Suggestions for a at 120+ underfoot touring ski

[themalletor]

I love my 186 cm BD Helio 116s. Not quite over 120 underfoot, but they're so much fun in deep conditions and aren't too bad on the skin track with their ~1650 gram weight.

[galibier_numero_un]

I think you’d like the bmt’s, Thom. Traditional mount, can be driven but also quite loose. A style that gets along with gpo’s transfers quite directly.

Next level of float compared to 187 ul gpo’s. I think the 186 bmt is probably 2cm longer

I wouldn’t go sub 120 for a dedicated pow meadow skipper. Protest, bmt, nocta, the blue lotus or even the 138. These will float well enough to make 4 inches of maritime feel like a pow day in untracked bc skiing


Sent from my iPhone using TGR Forums

Thanks, this (BMT) has my attention, and (as much as I dismissed it for irrational reasons) so does the Pescado. I have time, and now more skis to obsess over. It makes sense to jump a full width category (whatever that means), for reasons we both agree on.

I do wonder however whether the Pescado will be nervous feeling in less than hero snow.

...Thom

[kid-kapow]

BMT122s are excellent, but they are getting increasingly hard to find out in the wild - especially new. I think the later versions dropped a tiny bit of weight too, at least my first year 176 weigh the same as my second to last year 186s (1860gr ish). I have yet to ski the latter, but regret not buying a pair of newer 176s to keep for future use.

They are also (like all BMTs) surprisingly good on groomers/hard snow, though their (a bit) taller splay with similarly deep rocker lines (compared to BMT109s) mean that you need to ski them with a definite outside ski focus - or the inside ski will turn much faster than the outside. BMT109s and 90s can be skied however you want on harder snow imho wrt edge grip.

Bent Chetlers are the comparable offering if you want a much more centered stance. People seem to really like them. You could also consider Armada Whitewalkers if you want the same/very similar shape, but in a slightly narrower shape, though at that width you could also consider ON3P BGtour or Moment Wildcat Tour, or their Chipotle Banana Tour if you feel like paying 1300 for a pair of skis...

[Jongle]

Thanks, this (BMT) has my attention, and (as much as I dismissed it for irrational reasons) so does the Pescado. I have time, and now more skis to obsess over. It makes sense to jump a full width category (whatever that means), for reasons we both agree on.

I do wonder however whether the Pescado will be nervous feeling in less than hero snow.

...Thom

I've toured on the Pescado a bunch, mostly in PNW pow but also a wide range of shitty backcountry and inbounds conditions. I'll say this - it's more capable than you'd expect for a lightweight 124-underfoot ski that has a ton of camber and sidecut. It always feels predictable and the tails are easy to release, maybe because of the swallowtail cutout. But compared to the Bent Chet 120, the Pescado is much turnier and wants to pull you across the fall line more, and the huge Pescado shovels get knocked around a fair bit if you're trying to ski hard in crud/chop.

The Pescado remains my favourite ski for meadow-skipping and making mellow pow way more fun.

[nickel]

Just because it seems to have fallen on deaf ears, i will reiterate: UL protest.

[eskido]

^^^this^^^
I don’t have an UL pair but have toured on my Enduro/Carbon’s and was pretty blown away how great they were everywhere from deep up top to super sun baked crusty down below. I haven’t toured on them a lot because, well they’re heavy, and I’d never get rid of em, but if I were to do it over I would for sure pick up an UL pair so I could get pow day and touring duty out of em.
On that note, that Lithic Arlo 122 REEAAALY has my attention

[pfluffenmeister]

The Arlo looked pretty sweet.
Like a narrow Protest.

[eskido]

Now fully rockered

[STLHD]

Just because it seems to have fallen on deaf ears, i will reiterate: UL protest.

I haven't skied any of Praxis' UL offerings. How well does the UL protest maintain the feel of the standard?

FWIW, I've been touring on Pescados for the past three seasons and they're such a fun deep pow/tree ski. The weight and size is great for touring, and, living in a place that gets its fair of funky snow, it handles all conditions well.

[F33d3r]

I also love the Pescado for meadow skiping. Very poppy and fun, tight turner and tons of float. They are very nice for tele. They are shorter than most of my skis and the shorter length is very handy in tight Norwegian birch wood.

[galibier_numero_un]

Darn! The Pescado has suddenly floated up my list, but the BMT 122 still holds my attention. I've never been on a full rockered ski however (BMT).

It's a growing short list, however, which started with a BG Tour and UL FRS (and a UL Ullr having entered the mix, and ... a +10, UL GPO?).

The key question with the Pescado is whether the short radius involves too much of a trade-off in stability in manky snow. I love the idea of maneuverability however (tight, Colorado trees), and I think there's only one way to find out about them.

Somewhat relevant diatribe follows (brew a fresh pot - you've been warned) ... with COVID putting the kibosh on my season, I have too much time on my hands ...

Reference skis:

Note: all that remains from this list are the two, 182 GPOs (Vipecs & Helio 200s) and the CD 114s (MNC bindings).

• 182 GPO (MAP/Carbon/Nylon Top/flex #4)
• 182 GPO (Enduro/Veneer) - bought used, flex feels like #4 (assume Enduro core because of weight, don't know about carbon)
• 187 GPO (Enduro/Veneer) - bought used, flex feels like #4 (assume Enduro core because of weight, don't know about carbon)
• 182 Quixote (Enduro/Veneer/Carbon/flex #4)
• 182 Down CD 114
• 184 Billy Goat (the last year before asym. - 2015?)
• 186 Billy Goat (2014)
• 187 Protest of unknown provenance (custom top sheet, so who knows?) The pair weighed 10.4 Lbs. which is on the heavy side.

Much of this is Praxis-centric, but I think you can extrapolate some of this to other ski construction - especially in terms of the behavior of damp vs. more lively skis.

Turn Radius:

One emerging pattern is the predictability of the longer turn radius skis (the 187 GPO, the 182 Quixote, the CD 114s, and both Billy Goats). The asym. of the Quixotes was squirrely as mentioned earlier (and elsewhere), but they did some very good things in deep stuff.

I ultimately sold the 187 veneer GPOs (replacing them with the veneer 182s) - for maneuverability. I miss the 187s in wide open spaces, but the 182s were a better compromise for the terrain I find myself in.

The Downs (24m radius) feel very much like a Billy Goat "light" (stability in chop), but they have much, much better hard snow performance than the Goats, while still being very predictable in chop. If someone held a gun to my head to keep 2 skis, it would be my veneer GPOs and the CD114s. Both skis do pretty much everything.

But ... there's damping to consider:

Damping does seem to play a bigger role in chop than I anticipated, and the veneer in my Quixotes (with carbon) had the same feel as the other two veneer skis (not knowing whether either of those two had carbon).

All of the veneer skis have a different characteristic than the nylon topped/carbon GPOs. So, the veneer dominates the feel (irrespective of carbon), which I consider to be a good thing. I'd never do a Praxis custom build without veneer.

The veneer translates to stability, and my 182cm veneer GPOs feel more stable in chop than my 182cm nylon topped ones (both with 21m radius). So, there's one data point that turn radius is only part of the equation. The Downs mix flax into their construction, and they have a similar damped feel to the veneer (supposed to be a virtue of flax).

The Protests:

I'm gonna save comments about the Protest for another post, 'coz I'm hoping the person I passed them on to can comment. No ski can be for everyone, and I don't want to rain on the Protest parade, but the Protests were by far, the most disappointing skis that this Praxis fanboi has been on, and by a large margin.

... Thom

[ridinshockgun]

Just dropping in here for a bump and another vote for the BMT 122s. So much fun to ski.

[Tailwind]

I have Pescado’s with shifts. More than fine for funky backcountry snow... also shockingly good for bigger airs (bigger being 20-30 feet for me).

Comically fun ski. Makes a lot of mundane skiing super fun and engaging.

[meter-man]

Custom protests during spring sale.

nickel knows.

Protests or Lotus 138s or Lotus Spoons. If you're going above 120, might as well make those days the best of your life!

[meter-man]

I haven't skied any of Praxis' UL offerings. How well does the UL protest maintain the feel of the standard?

FWIW, I've been touring on Pescados for the past three seasons and they're such a fun deep pow/tree ski. The weight and size is great for touring, and, living in a place that gets its fair of funky snow, it handles all conditions well.

I'm on enduro/carbon Protest, but buddy is on the UL. LOVES them.

Galby - I own a stock FRS, that would be a good option too but I think the Protest is better. Skis pow better, and does better in crusts and funky snow too. FRS is awesome in perfect snow, but I don't get along with that design nearly as well as the Protest. I know you didn't like your Protests - actually, I'm wondering if they f'd that one up somehow, or if your bases were cupped or railed or something. I cannot imagine not liking that ski.

[Lord Thomas]

Just to muddy the water a little more, I have a pair of 191 DPS Lotus 124 Alchemists that just went heli skiing with me 3 weeks ago. They weigh 2,134 gram per ski...do not ski like a touring ski at all. The blister review sums it up pretty well. Only a little under the 10lb goal but if your boots are powerful enough they will get the job done like none of the touring skis can. That said, I'm anxiously awaiting reviews of the new Faction La Machine.

[galibier_numero_un]

Damn this thread. It got me thinking again.

Today (no thanks to @grinch) it's a +10 Rx (UL/Carbon/Veneer/Flex #3) with flatter camber. The 179 would become a 181 which would be an ideal touring length for me, and would likely come in at around 8.4 pounds (1900g) in this layup.

That's a whole lotta Rx goodness (praise alpy).

... Thom

[teamdirt]

My buddy rocks Pescados with kingpins and shreds

I’m more of Salomon QST 118 with Salomon MTN

[Jason4]

I also have a pair of Bent Chetler 120s with Shifts. I should have put some uberlight pin bindings on them and put Shifts on something narrower and heavier.

[altacoup]

Buy renegades, that way you’ll never be on top of something wishing you had renegades!



Sent from my iPad using TGR Forums

[garyfromterrace]

Black crow noctas. I'm on the 186. They replaced DPS 112 RPC 186 better than adequately for the snow I ski.

[WhetherMan]

Just to muddy the water a little more, I have a pair of 191 DPS Lotus 124 Alchemists that just went heli skiing with me 3 weeks ago. They weigh 2,134 gram per ski...do not ski like a touring ski at all. The blister review sums it up pretty well. Only a little under the 10lb goal but if your boots are powerful enough they will get the job done like none of the touring skis can. That said, I'm anxiously awaiting reviews of the new Faction La Machine.

Are you on the spoons or the 2.0?

I have a pair of the 2.0 I picked up earlier this year, but it's been such a shit year that I still haven't gotten them in deep snow. Or shallow snow for that matter. Just a day banging around on hardpack. I mean, for a 2100g ski with a 124 waist, I'd say they did well on hard pack, but really for a ski like this, who cares?

I asked DPS what the difference between the spoon and the 2.0 was and their response was, essentially "different". Totally useless.

[Lord Thomas]

I've got the spoon. Agree completely on the hardpack assessment. I got to take them up to the resort for 4 groomer runs before a heli trip. Totally comfortable on groomers and overall I think they would be a great resort pow ski. Best I can tell is that the difference is the spoon tip but not saying that based on any specific knowledge. What I can say is that they are fantastic pow skis. Big drifted turns on steep faces, wiggle through trees, jump turns down chutes...got'm all covered. Super versatile, super capable, intuitive, not at all hard to ski. Blister review is spot on. Considering putting ATK's on them for a Japan ski. Maybe the 185's for my short little man legs?

[bobinch]

Are you on the spoons or the 2.0?

I have a pair of the 2.0 I picked up earlier this year, but it's been such a shit year that I still haven't gotten them in deep snow. Or shallow snow for that matter. Just a day banging around on hardpack. I mean, for a 2100g ski with a 124 waist, I'd say they did well on hard pack, but really for a ski like this, who cares?

I asked DPS what the difference between the spoon and the 2.0 was and their response was, essentially "different". Totally useless.

A mate got the 2.0’s after trying my first gen Spoons and reckons they’re a fair bit stiffer. He preferred the Spoons. Such smooth, easy, predictable skis in all 3D conditions

[margotron]

I also have a pair of Bent Chetler 120s with Shifts. I should have put some uberlight pin bindings on them and put Shifts on something narrower and heavier.

Inserts. I’m doing it