Edward Abbey is fucking stoked right now.

[RootSkier]

https://www.chron.com/news/article/P...edium=referral

[MTT]

Cron. Was unusable to me. After 5 minutes of continuous popup adds. I gave up. My only question what replaces the plants power output?

[RootSkier]

Natural gas.

[MTT]

Seems like a good trade-off. My only issue with natgas is utilities/ environmentalists aversion to upgrading expanding the distribution infrastructure.
When that shit fails it's really bad

[toast2266]

Seems like a good trade-off. My only issue with natgas is utilities/ environmentalists aversion to upgrading expanding the distribution infrastructure.
When that shit fails it's really bad

Seems like that goes for pretty much any energy infrastructure.

Environmentalists want everyone driving electric cars. And they want those cars to be affordable. But when someone wants to open a new mine to extract nickel and the other metals needed to make a shitload of batteries, they'll fight it tooth and nail.

[tgapp]

Seems like that goes for pretty much any energy infrastructure.

Environmentalists want everyone driving electric cars. And they want those cars to be affordable. But when someone wants to open a new mine to extract nickel and the other metals needed to make a shitload of batteries, they'll fight it tooth and nail.

can't have your cake and eat it too, sorry boys

remember: if it ain't grown, it's mined. few, if any, exceptions to that, and a kneejerk reaction to all mining is unhepful.

otoh, mining companies have shown time and again to be bad faith actors, so it's difficult to trust their intentions anywhere

[abraham]

I thought that was one of those giant german coal digging machines for a second

[Dantheman]

remember: if it ain't grown, it's mined. few, if any, exceptions to that, and a kneejerk reaction to all mining is unhepful.

otoh, mining companies have shown time and again to be bad faith actors, so it's difficult to trust their intentions anywhere

Nailed it. The former is 110% true, and my company does a lot of work for mining companies and sadly the latter gets confirmed all too often. Easy answers do not exist here*.

* - Except for coal, that shit needs to die ASAP. If your town is entirely dependent on coal mining and you're an Nth generation coal miner I feel for you, I truly do. But, coal is the 21st century equivalent of city streets knee-deep with horse manure and rotting garbage.

[tgapp]

Nailed it. The former is 110% true, and my company does a lot of work for mining companies and sadly the latter gets confirmed all too often. Easy answers do not exist here*.

* - Except for coal, that shit needs to die ASAP. If your town is entirely dependent on coal mining and you're an Nth generation coal miner I feel for you, I truly do. But, coal is the 21st century equivalent of city streets knee-deep with horse manure and rotting garbage.

agreed on coal, that shit is a cancer (literally)

folks are usually blown away to discover how many precious metals are used in a smartphone. or a car. or literally any 21st century technology. y'all like mri machines and modern medicine? sorry folks, i got news for you, but you can't have that without puttin' holes in the ground.

once asteroid mining gets up to scale it'll be a different story entirely, but i reckon we're 25-50 years off from seeing that in earnest

[grabtindy]

Crazy, I just drove through Page for the first time a few weeks ago. Those stacks really did dominate an otherwise beautiful landscape. Not to mention the NOx, SOx and PMx.

[cdlv]

Good bye you pollution spewing eyesore!!

[claresdad]

It's a good step forward for better air quality in the west. And I agree, mining company executives simply cannot be trusted. Just look at Bob Murray (Murray Energy) who after fighting against rules to protect miners, applied for black lung benefits when he got sick.

[tgapp]

It's a good step forward for better air quality in the west. And I agree, mining company executives simply cannot be trusted. Just look at Bob Murray (Murray Energy) who after fighting against rules to protect miners, applied for black lung benefits when he got sick.

yeah what a fuckwad, that guy can burn in hell

i love john oliver's roasting of him though, classic

[Dantheman]

yeah what a fuckwad, that guy can burn in hell

i love john oliver's roasting of him though, classic

[highangle]

President-elect Joe Biden will nominate Rep. Deb Haaland to be secretary of the Interior. If confirmed, she will be the first Native American to serve in that position.

The Department of the Interior is home to the Bureau of Indian Affairs. Haaland, 59, D-N.M., is an enrolled citizen of the Pueblo of Laguna Native American tribe and serves on the House Natural Resources Committee. She was one of the first two Native American women elected to the United States Congress, the other being Rep. Sharice Davids, D-Kan.

Biden has vowed to appoint a diverse Cabinet, noting on several occasions that he wants his administration to look like the United States. Haaland's appointment is the latest example of that effort.

His Cabinet selections thus far have included several historic appointments, including Alejandro Mayorkas, a Cuban American, as the first Latino head of the Department of Homeland Security; Janet Yellen as the first woman to head the Treasury; and Pete Buttigieg for Transportation secretary, the first openly gay Cabinet secretary, if confirmed by the Senate.

...

In a statement posted to Twitter, Haaland acknowledged the historic nature of her pick, saying "a voice like mine has never been a Cabinet secretary or at the head of the Department of Interior."

"I am honored and ready to serve."

On Nov. 23, Haaland told NPR that if she was nominated for the Interior role, it “would mean a lot to Indian country.”
“It means a lot to a group of people who have been here since time immemorial to know that they're truly being represented,” she told NPR. “I think it would really change the way people see our federal government."

Under the Obama administration, several Native Americans served in top positions in the agency, such as assistant secretary of Indian Affairs; director of Indian Health Service; and as deputy secretary of the Interior. But the 171-year-old Cabinet-level department has never had a Native American at its helm.

On the campaign trail last year, Biden did not explicitly promise to make history by appointing a Native American to the position. But in a questionnaire he submitted as part of a Native American presidential forum in January, the former vice president pledged to diversify his Cabinet.

"As president, I will nominate and appoint people who look like the country they serve, including Native Americans," he wrote in the seven-page questionnaire provided to USA TODAY by Four Directions, an advocacy group that co-sponsored the forum. "That will be true across my Administration, but I also recognize the special importance of appointing Native Americans to play critical roles in upholding the government-to-government relationship."

As part of the Department of the Interior, the Bureau of Indian Affairs manages and administers 55 million acres of estates held in trust by the United States for Native American tribes.

...

Rep. Tom Cole, R-Okla., said in a statement that he applauds Biden's decision and said that Haaland is "a valued colleague and good friend." Cole is co-chair of the Congressional Native American Caucus, alongside Haaland.

"She is also a fierce and reliable advocate for Native Americans," Cole said. "We not only share a special bond through our tribal heritage and extensive knowledge of tribal history in the United States, but we have a shared understanding that tribal issues are non-partisan issues. This has enabled us to accomplish a great deal together. Once she is confirmed as Secretary of the Interior, I look forward to continuing to work with her to advance federal policies for the good of Indian Country.”

Haaland has been a strong advocate for voting rights protections and more resources for communities of color particularly during the pandemic. COVID-19 had had a disproportionate impact on communities of color, particularly Native Americans.

She called for a rapid deployment of resources and supplies to Indian Country to help stop the spread of the novel coronavirus. She said some communities there lack running water and face challenges with sanitation.

“Every single community in this country deserves access to the tools to fight this coronavirus,’’ Haaland told USA TODAY in an interview in April. “Communities of color are at a higher risk of being ignored and not getting what they need…We just have ignored or neglected certain communities of color along the way and it's come to this.”

Haaland has also pushed to expand broadband internet service to Native Americans, especially with virtual learning. “There's a lot of students around the entire country who are able to connect with their teachers and that's not so for a lot of rural communities, which includes Native communities,’’ she said


https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/...le/3778041001/

[BFD]

railroad and kayenta mine closed also. Not a lot of jobs in that area.

[splat]

Seems like a good trade-off. My only issue with natgas is utilities/ environmentalists aversion to upgrading expanding the distribution infrastructure.
When that shit fails it's really bad

Not true at all. After a tree limb fell on a wire in Ohio and blacked out the East Coast in 2003, NERC, the National Electric Reliability Corporation was established to ensure cascading grid failures like that didn't happen again. As the ERO, or Energy Reliability Organization, for all of North America, NERC sets compliance standards and inspects generation and transmission facilities to ensure they are as fail-safe as possible. The same applies to downstream distribution infrastructure as well. Natural gas produces steam to make electricity. The transmission and distribution of the energy requires no natural gas specific upgrading of distribution infrastructure other than keeping it compliant. The fines for non-compliance can be nothing short of ginormous. I know this first hand because selling NERC compliance was one of many utility company hats I have worn. It's surprising how many power plants have serious issues like main panels totally mislabeled and wired wrong. I also ran across a few skiers and maggots in the biz, including one guy building power plants who had previously overseen Black Diamonds ski building in China.

[TBS]

Natural gas.

I can sort of understand this with gas producers literally paying companies to take natgas right now.

But why not solar? There’s metric fucktons of land available out there to put solar farms. And solar requires more jobs per kWH than either coal or NG.

And it sure seems to me that small scale solar would be the ticket for the Navajo Nation. Give each household sufficient panels to power their homes. Could even put panels and inverters on trailers that folks can move between camps. Would sure be cheaper than trying to run power lines out there.

[jono]

But why not solar? ....solar requires more jobs per kWH than either coal or NG.

Sounds like you've got this covered.

[JimmyCarter]

On Nov. 23, Haaland told NPR that if she was nominated for the Interior role, it “would mean a lot to Indian country.”
“It means a lot to a group of people who have been here since time immemorial to know that they're truly being represented,” she told NPR. “I think it would really change the way people see our federal government."


https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/...le/3778041001/

Someone tell that racist that its "Native American country" and not Indian Country

[Dantheman]

I can sort of understand this with gas producers literally paying companies to take natgas right now.

But why not solar? There’s metric fucktons of land available out there to put solar farms. And solar requires more jobs per kWH than either coal or NG.

And it sure seems to me that small scale solar would be the ticket for the Navajo Nation. Give each household sufficient panels to power their homes. Could even put panels and inverters on trailers that folks can move between camps. Would sure be cheaper than trying to run power lines out there.

I'm guessing the purpose of that plant is mostly baseload for Phoenix. Pretty sure the Navajo Nation isn't using >2,000 MW.

[glademaster]

Do you think Abbey was pissed that several of the characters in The Overstory are blatant rip-offs of characters in The Monkey Wrench Gang?

[TBS]

I'm guessing the purpose of that plant is mostly baseload for Phoenix. Pretty sure the Navajo Nation isn't using >2,000 MW.

Agreed - so why not use solar for Phoenix area base load?

And on small localized scale on the Rez?

[splat]

I can sort of understand this with gas producers literally paying companies to take natgas right now.

But why not solar? There’s metric fucktons of land available out there to put solar farms. And solar requires more jobs per kWH than either coal or NG.

And it sure seems to me that small scale solar would be the ticket for the Navajo Nation. Give each household sufficient panels to power their homes. Could even put panels and inverters on trailers that folks can move between camps. Would sure be cheaper than trying to run power lines out there.

Pretty sure solar panel lifecycles exceed thirty years these days with paybacks at around ten years. Storage and building efficiency then become the only issues to overcome. Utilities dread off-grid power generation and usage. One day, when the worm turns, many utilities will be left mostly to manage the distribution of rooftop generation their former customers sell to them.

Daytime demand met by solar could impact climate change significantly. Followed by electric vehicles. Not every place gets an optimal amount of sun, but plenty do. The big solar plants in the Mohave are shipping juice out over transmission lines, using mirrors to make steam instead of coal. Not all solar involves mining rare earths to build panels. But a mix of the two powering the bulk of America's needs is what will happen when Big Oil stops buying opposition to building the infrastructure that dials back gas consumption.

[glademaster]

Pretty sure solar panel lifecycles exceed thirty years these days with paybacks at around ten years. Storage and building efficiency then become the only issues to overcome. Utilities dread off-grid power generation and usage. One day, when the worm turns, many utilities will be left mostly to manage the distribution of rooftop generation their former customers sell to them.

Daytime demand met by solar could impact climate change significantly. Followed by electric vehicles. Not every place gets an optimal amount of sun, but plenty do. The big solar plants in the Mohave are shipping juice out over transmission lines, using mirrors to make steam instead of coal. Not all solar involves mining rare earths to build panels. But a mix of the two powering the bulk of America's needs is what will happen when Big Oil stops buying opposition to building the infrastructure that dials back gas consumption.

The powers that be will outlaw home solar installations before this happens. Or do what we did here and mandate battery banks so that people with solar have to store the energy on site and can't pump it back into the fossil-fuel driven grid.