Mask mandate on federal lands

[powdork]

Mythbuster - masks and exercise
https://www.who.int/images/default-s...mb-1920v.jpeg?

That link doesn't go where you think it does

[mtnjam]

Isn't Maroon a Bugs Bunny reference?

It's ultra maroon.

Sincerely, Mel Blanc.

[mtnjam]

Sooooooo.... does this apply to ski areas and backcountry?

Biden's first executive order will require masks on federal property

https://www.cnn.com/2021/01/20/healt...ive/index.html

Well, if someone is close enough to me to bug me about putting my mask up then they are too close and I'll tell you and your drooling dog to get the fuck out of my 6' bubble.
Yeah, no, I will not be masking up in the backcountry where I go to seek refuge and solitude from people.

[ptavv]

Here's a lab study measuring a variety of physiology variables in exercise to exhausation among participants wearing cloth masks, surgical masks, or no masks:
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7662944/

The latest narrative update review on mask wearing has a specific section on physiology effects (there are none at rest, at exercise results are mixed but "clinically minor physiologic changes have sometimes been shown when healthy volunteers do intensive exercise while wearing tightly fitting [medical] respirators (68, 92–94), those wearing medical (94, 95) and cloth (96) masks showed no physiologic changes during moderate or intensive exercise."):
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/art.../#__sec11title

Lest you believe the hyperbolic WaPo article cited earlier that used a bad model to say that polyester masks are bad, here's some actual evidence (pdf link) showing that synthetic masks are definitely superior to no mask, though they're the worst kind of mask overall (but, crucially, still better than nothing): https://pubs.acs.org/doi/pdf/10.1021/acsnano.0c05025; the figures in the pdf are easy enough to understand, but the article was written up and described in less technical language by NPR here: https://www.npr.org/sections/goatsan...s-and-yourself

[jono]

Buffs for appearances only. Keeps the Karen's at bay I guess?

https://www.washingtonpost.com/lifes...9a6_story.html

Bullshit Duke study was bullshit. Still is. If you run out of maroons here and get your sarcasm meter in good calibration and still need something to irritate you, go ahead and read the actual report. It's horrifyingly stupid that anyone would publish something using data with a CI that big and claim it meant something. Ultimately they walked it back a bit, but the WaPo horse is miles from the barn.

Buffs can't be the best thing, but they help slow things down and reduce distance traveled. Definitely better than nothing if you're outside and not too close anyway.

Of course, if they were really good we'd all die from too much lung exercise--or be in the best shape of our lives. So take it all with a grain of salt.

[XXX-er]

IME nordic was a good place to meet fit women

[ptavv]

Well, if someone is close enough to me to bug me about putting my mask up then they are too close and I'll tell you and your drooling dog to get the fuck out of my 6' bubble.

Yeah, no, I will not be masking up in the backcountry where I go to seek refuge and solitude from people.

This is a totally reasonable course of action! There's no reason to mask up when you're not around other people, or you're only close by people with whom you are already sharing a bunch of air (whether in the car or in a house or whatever). Being outdoors, especially with even a light breeze, does far more to reduce transmissibility of aerosols and droplets than anything else. If you're close by strangers in parking lots, bathrooms, lines, etc, masking up is good for you and for everyone else.

In the year that COVID has been circulating in the world there are uncountable super spreader events, but they all share one thing in common: indoor ventilation. There are zero outbreaks (which is different than zero transmissions, which there have been) that are associated with activity outdoors. Though there are lots of outbreaks associated with people gathering indoors before or after outdoor activity, so don't let your guard down.

[powdork]

Yeah, no, I will not be masking up in the backcountry where I go to seek refuge and solitude from people.

nor do you have to. that's not what the order refers to.

[mtnjam]

Jessie approves paying to skate ski:
Attachment 359100

Clearly a need for a mask in this circumstance

[BCMtnHound]

Just here to emphasis the pleasure of a great stride or skate along groomed trail. And for old Goat, best way to get the gears figured out is on flat ground following a little person, in either dicipline. Can't go fast with the kids, so slow deliberate strides working on technique does wonders. Then it's just a matter of matching that skill with the lungs.
I'm on the skinny sticks almost every day there is enough snowpack on the ground to permit. A thin year this year below 1200m, where our groomed trails are, but for a $100 season's pass (includes bike trails in summer) and only a 10min drive from the door, I m not complaining. In contrast, the closest real ski hill is >1.5hrs away with >$110/day pass, or at the least the backcountry is a 20min sled ride in from the parking lot. So sad there is no Birki festival this year locally (or elsewhere I suspect).

Oh, and there isn't enough people here to be close enough to care about masking up on any of the trails. After 6pm, I have yet to even run into anyone in the parking lot let alone on the trails. The clear skies and moon of the past week has been glorious. All the issues of this past year in the woods down south sure makes me appreciate living in the asscrack of the northern Columbias.

[John_B]

My 300 buck nordic pass is consistently the best purchase of the winter. Its phenomenal to get out for an hour or two while the sun is shining. Plus it gives me justification to drink more beer and eat ice cream.

[Core Shot]

That link doesn't go where you think it does

Sorry.
It was supposed to be the image from the pull quote.
https://www.who.int/emergencies/dise...zT8#exercising

[Danno]

Buffs for appearances only. Keeps the Karen's at bay I guess?

https://www.washingtonpost.com/lifes...9a6_story.html

That study was debunked a long time ago.

[Shredhead]

Skate skiing on a great groomed trail is one of my favorite things to do. The Aspen —> Snowmass trail system is a joy...even with a mask.


Sent from my iPhone using TGR Forums

Especially since it’s free!
It was nice out there today.

[bodywhomper]

That study was debunked a long time ago.

I wanted to share a simple debunking of this study and couldn’t find something other than the discussion in this forum. The Duke study has been amplified and echoed a lot.

The google doc/Linsey Marr team describe using the Bill Nye candle blow out approach to determine effectiveness.

For me free pass/side hussle, I get to tell people to wear their mask over their mouth and nose in lift lines and congregating base areas at the ski hill. Most people are compliant, but a few have been shits.

I’m glad this new rule is in effect. The post office has been a shitty superspreader situation.

[old goat]

Right now I have a nordic pass at Royal Gorge as an add on to my midweek Sugar Bowl Pass. I think next year I may go for a less restricted pass so I can XC on the weekends--15 minutes up the road.
My skate technique is actually ok, I've been skating on ice skates and Alpine skis since I was a kid and I have skated XC though not nearly as much as classic. Still at 70 V1 for me is high gear, V2 and V2 alternate are overdrive. But I think I'll give it another try. You guys have talked me into it.

[Danno]

I wanted to share a simple debunking of this study and couldn’t find something other than the discussion in this forum. The Duke study has been amplified and echoed a lot.

The google doc/Linsey Marr team describe using the Bill Nye candle blow out approach to determine effectiveness.

For me free pass/side hussle, I get to tell people to wear their mask over their mouth and nose in lift lines and congregating base areas at the ski hill. Most people are compliant, but a few have been shits.

I’m glad this new rule is in effect. The post office has been a shitty superspreader situation.

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/08/17/w...ers-masks.html

Mask testing has consistently shown that any face covering will block at least a small percentage of droplets generated when we speak or cough. The notion that a fabric gaiter will instead create more particles by splicing big droplets into smaller droplets is unlikely, experts say.

“The fabrics are not acting as a sharp sieve,” said Linsey Marr, a professor of civil and environmental engineering at Virginia Tech who is one of the world’s leading authorities on aerosols. “That’s not how filtration works.”

But rather than speculate, Dr. Marr worked with Jin Pan, a Virginia Tech graduate student who studies biological particles, to test two types of gaiters using methods similar to those required by the National Institute for Occupational Safety and Health for testing masks.

They decided to use foam heads to test gaiters as they are worn in real life, rather than tearing up a gaiter and testing just a small piece of fabric. One gaiter was a single-layer fabric made of 100 percent polyester. The other was a two-layer gaiter, made with 87 percent polyester and 13 percent elastane, a material often called spandex or Lycra.

The researchers used a liquid salt solution and a medical nebulizer to simulate saliva and to direct the particles through a tube in the foam head with a gaiter placed over the nose and the mouth. Special instruments measured the quantity and the size of droplets that were able to sneak through the mask.

Both gaiters prevented 100 percent of very large, 20-micron droplets from splattering another foam head just 30 centimeters away. Both masks blocked 50 percent or more of one-micron aerosols. The single layer gaiter blocked only 10 percent of 0.5-micron particles, while the two-layer gaiter blocked 20 percent. Notably, when the single-layer gaiter was doubled, it blocked more than 90 percent of all particles measured. By comparison, a homemade cotton T-shirt mask, recommended by the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, blocked about 40 percent of the smallest particles.

https://www.runnersworld.com/news/a3...effectiveness/

And that’s important to remember—the study performed by Duke researchers was designed to evaluate a simple method to test how well masks worked, said Brian Labus, Ph.D., MPH, assistant professor in the School of Public Health at the University of Nevada Las Vegas. “People have really gone overboard with their interpretation of this study. The goal of the study was not actually to evaluate masks,” Labus says.

As part of that evaluation, they conducted a rough test of a few masks, and now that they have a method that works, they can move on to rigorous testing of different masks.

Which is what researchers at the University of Georgia recently did. They used a version of the testing method performed in the first study out of Duke University to test the effectiveness of gaiters at slowing droplet spread. Researchers compared the effectiveness of gaiters against no mask at all as well as a variety of two-layer, washable, breathable cloth masks. The results showed that single-layer gaiters provided a 77-percent average reduction in respiratory droplets compared to wearing no face covering at all and multi-layer gaiters provided a 96-percent average reduction in respiratory droplets compared to wearing no face covering at all. Additionally, researchers observed that two-layer masks provided an 81-percent average reduction in respiratory droplets compared to wearing no face covering at all.

[tellybele]

Royal Gorge is the coolest place I have ever skated. I was trippin' looking at the trail map when I saw lifts. Did 2 days there and stayed in Truckee. You got it made!

[JerkPorkins]

It's really how you wear the neck gaiters. If it's touching your lips, it will be much less effective, than letting it hang with a gap between your mouth and the fabric. The polyester ones don't filter as well as the cotton blend ones. Put one on and put your hand in front of your face and blow, to test them out.

[bodywhomper]

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/08/17/w...ers-masks.html



https://www.runnersworld.com/news/a3...effectiveness/

Thanks!

[skizix]

It's really how you wear the neck gaiters. If it's touching your lips, it will be much less effective, than letting it hang with a gap between your mouth and the fabric. The polyester ones don't filter as well as the cotton blend ones. Put one on and put your hand in front of your face and blow, to test them out.

Seems like a pretty bulletproof scientific analysis, haha!

I wear a buff when mtb-ing or trail running, and only pull it up when passing folks - cuz I assume it does better than nothing, allows me to breath 1/2-decently, and puts peoples minds at ease. Definitely not appropriate for any indoor visits (grocery store etc) though, and it pisses me off seeing people wearing those or bandanas in those situations - fucking deadly pandemic nearly a year on now...find a decent fucking mask already!

[old goat]

I like the guy who was wearing a small bandana that only covered the left side of his mouth. He wanted to get on the chair with me. I wasn't having it, neither were the other people he asked. And there was zero line. And he was skiing in jeans. Weird.

[JerkPorkins]

Seems like a pretty bulletproof scientific analysis, haha!

I wear a buff when mtb-ing or trail running, and only pull it up when passing folks - cuz I assume it does better than nothing, allows me to breath 1/2-decently, and puts peoples minds at ease. Definitely not appropriate for any indoor visits (grocery store etc) though, and it pisses me off seeing people wearing those or bandanas in those situations - fucking deadly pandemic nearly a year on now...find a decent fucking mask already!

Well, I am a scientist, bro.

[PB]

Back off, man ..... I'm a pseudo-scientist.

[bodywhomper]

I have 5 masks. I just did the bill nye candle blow-out test. Only one failure: double-upped lightweight buff-brand merino tube.

Passing the test: icebreaker mask, v-sixtyfour mask, livinguard 3-layer mask, primal mask w/o the n95 insert.