Mountaineering-ish Ski that Carves Groomers?

[AKbruin]

First off, I fully acknowledge that this is a odd combination and that there's no ski out there that's both an awesome carving ski and big-day mountaineering ski. Whatever ski I get will necessitate compromise on both ends.

With that said, I'm looking to replace my 185cm Blizzard ZeroG 95s, on which I've probably put over 150 days. (My other skis are 189cm Backland 107s.) I've often use the ZeroG for 8-hour+ days in Tahoe and the Eastern Sierra, depending on snow conditions. But I also frequently skin up my local ski resort for 1-4 laps before work. I like to drive and carve my skis at fairly high speeds, even if I'm on a tech set up. The ZeroG 95s are good, but not great. They don't have great edge hold on ice and aren't a particularly "fun" ski. In this regard, the Backland 107s are actually more fun to carve on the groomers than the narrower ZeroGs.* I've been on Maestrale RSs since 2013, but I just ordered some F1 Lts to supplement them.**

So, here's what I have in mind:
*88-96mm width
*Decent hold on firm groomers
*Under 7 lbs. (I am willing to add weight/heft to the usual ultralight offerings to increase stability and edge hold)
*Reasonable tip rocker (helpful when skiing textured snow/suncups)
*177cm-185cm length
*Sidecut probably under 20m

I might end up picking up another pair of ZeroG 95s, which have served me fairly well despite my minor gripes. But I'm curious to see if anybody has found skis that reasonably satisfy the odd combination I seek--e.g., MTN 95s, Findr 94s, Backland 95s, Orb Freebirds, etc.?

*There are several spandex-clad ski-mo folks at my local hill. While I'm in awe at how fast they ascend, I'm also mortified by how most of them descend. To me it's pretty clear that most of them are just trying to get down efficiently. Maybe it's a skill thing, but it doesn't make me eager to invest in ultralight skimo gear.

**I assume I'll still be able to drive and carve in the new dork boots, though not as well as the Maestrale RSs. If not, I may not be using them too often. We'll see.

[thefrush]

My go-to spring ski-mountaineering ski is a 184 Dynafit Tour 96. I don't ski it in-bounds very often (or ever) but as luck would have it I did a little 12-hour endurance challenge at Beaver Creek yesterday and had the chance to drive them on some fresh cut corduroy and had a great time taking them edge-to-edge - the skis and the runs.

Got a little carried away with my hyphens there, but seems like they could fit the bill for ya. Currently on sale at SnowInn: https://www.snowinn.com/ski-store/dy...8NdA&gclsrc=ds

[I've seen black diamonds!]

Best carving ski I've been on in this category was the Fischer Hannibal 94's. Those haven't been made in a few years, but I bet the 96's are pretty similar. Fischer doesn't seem to know how to make skis that aren't excellent carvers.

[grinch]

I was thoulroughly impressed with my old praxis exp ripping groomers, even though they had dfit sl 2.0's and in my tlt6's. Often thought id like a non ul pair with an alpine binding for a low tide ski. It was great everywhere unless it was really deep

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[L82thegate]

Mythic 97? Or take a couple pounds off those with the old Vertical Eagles. Different name now but essentially the same ski. If I had to pick a good carver at moderate speeds and combine mountaineering virtues where weight is critical it might be this ski. Insanely light and not wide. Designed & built with high mountain objectives in mind.

[kid-kapow]

I was thoulroughly impressed with my old praxis exp ripping groomers, even though they had dfit sl 2.0's and in my tlt6's. Often thought id like a non ul pair with an alpine binding for a low tide ski. It was great everywhere unless it was really deep

Agreed, EXPs are really good skis. They have this weird ability to both be perfectly happy doing big arcs at high speeds, and also be able to whip around at slows speeds in steep terrain. Their soft shovels had me a bit worried, but they ski really well. Not sure if Keith offer them outside of customs anymore, which will be somewhat spendy.

I would also suggest Völkl BMT 90s. They ski much better than they ought to given their weight - or lack of. They are not feather light though, but strike an awesome compromise between touring and skiing fast downhill. I cannot say enough good things about them. It is one of the most intuitive skis I've ever been on and one of my favorite skis ever. I think they get a lot less praise and attention than they deserve. I prefer them over EXPs.

[PNWbrit]

Mythic 97? Or take a couple pounds off those with the old Vertical Eagles. Different name now but essentially the same ski. If I had to pick a good carver at moderate speeds and combine mountaineering virtues where weight is critical it might be this ski. Insanely light and not wide. Designed & built with high mountain objectives in mind.

This.

[bry]

I picked up a pair of 186 tx93s this season and they've fit the bill for fitness laps. The tx line might be worth checking out. But prob too UL for groomers.

[wasatchback]

Interesting as I think edge grip on hard snow is what a ZeroG95 does better than almost anything in its weight class. The original ones, which I assume is what you have, are torsionally stiffer than a Bonafide which has 2 sheets of metal.

I skin up the local resort in the AM on 178 ZeroG 85s with Alpinists. At 6’2” 220 I can stand on them as hard as I want and they won’t let go. Literally can’t overski that ski when just linking arcs. And the 95 is actually a bit better in my mind. Granted I have to use a slightly different stance than on a traditional ski to keep the tails engaged through the turn but they have zero lack of grip.

[AKbruin]

Thanks for all the recommendations so far. I'm tracking.

As for the ZeroGs, I agree that they should be good on firm snow. But I think they're inferior to my Backland 107s. This, however, could be because I've got a lot of days on the ZeroGs. But they've never been particularly fun skis.

[SupreChicken]

*There are several spandex-clad ski-mo folks at my local hill. While I'm in awe at how fast they ascend, I'm also mortified by how most of them descend.

Bwahahahahahahaha.

OMG this.

No idea what ski to recommend. Listen to others.

[I've seen black diamonds!]

Interesting as I think edge grip on hard snow is what a ZeroG95 does better than almost anything in its weight class. The original ones, which I assume is what you have, are torsionally stiffer than a Bonafide which has 2 sheets of metal.

I skin up the local resort in the AM on 178 ZeroG 85s with Alpinists. At 6’2” 220 I can stand on them as hard as I want and they won’t let go. Literally can’t overski that ski when just linking arcs. And the 95 is actually a bit better in my mind. Granted I have to use a slightly different stance than on a traditional ski to keep the tails engaged through the turn but they have zero lack of grip.

I'd say the Zero G's (I owned the original 85s and have skied the original 95s a couple times) have more grip and a higher speed limit that the Hannibals I owned before the 85s, but the Hannibals were more intuitive carvers for sure: more effortless turn initiation and more energy out of a turn. That said, in bad snow the Zero Gs were far superior skis. Hannibals were more fun on corn and powder and surprisingly good for groomer zooming. As a ski mountaineering ski, I'd take the Zero G's every time, but for resort fitness laps on groomers, the Fischers would be a great fit.

[wasatchback]

Thanks for all the recommendations so far. I'm tracking.

As for the ZeroGs, I agree that they should be good on firm snow. But I think they're inferior to my Backland 107s. This, however, could be because I've got a lot of days on the ZeroGs. But they've never been particularly fun skis.

You have one of the original pairs or new model that came out last year?

I would say new model is a bit more fun in that it’s actually a little bit softer and more balanced.
Still stiffer than most but the tips and tails are a bit more forgiving than they used to be.

[Dshack89]

I've found it is critical to detuned the tips and tails on my zero g 85s / 95s. It becomes a much more fun ski afterwards while still retaining fantastic edge hold. I believe one of the most significant changes for the new version is they come pre-detuned.

[galibier_numero_un]

I was thoulroughly impressed with my old praxis exp ripping groomers, even though they had dfit sl 2.0's and in my tlt6's. Often thought id like a non ul pair with an alpine binding for a low tide ski. It was great everywhere unless it was really deep

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I haven't put a lot of miles on your old EXPs, but yeah, they're really versatile.

It had been quite some time since I was on a ski that I could bend into a tight arc to carve a turn.

I can't speak to longer radii, as I tend to find a ski's happy spot which for me (with the EXP), is tighter arcs.

They're consistent with what you'd take these out for (narrow, Spring steeps).

They're also quite good in Spring slop, especially if you drive them from the front of your boot which controls the tip to keep it from deflecting.

... Thom

[gregL]

Having torsional rigidity/secure edgehold/confidence in steep and icy terrain isn't the same as carving a clean turn on hardpack (presumably at a higher rate of speed).

For the former, the original Zero G 85 and 95 are hard to beat; I've also had some Trab skis that were awesome on icy technical terrain. The reason none of them were great "carving on groomers" is they're too light and the attachment was some sort of light but totally non-elastic tech toe.

When I intend to carve groomers I usually break out something like a Brahma, Kendo, or a real GS race ski (plus a plug boot that doesn't weigh 1 kilo).

[AKbruin]

Good to hear that the newer ZeroGs might be more fun. I think mine are first gen--had them since 2016. What I'd actually like would be the ZeroG 95s with (a) an extra pound of damping wood/metal, (b) a tad more sidecut, and (c) a little more rocker in the tips.

GregL: It'd be funny if I put some tech bindings on some Fisher RC4s with the race plates still on.

I'm sure the Praxis EXPs are great, but they're not even on Praxis's website any more. Sadly, neither are the Yetis, which I always wanted to try.

Thanks again everyone.

[gregL]

Good to hear that the newer ZeroGs might be more fun. I think mine are first gen--had them since 2016.

More fun? I sold the new ones and kept the OG 85 and 95 (but love the ZG 105 for winter).

[altacoup]

I’ll give the same answer I always give when similar questions to this come up. Praxis Yeti! Might be a little heavier but that makes it ski so much better, the shape is awesome and the little bump in the side cut under foot really does help on steeps.


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[skis_the_trees]

Praxis Yeti. Bummer if it's not standard offering anymore and is now a custom. My 192s are around 1910 grams each if I recall, so in a shorter length they would meet your metrics. I skied mine as an every day ski in NZ for a season with frame bindings and they did great ripping groomers when there wasn't fresh snow. (They still don't carve like the RC4s I had in 2005, but the RC4s suck in pow!)

[Westcoaster]

More fun? I sold the new ones and kept the OG 85 and 95 (but love the ZG 105 for winter).

What fundamentally changed with the new 85s and 95s? I was under the impression the changes to both were largely superficial.

[gregL]

What fundamentally changed with the new 85s and 95s? I was under the impression the changes to both were largely superficial.

Softer both torsionally and longitudinally, lighter, more rocker at tip. Most people like them fine out of the box, most people detuned the first gen ones. Lots of complaints about the originals being less than user friendly . . .

[BFD]

that zero G 85 certainly has a lot of rocker

[BFD]

that zero G 85 certainly has a lot of rocker

[Dshack89]

I found my 85s de-cambered pretty significantly over time. Almost became fully rockered like my renegades. They seemed pretty sensitive to temps. Wierd.