to be fine. The problems were not really brand specific in my experience.

sent from Utah.

[Dexter Rutecki]

I was an scca instructor for a while, it was tons of fun, and I got to drive some people's coo cars, but also, about 30% of the time, the person's car would overheat or brakes would severely fade ending the person's day early. bad brake fluid was probably the most common thing. Some guys bmw m6 with the cool v10 was badass, but then all the temp lights started flashing and beeping and binging and he was done. That car sounded so cool. The cooling and brake prep really is critical, don't be the guy who thinks, they all say it, but my car is probably going to be fine. The problems were not really brand specific in my experience.

sent from Utah.

Yup, like I said, I was caught off guard at the heat generated on the track and have read that brake/engine cooling needs help on this car (am sure as you said it can be true of any manufacturer). Have a few months to sort it all out before I have another chance for a track day.
You were one of the guys who I somehow knew had experience w this stuff--do you still track a car/cars?.

Jamal, have read several things about measuring tire temps ASAP coming off the track, and I guess I will just to hopefully get pressures right, but reading about all the variables and what they mean reminded me of dealing w wax for ski races (sometimes too hard to completely predict and account for).

Thoughts on tires I might be able to use on track and street (and not have to buy new ones all the time)? Or is that not realistic?

[jamal]

Yeah the thing with taking temps is you should probably also be able to make adjustments yourself based on what you're seeing. So, like, doing your own alignment, at the track. We'd usually get a garage and haul the scales and gear out there and do that for customers and race cars we supported. Pretty simple setup- these deals that leaned up against the rear wheels and projected a laser line and a little camber gauge. I've been meaning to make my own alignment gear actually, it's kind of going to be a cross between that and a more traditional set of strings.


For cooling and brakes, usually the bolt on type upgrades will take care of things, like a better oil cooler, bigger radiator, more water in the mix, good brake fluid, track pads.

The alternative is improving airflow to both the radiator and brakes with ducting. Even little flaps on the control arms can help with the brakes. Ducting a radiator properly tends to be, uh, a little more involved.

I think any of the max performance summer tires like hankook rs4s, pilot sport cup, a058, etc will be fine for dual purpose use.

Then it all depends on where you want to be between street car and full track car. I'm guessing more on the street car side, so maybe a more mild set of pads, less aggressive alignment, no cutting holes in the hood, etc.

[hutash]

I tracked my Audi TT many times great fun, but no mods. Just drive your stock or minimally modded car for awhile. After you have burned up a few sets of expensive tires you will know if you are really into it. right now you are just infatuated with the the four wheeled hottie. Your relationship may change when she becomes really expensive.

The best performance mod you can do for the price is learn how to drive properly. Badly tossing a car around the track thinking you are going fast is a long way from going to a good driving school and learning how to drive. After all of that, then start modding your car. I know, it's old school, but better then just spending money without the right skills.

[jamal]

Oh one other thing about cooling; if you have a little flex fuel badge on your car and can get it at the pump where you live, use that. The 30% or so more fuel required has a pretty solid cooling effect. Some of the aftermarket tuning things like a cobb accessport can often support an added on ethanol content sensor as well, but you usually need to get bigger injectors and probably a fuel pump and so for things like a direct injected focus rs or new wrx or something it can wind up being pretty involved.

On that note, a little bit higher octane than required will reduce the chances of knock, which tends to happen on turbo cars when they get hot. and pistons and bearings don't really like it. I'm not talking a full tank of 100, but just like 93 instead of 91 if it's available, or if 91 is the best you can get, then a couple of gallons of 100 will help. I'm not a tuner or an expert on the logic of every ecu out there but many of them do rely on knock sensors to adjust timing and fuel (as well as coolant temp) so if there's no knock, you'll get a little more power, or at least the rated number.

[gravitylover]

^^ Nah all we get is E10 here. E0 isn't available in the metro area and anything else is unheard of anywhere close.

[Dexter Rutecki]

Upstate most of the winter and found some places for E0, but around the city looks like 1hr away is closest.

Question, not track specific--running 5w40 instead of 5w50? Tough to find 5w50. I think last time I went w 0w50 instead. Have checked RS and other forums, and no clear consensus (but I think Ford says 0w40 can be used--why not 5w40, though?).

[MontuckyFried]

The best performance mod you can do for the price is learn how to drive properly. Badly tossing a car around the track thinking you are going fast is a long way from going to a good driving school and learning how to drive. After all of that, then start modding your car. I know, it's old school, but better then just spending money without the right skills.

Solid point, hut! Kinda like learning to ski. Lessons are typically going to help you have a WAY better time. The people on the mountain who are always suffering the most are the first timers whose friends somehow got them up the chair lift for the first time and now they have to survive the trek back to the base. I would imagine racing would be much the same way. A lesson could be the difference between you hitting those apexes like a boss -or- crashing your car like a Mustang driver exiting a Cars and Coffee meet. Which driver do YOU want to be?

[gravitylover]

Upstate most of the winter and found some places for E0, but around the city looks like 1hr away is closest.

Question, not track specific--running 5w40 instead of 5w50? Tough to find 5w50. I think last time I went w 0w50 instead. Have checked RS and other forums, and no clear consensus (but I think Ford says 0w40 can be used--why not 5w40, though?).

Where are you finding it only an hour out? The nearest to me that I'm aware of is in Poughkeepsie 45 minutes north.

I've been finding it easier to get oil online than in the local stores, partly because it's less expensive and partly because it's always available in 5 quart jugs. In the winter you can run the 0W40 but the rest of the year I'd want a bit heavier. I like Castrol Edge and the Toyota branded oil the best. The Toyota oil has just about the best shear characteristics of all and it usually runs about $5-6 per quart at the dealer and comes in 6 quart boxes.

[Dexter Rutecki]

Some LI town about an hour from the city (assuming no traffic LIE), also one north but I don't think Poughkeepsie. Based on an E0 map, so may not be true.

[Mazderati]

I run manufacturer-specified viscosity unless there is documented proof something else is better. And I would be especially weary of using lighter weight oil in a turbo car that sees track use.

[willywhit]

my buddy ran his new rsr at sebring last weekend

[Dexter Rutecki]

Yeah, that's pretty awesome (only watched first 6 minutes). Love it

[MontuckyFried]

my buddy ran his new rsr at sebring last weekend

GEEZ!!! Dude was hauling ass down the straight and the pace that the car was able to scrub speed for the first turn kind of blew my mind and then it was "only" doing 90... on a turn. I feel wholly inadequate about my driving skills now. Thanks for sharing. That was badass. You got any pics of the outside of his car?

[Aldo]

And that was in the rain


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[BmillsSkier]

I fucking love how high a flat 6 lives in the revs.

[The Reverend Floater]

Ummm...48 posts?

CHECK THE FUCKING SPARE.

/thread

[Timberridge]

I fucking love how high a flat 6 lives in the revs.

Yuck. Not sure if that's the gearbox over the top but that sounds like a dentists drill. Ughh.