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  1. #1
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    Moment Deathwish 190 vs. ON3P Woodsman 108/116 vs.?

    Need a little advice from collective even after a lot of searching and blister gear reviews, etc. * edit to add the Moment thread was super helpful * but still would love to hear on my personal situation.

    Me: 6', 185# 39yo with some slight back issues (recovering from bulged disc(s)) - "expert" level skier that grew up skiing in VT/NH/ME that prefers tight trees over open areas. I haven't really considered "skiing style" before but I'd say in the woods and bumps I'd rather slash turns/scrub sideways which I guess is more playful but in open areas and groomers I have a good time trying to lay a ski over. I've had plenty of ON3P/Moment/Praxis fun shapes over the years but have yet to try the Moment "triple camber".

    Situation: After years of working with my 3 mini groms that hard work is paying off and we're now able to travel beyond our local PA hills with the family to ski - got 2 weeks at Breck planned for late march and aside from the adult ski time, I need a ski that can bomb around with the littles and spend time teaching on that doubles as a fun "everyday" ski when conditions are variable and/or a single ski option to take with me on trips that is a bit more versatile than my travel ski which is a Protest in 192 which I love, but I know will be less than ideal with the kids...

    Any advice is appreciated, currently leaning towards Deathwish but would love to hear comparison on that vs. Woodsman in either 108/116 or similar types of shapes (Moment Wildcat) from those that have skied both.
    Before big games I shoot Rabies, it gives me the edge I need and itís undetectable. Only idiot losers do steroids anymore...

  2. #2
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    I am a similar size, weight, age, background, skier type, gimpness as you. No kids, haven't skied on the East Coast since 07. Used to be rad. Maybe. Never raced.
    I found the Woodsman 108 turny but not slashy. Maybe I don't lean as far forward as I thought? Idk. It surfs and feels light, but even at -2, it had a lot of tail. They were some of my first runs of the day. Maybe even of the year (early January?), but I find skis with less tail much more agreeable to slashing and slarving. Which may sound odd, since the skis I brought with me were 188 Moment Rubies (twin, fat, straight, soft, mounted -2) and mostly I now ski the 190 Qlab (had to reremember how to ski, stiff, flat tail, small turn radius, taper, front rocker, also mounted -2)
    The other 2 might be good, but again, quite center mounted, so keep in mind that you mighg want to mount -2. The Deathwish replaced the Ruby, so it's probably ridiculously easy to noodle around in tight trees. Ruby is great for that, but dated. No rocker and high camber = not surfy, especially in low angle powder.
    No longer stuck.

    Quote Originally Posted by stuckathuntermtn View Post
    Just an uneducated guess.

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by stuckathuntermtn View Post
    The other 2 might be good, but again, quite center mounted, so keep in mind that you might want to mount -2. The Deathwish replaced the Ruby, so it's probably ridiculously easy to noodle around in tight trees. Ruby is great for that, but dated. No rocker and high camber = not surfy, especially in low angle powder.
    Perfect - exactly the type of experience and thoughts I was hoping to hear - also, I'm glad you can still get after it.

    Sounds like DW is going to fit the need and preferred skiing style a bit better which is what I was gathering from all that reading. I'll give some thought to mounting options - seems like most don't recommend moving the DW mount much due to the triple camber design but I'm sure up to -2 would be fine.
    Before big games I shoot Rabies, it gives me the edge I need and itís undetectable. Only idiot losers do steroids anymore...

  4. #4
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    Haven't skied the DW so this may not be that helpful for you but I'll put in a plug for the Wildcat/Bibby, either 108 or 118. I skied the east coast up until this season and would always bring Bibby's out west with me (same shape as current Wildcat 118) and use them for everything from shitty skied out resort laps to pow days to multi-day hut trips and always had a blast. Based on your description I'd say we have a similar style - want to go sideways in tighter terrain and play around in the air but as an ex-racer I also want to go fast and hard when it's more open. From my experience the Bibby does it all. Allows you to ski more centered in deeper snow or playful conditions and steps right up when you push forward and charge. I've ridden very few skis that allowed you to do both so well. Plus it somehow skis like a fat slalom ski on groomers I've never understood how it carves so well. It definitely has more of a forward freestyle orientation so you get a lot of tail but I feel like my ON3P Viciks (first gen before the tail rocker) have way more tail and refuse to let it go despite being mounted way further back, so for me it's more about shape than mounting point.

    Anyway I know there's endless literature on the awesomeness of Bibbys, but as a fellow former east coaster obsessively trying to figure out that one perfect ski to bring out west I was always delighted with them, so just figured I'd throw that out there
    Quote Originally Posted by other grskier View Post
    well, in the three years i've been skiing i bet i can ski most anything those 'pro's' i listed can, probably

  5. #5
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    In my experience DW would be a great choice for what you're talking about. Historically it was more fun at slow speeds and jibbing than the Bibby/Wildcat because it had a softer flex pattern. I know they stiffened it up a bit a couple years back but I believe it is still a bit softer.

    I haven't skied the Woodsman, but I have a hard time imagining it is more fun given its heft and rocker profile at slow speeds than the DW (or potentially a Wildcat 108.)

    FWIW, I own and ski older gen versions of both the DW (all time favorite ski) and Bibby (close in line, but less engaging on groomers).

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wes Mantooth View Post
    It definitely has more of a forward freestyle orientation so you get a lot of tail but I feel like my ON3P Viciks (first gen before the tail rocker) have way more tail and refuse to let it go despite being mounted way further back, so for me it's more about shape than mounting point.

    Anyway I know there's endless literature on the awesomeness of Bibbys, but as a fellow former east coaster obsessively trying to figure out that one perfect ski to bring out west I was always delighted with them, so just figured I'd throw that out there
    Interesting - I know what you mean I had a pair of Viciks and my east coast daily driver are Tychoons (no tail rocker) and those things lock in pretty well. Appreciate the insight - I always wanted to get on a pair of Bibby's but my ski days to use something like that were limited while the groms were really little.



    Quote Originally Posted by doebedoe View Post
    In my experience DW would be a great choice for what you're talking about. Historically it was more fun at slow speeds and jibbing than the Bibby/Wildcat because it had a softer flex pattern. I know they stiffened it up a bit a couple years back but I believe it is still a bit softer.

    I haven't skied the Woodsman, but I have a hard time imagining it is more fun given its heft and rocker profile at slow speeds than the DW (or potentially a Wildcat 108.)

    FWIW, I own and ski older gen versions of both the DW (all time favorite ski) and Bibby (close in line, but less engaging on groomers).
    I'm strongly leaning DW at this point, will likely pull the trigger on them today. Woodsman look great and I love ON3P build quality but I know they are going to be more of a semi-directional heavy charger.
    Before big games I shoot Rabies, it gives me the edge I need and itís undetectable. Only idiot losers do steroids anymore...

  7. #7
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    Twin tips also seem more conducive to skiing with little kids. Seems like it would be easier to keep an eye on them, scrub speed and not hit them, back up and fetch a mitten or pole, whatever.

    Glad I'm not the only one who likes to go sideways in powder. Sometimes I think I just don't know how to ski.
    No longer stuck.

    Quote Originally Posted by stuckathuntermtn View Post
    Just an uneducated guess.

  8. #8
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    Another vote for the Bibby/Wildcat here. I own original versions of 190 DW and Bibby. For slithering around in tight spaces and occasional groomers Iíd go Bibby. Itís looser and releases its tails more consistently than the DW. DW is slightly better on groomers, but still isnít anywhere near the performance of a more hard snow oriented ski. I would like to try the Wildcat 108, as it probably retains the looseness of the Bibby shape while adding some quickness on firmer snow. I hoped the DW would be a narrower Bibby, but it has never quite fit that roll for me.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by stuckathuntermtn View Post
    Twin tips also seem more conducive to skiing with little kids. Seems like it would be easier to keep an eye on them, scrub speed and not hit them, back up and fetch a mitten or pole, whatever.

    Glad I'm not the only one who likes to go sideways in powder. Sometimes I think I just don't know how to ski.
    It is - skiing backwards, maneuvering around them - I use an OG pair of 180 Tahoes for that stuff and they work great.

    I don't think we're broken - I attribute it to learning to ski "parallel" and pushing those tails out rather than using ski shape


    Quote Originally Posted by Reformed View Post
    Another vote for the Bibby/Wildcat here. I own original versions of 190 DW and Bibby. For slithering around in tight spaces and occasional groomers I’d go Bibby. It’s looser and releases its tails more consistently than the DW. DW is slightly better on groomers, but still isn’t anywhere near the performance of a more hard snow oriented ski. I would like to try the Wildcat 108, as it probably retains the looseness of the Bibby shape while adding some quickness on firmer snow. I hoped the DW would be a narrower Bibby, but it has never quite fit that roll for me.
    Good insight here - I still think I'm going to go DW but if you see them in Gear Swap in April it'll be to move to the Wildcat.
    Before big games I shoot Rabies, it gives me the edge I need and itís undetectable. Only idiot losers do steroids anymore...

  10. #10
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    For whatever it's worth on the Bibby / Deathwish discussion, the original Bibby is maybe my all time favorite ski, but the Deathwish is probably in my top 5. Others have fairly accurately covered the differences - DW better on firm snow, Bibby better when it's deeper. But I love them both almost equally. I also have the Wildcat 108 - it's fine, but it feels like it lost something somewhere along the line. It's a good ski, but not a great ski - it feels a little confused as to whether it wants to be a jibby ski for dorking around or a charging ski that kills the whole mountain at speed. The end result is that it's kind of neither, which is maybe good for some people but it hasn't quite clicked for me.

    Haven't skied the Woodsman, but I want to.

  11. #11
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    Sounds like a DW is right up your alley. It is easy to ski and has incredible versatility. The other skis you mentioned are more one dimensional and probably not great candidates for PA skiing.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by toast2266 View Post
    For whatever it's worth on the Bibby / Deathwish discussion, the original Bibby is maybe my all time favorite ski, but the Deathwish is probably in my top 5. Others have fairly accurately covered the differences - DW better on firm snow, Bibby better when it's deeper. But I love them both almost equally. I also have the Wildcat 108 - it's fine, but it feels like it lost something somewhere along the line. It's a good ski, but not a great ski - it feels a little confused as to whether it wants to be a jibby ski for dorking around or a charging ski that kills the whole mountain at speed. The end result is that it's kind of neither, which is maybe good for some people but it hasn't quite clicked for me.

    Haven't skied the Woodsman, but I want to.
    Quote Originally Posted by tenB View Post
    Sounds like a DW is right up your alley. It is easy to ski and has incredible versatility. The other skis you mentioned are more one dimensional and probably not great candidates for PA skiing.
    Thanks, and thanks all for the insight - l have the 190 DW in hand and I like the way it looks and flexes - triple camber certainly has an interesting look to it. Certainly not a ski for the local hills but I'll get out on soon it just to feel it out.

    *edit to add Moment's site says pre-order but for a few of their models but it looks like they've already pressed a bunch of batches - these and Bella's for my wife shipped out immediately.
    Before big games I shoot Rabies, it gives me the edge I need and itís undetectable. Only idiot losers do steroids anymore...

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