Used car pricing these days

**Bobcat Sig** · 01-13-2021, 11:50 AM

Originally Posted by AdironRider

I've got an 04 Lexus GX470 that I bought 5 years ago for 14k with 90k miles. I've since put about 40k miles on it and I bet I could sell it today for more than I paid. Outside of gas and a couple oil changes, I've put 220 bucks into it for a rear coil spring conversion. The 4.7 Toyota v8 is the new 22RE in terms of reliability reputation and you will get paid.

Totally agreed. It's a unicorn among the 'Yota bros. Layer on the overlanders and your GX is a wet dream for that crowd.

Oddly, it's now become a weird way to park some cash, these sought-after used vehicles.

**gravitylover** · 01-13-2021, 11:54 AM

There are some deals out there if you figure out who the long term unemployed are. That and the other end, the wealthy, just want their "old" 3-5 year old cars gone and they're dumping them. As noted, older suv's and pickups are generally going for silly money and what were affordable sporty rides have gone up in price quite a bit.

**El Chupacabra** · 01-13-2021, 12:11 PM

The used car pricing goofiness also factored into our shopping for Mrs C's replacement vehicle. We looked at a bunch of SUV/crossovers -- and used prices just didn't save enough $ vs buying new, along with the other pros/cons analysis. What I think of as being the sweet spot for buying used is something 2-3 year old, low miles, 1 owner, still under warranty. Something like that would save maybe $3-5K, if that, and that just isn't enough savings IMHO.

So I'm going Friday to pick up a 2021 RAV4 hybrid, AWD, with a few options. Pricing came to a little over invoice, so I'm happy enough with that.

**Percy Rideout** · 01-13-2021, 12:44 PM

Originally Posted by AdironRider

I've got an 04 Lexus GX470 that I bought 5 years ago for 14k with 90k miles. I've since put about 40k miles on it and I bet I could sell it today for more than I paid. Outside of gas and a couple oil changes, I've put 220 bucks into it for a rear coil spring conversion. The 4.7 Toyota v8 is the new 22RE in terms of reliability reputation and you will get paid.

Had a 04 4runner with the 4.7 and loved that car. I bet you can get $14k for that car. today.

I follow a few Tundra groups on FB. The used car market is ridiculios right now.

**fatnslow** · 01-13-2021, 01:01 PM

Originally Posted by MontuckyFried

Yup. Very true observation. Seems the best "deals" these days, at least in my area, are beater mini-vans and mid-size sedans. I'm not opposed to the beat up minivan where each quarter panel's a different color route for my next whip. Haha.

DO NOT DISRESPECT THE MINIVAN ! I bet you can find quite a few strictly cash body shops run by eastern europeans or hispanic folks to paint it for a few hundy.

**johnnyg82** · 01-13-2021, 01:14 PM

Originally Posted by MontuckyFried

Yup. Very true observation. Seems the best "deals" these days, at least in my area, are beater mini-vans and mid-size sedans. I'm not opposed to the beat up minivan where each quarter panel's a different color route for my next whip. Haha.

Wasn’t that a special option for VW’s, tell people it’s the Harlequin edition and it’s totally believable.

**stuckathuntermtn** · 01-13-2021, 04:12 PM

Car pricing seems nuts all around. Best deal seems to be private party lightly used. Especially if it has any blemishes, like a small crack in the bumper. Only way to get a good deal on a Subaru, lol.
Bank gave me a 4 year loan rather quickly. Not the best interest rate at 6.5%, but it doesn't really matter since I borrowed so little and the term is so short, but that's what they were offering for a 2014.

**char_** · 01-13-2021, 04:17 PM

This spring, when the coronavirus pandemic started to spread, auto plants temporarily shut down operations for safety. That has created a shortage of new-car inventory, pushing more people onto the used-car market.
Meanwhile, plenty of people are looking for cars. Partly that's because of concerns over the safety of carpooling or riding public transit (although transit systems are taking steps to promote safety).
There was a policy-based boost in demand as well, as buyers put their coronavirus relief checks toward new vehicles.

https://www.npr.org/2020/10/28/92797...rough-the-roof

**stuckathuntermtn** · 01-13-2021, 04:22 PM

Originally Posted by liv2ski

I have been looking at cars for awhile and last March was the low. By July they were much higher and over the last month or so they have started to soften again. I hope to buy in March if they are lower. GLWTS

That makes sense. I bought in August, which is probably the worst time to buy a car, price-wise, but I had a running vehicle I wasn't gonna get much for, so I was able to wait till I saw something I more or less had to have at a price that was very fair and circumstances could line up. It helped that the seller was able to work with me through covid craziness because I think he already had inherited another vehicle. He was very patient, but I'd say it took at least a week to do the transaction. I think we were both new to private auto sales.

**stuckathuntermtn** · 01-13-2021, 04:24 PM

Originally Posted by El Chupacabra

I'm thinking it's a mix of new car price creep and Covid belt-tightening. I've been casually shopping for a replacement truck for about two years and prices are increasing during that time, while the truck I'm shopping for is just getting older - so it should be getting cheaper, not more expensive. (A 2011-2016 Ford, so not like it's a classic that's appreciating in value.) A new version of that truck will be $50K+, and I'm not willing to pay that much for something I don't need all the time.

I think it's also 7 year loans. People are really getting themselves into 7 years on a fucking car. I would also guess it's all active safety features that are now standard. Active lane keeping, blind spot monitoring, rear backup sensors with cross traffic, sign reading, preemptive braking. There's so many cameras and sensors and so much machine learning/AI involved. And then there's the old supply/demand.

**Conundrum** · 01-13-2021, 04:34 PM

Originally Posted by AdironRider

A perfect car for $150 in the late 90's? No way, that is lower than scrap value.

A car that runs and drives has an inherent value well above the average monthly electricity payment, or a week's groceries.

I bought a mini truck for 400 once, it had massive oil blow by and needed 4 tires, ball joints, and the interior was a crime scene. It ran though, but I wouldn't call it perfect.

No way? Why is it that because it hasn't happened to you it couldn't happen to someone else?

I bought a Subaru GL with 180k miles for $50 in 2000. We were at a college house party for a girl who just graduated and her folks bought her a new car for graduation. We were drinking century club and she was bitching that the scrap folks would only give her $50 for it and it wasn't starting. It had a new CD player recently installed so I told her I would give her $50 and she wouldn't have to deal with it thinking I would take the CD deck for my truck and deal with the scrap people. Went over the next morning, gave her $50 and started to pull the deck. Found a loose wire, plugged the connectors in, started it up and drove it for about 10k miles before trading it to a buddy for some weed. Saw it around town for another 5-10 years.

**easyrdr** · 01-13-2021, 05:39 PM

Conundrum's story reminds me of my own. I traded my acoustic guitar (maybe worth $100) to my neighbor for a 1964 IHC Scout 80. The thing ran like a champ. Guy that traded me skipped town and never gave me the title. Being a 20 year old college kid I just drove it for 3 years with no insurance or registration or proof of ownership. I just figured if we got pulled over we would just run. When I left school, I just left it with the keys in it. I always wondered what happened to that one.

**glademaster** · 01-13-2021, 05:44 PM

Originally Posted by MontuckyFried

Yeah. It's kind of bonkers what used cars have been going for, although I'd argue that's been a trend ever since "Cars for Clunkers" took so many used cars out of the picture. I do miss the good old days when you could get a decent, reliable little beater for a few hundred bucks or a much nicer car for a couple grand. Now people are wanting SO much money for old POS's with like 200K. Unless it's European. Then it's worthless, like my old Volvo or Audi. Good reason for that tho. Haha.

What a steaming pile of thinly veiled racist horseshit. That program only got a couple/few million (2-4, IIRC) cars off the road, and it happened almost 15 years ago. The cars that people ditched "clunkers" for are the cheap used cars of today. I utilized that program to purchase a Subaru Outback in 2009. I would bet you $50 that Subaru isn't still on the road today.

**stuckathuntermtn** · 01-13-2021, 06:56 PM

What struck you as racist about that? Slightly out of touch, maybe, seeing as how long ago that was, but then I have no idea what he means by old. There's also just inflation, but whatever.

Was it his use of the term "good old days"? Like 2005? C4C was are 2010?

**MontuckyFried** · 01-13-2021, 07:31 PM

Originally Posted by glademaster

What a steaming pile of thinly veiled racist horseshit. That program only got a couple/few million (2-4, IIRC) cars off the road, and it happened almost 15 years ago. The cars that people ditched "clunkers" for are the cheap used cars of today. I utilized that program to purchase a Subaru Outback in 2009. I would bet you $50 that Subaru isn't still on the road today.

Lol wut? What in the ever living hell was "racist" about that? God, man. You must always have a headache from all the intense squinting you must do all the time straining to look for racism in literally everything you see.

Originally Posted by stuckathuntermtn

What struck you as racist about that? Slightly out of touch, maybe, seeing as how long ago that was, but then I have no idea what he means by old. There's also just inflation, but whatever.

Was it his use of the term "good old days"? Like 2005? C4C was are 2010?

While true that it was so long ago that inflation has long since took over, minimizing it's long term effects. HOWEVER, Cash for Clunkers did kick off a temporary (about 2 year) period where due to low inventory for cheap-o cars, from which we've never quite recovered as people became sort of accustomed to the now higher prices. Add in inflation, certain demands, oodles of tech and stuff, and there's just no going back now. The "good old days" for my car buying was the 90s and early 00s FWIW. Great times to be an automotive enthusiast teenager for sure! Even 60s/70s muscle cars just weren't that popular yet and were also waaaaay cheaper than today. On top of all the rad Japanese cars, I also had friends with old Nova SS's, Camaros, Mustangs, even an old hearse based on a Mercury Cougar wagon (the ultimate high school car). All dirt cheap and lovingly restored in our spare time or in auto shop class. Funny how I could have afforded any of those old kick ass cars in freaking high school and now that I'm hitting 40 they get more and more out of reach with each passing year. BringATrailer ain't helping things either. Recently saw like a 89 Jetta go for like 20K. Great car back in it's day, but really? The nostalgia factor is also reaching stupid heights, further driving prices. ...le sigh...

**stuckathuntermtn** · 01-13-2021, 11:33 PM

That makes me also think of "right to repair"
Look it up if you're not familiar with it.

**stuckathuntermtn** · 01-14-2021, 12:43 AM

Stumbled across this
https://www.cnet.com/roadshow/news/a...rce=reddit.com

**gravitylover** · 01-14-2021, 05:50 AM

New car supply is about to take another hit. Apparently there's a computer chip shortage and they're shutting down production plants. FCA shut down 2 in Canada, GM shut down a big one in MX, Honda is shutting down or reducing capacity in 4 here in the US, Toyota shut down in China and there are others in Europe. Apple, Samsung and other electronics makers are eating up the global supply and the auto industry is taking it on the chin.

**CascadeLuke** · 01-14-2021, 08:38 AM

Originally Posted by El Chupacabra

The used car pricing goofiness also factored into our shopping for Mrs C's replacement vehicle. We looked at a bunch of SUV/crossovers -- and used prices just didn't save enough $ vs buying new, along with the other pros/cons analysis. What I think of as being the sweet spot for buying used is something 2-3 year old, low miles, 1 owner, still under warranty. Something like that would save maybe $3-5K, if that, and that just isn't enough savings IMHO.

I am the same way. Was watching the used Tundra market soar partly after the new Tundra inventory was consumed. Then apparently the ‘21 production started again in October and Toyota had some dealerships with surplus at the end of the sales year. One thing led to another and I got a new limited for $6k off plus extended warranty at 1/3 price when there where dozens of 3 year old comparable Tundras (50k miles +) commanding the same or more money all said. Grabbed the last year of V8 and feeling good about it for a lifetime truck.
Then when selling; last week listed a Subaru Crosstrek for my FIL. Post went up at 4:00 pm and the next morning at 10:45 we were at the bank transferring funds from the buyer. We only came down $350 from our top of market asking price.

**Name Redacted** · 01-14-2021, 08:50 AM

I sold my wife’s Outback for double what the dealer offered us for trade in a few months ago.

Wondering what I’d get for my 2020 Taco. It is kind of a unicorn. Manual, double cab, off-road. Love the truck but feel like I’ll need a full size truck for summer and camping. Regretting the short bed mostly.

ETA: KBB says it is worth about what I paid last March a week before the shutdown. Hmm.

Also, what is the best way to sell a new vehicle? Dealers lowball me, but selling to a private party and handling ~$40K seems sketchy. I was emailing with a dealer and they offered $10K less than KBB for my trade in and were asking retail for a new Tundra. I specifically told the guy to shove it right up his ass.

**bagtagley** · 01-14-2021, 09:02 AM

Dealer trade-in has been a joke for a while. They know people can do better at CarMax, so it seems like they've just stopped trying. Our past two new car purchases had enough incentives piled on, and CarMax is so easy and has been very reasonable on purchase price, I didn't have much reason to negotiate the trade.

**El Chupacabra** · 01-14-2021, 09:05 AM

For private car sales, I like to do the paperwork and get payment done all at the buyer's bank office. The bank teller can issue a check over the counter direct to me (seller) with funds already transferred out of buyer's account. No chance of fraud. Bank has also always been willing to run a couple of photocopies of the completed paperwork so both parties have records. It's also a nice secure environment.

Seems safer than meeting in a parking lot with an envelope full of cash.

In Covid times, not sure if the bank lobby option is still available.

**AdironRider** · 01-14-2021, 09:09 AM

If you are trying to trade a 1 year old car you are going to get hosed by every dealer in the land, because they know you don't like the car. It is pretty rare to turn a car like that around so quickly.

I certainly wouldn't want to see a guy show up with 40k of cash in a bag, but a cashiers check from a bank I recognize I'd feel pretty good about. That is basically cash and he can't put a stop on it. (I think they technically can, but they have to say they lost it and there is a 180 day waiting period and if you cash the check in the meantime the money is yours).

I'm also more and more convinced BAT is a money laundering scheme.

**Name Redacted** · 01-14-2021, 09:12 AM

Originally Posted by El Chupacabra

For private car sales, I like to do the paperwork and get payment done all at the buyer's bank office. The bank teller can issue a check over the counter direct to me (seller) with funds already transferred out of buyer's account. No chance of fraud. Bank has also always been willing to run a couple of photocopies of the completed paperwork so both parties have records. It's also a nice secure environment.

Seems safer than meeting in a parking lot with an envelope full of cash.

In Covid times, not sure if the bank lobby option is still available.

Yeah that’d be the plan I guess.
Of course I sold my wife’s car in November, while I was isolating with a positive Covid test, and was very upfront about it with the buyers. I took a check, but through some internet sleuthing realized that we knew a lot of the same people and the guy was legit. It was only $7K though.