Old Fucks in the Waiting Line

[Mazderati]

FIL's 90+ year old mom fell. Poor cognitive test scoring. She spent a few days in a hospital. She spent a few weeks in a rehab facility. She's ready to spend the rest of her life in a long-term care facility. She does not have much but owns a (very) small home and has a little in the bank. Medicare does not cover long-term care and she has to sell her house and spend all her money for Medicaid to cover the $10k/month bill. Are there any legal means of transferring her assets to her son this late in the game without raising red flags?

You know most of these long-term care facilities give these old fucks' beds away if they go to the hospital? No guarantee the old fucks can even return to the same facility.

[MakersTeleMark]

FIL's 90+ year old mom fell. Poor cognitive test scoring. She spent a few days in a hospital. She spent a few weeks in a rehab facility. She's ready to spend the rest of her life in a long-term care facility. She does not have much but owns a (very) small home and has a little in the bank. Medicare does not cover long-term care and she has to sell her house and spend all her money for Medicaid to cover the $10k/month bill. Are there any legal means of transferring her assets to her son this late in the game without raising red flags?

You know most of these long-term care facilities give these old fucks' beds away if they go to the hospital? No guarantee the old fucks can even return to the same facility.

No, you have to spend it down.

[DeepHelmet]

There is a five year window (I think) to put all the assets in a trust. So, five years ago. Sorry man, it sucks the way we take care of the old ones.

[MakersTeleMark]

There is a five year window (I think) to put all the assets in a trust. So, five years ago. Sorry man, it sucks the way we take care of the old ones.

Yes, there is a look back provision.

Here is a helpful link: https://aptible.familyassets.com/nur...urces/medicaid

[Buster Highmen]

Does she have any kind of will/testament?
My experience was to have the conversation, get the sign over and manage their funds for 5+ years.
Lots of squeezebags want to suck out the $ and that can be tiring.

Whatever, but realistically, if you're going to defend her $ better than anyone else, do it.

[prsboogie]

They will take all the money or withhold medicaid if they see a sketchy transfer. Best thing to do is work out private pay boarding at the facility you (he) wants her at with the proceeds from the sale. One expense that should be completed before handing over the money is to finalized her burial arrangements and make sure to keep the receipts. Its a good way to use her money for her rather than giving it to a facility. Good part of private pay is facility are usually pretty happy to take cash rather than Medicaid even for a short period, they are also more likely to assist the families with the filing process if they know they are getting cash upfront.

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[MakersTeleMark]

Another thing to consider is doing a reverse mortgage and getting some higher level in home care if that would make her more comfortable or if it is medically possible.

[wooley12]

Sorry about your mom. Same story as my dad. We were able to get in "for the duration" with 2-3 hundred k in the bank and a 150k house. 10k left when he died after 3 years. Split it 5 ways.

Talk to some homes and ask them questions is my suggestion. Every state is different I think.

[Mazderati]

The required spend-down is not great news but the confirmation is something. Thanks for the link. Setting up burial arrangements with her funds is a good call. Not sure about will/testament but doubt it. Her stubbornness may have helped her live this long but it has also been an impediment. She was still very much, "No, thank you. I'll do it." up until she fell. I asked about the possibility of home care but it seems unlikely. Father in law (it is his mom) has an appointment with an attorney later this week. Note to self: get your end of life affairs in order.

[Ski220]

Have gone through this with my mom and an aunt in the past few years.

In my opinion the best recourse is private care in their own home.
They will recieve better, more personalized care then in an institution, is less expensive initially and will have a better life in familiar surroundings.
Spend down her assets this way. When it is time, later on you can transfer her to an appropriate facility for end of life.

You could transfer her assets and institutionalize but trying to gauge the life expectancy of a 90 year old is tough.

[AdironRider]

Sorry to hear.

It's times like these where jokes about making sure the last check bounces seem to hold some truth. Second the in home route/reverse mortgage until the money runs out then let Medicaid take over.

[papapoopski]

Sorry to hear about your situation. My wife works in assisted living and end of life care. I just picked her brain a bit about this.

It's a fucking travesty how the elderly are treated in the end. We also went through this with my grandmother. Talk to a lawyer that handles this shit. Better if there is a lawyer/accountant that work in the same office.

She will most likely get the best care from a private in home option, as others have mentioned. It's fucking insane how expensive the larger facilities are compared to the level of care a person gets. So many of these places tell the family what they want to hear then the old relative gets the shit end of the stick.

I would also say exhaust the funds for private in home care. There is a huge network of traveling aides and nurses that are dedicated to this stuff.

Best of luck.

[Core Shot]

Irrevocable trust.

Do it now for your old folks or yourself and hope that they live 5 more years.

Can still use their money for home care and niceness, but once there in LTC housing, it’s a great big sucking sound until it’s gone.

[Buster Highmen]

Have gone through this with my mom and an aunt in the past few years.

In my opinion the best recourse is private care in their own home..

She will most likely get the best care from a private in home option, as others have mentioned. It's fucking insane how expensive the larger facilities are compared to the level of care a person gets. So many of these places tell the family what they want to hear then the old relative gets the shit end of the stick.

I would also say exhaust the funds for private in home care. There is a huge network of traveling aides and nurses that are dedicated to this stuff.

Best of luck.

This is what I did.

I leveraged local federally funded social services to keep track of the local care I was paying for 3200 miles away in between flights to check up.
My take was that my mom was getting better care this way than if she was in some nursing home.

The nursing home would have been less work for me, but that wasn't the goal.

[neufox47]

My married in cousins mom and dad had this happen, but she spent 10+ years in the home and he spent 8+. Cousin bemoaned that the nursing home took all their money. In reality, they only had about $100k in assets so really the government paid to take care of them for 9 + years. Same cousin bemoans taxes and “socialism” like Medicaid, Medicare, and social security. One day I calculated for her that her parents cost the government more in nursing home costs than they paid in taxes their entire life. She still thinks of everyone else as “takers” who are on public assistance but thinks her parents were rugged self reliant individuals who took no charity...


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[Mazderati]

The situation in the OP is settled but I recently ran across information on ABLE accounts. These still take some planning but allow for a workaround to the $2k spend-down requirement up to $100k. Not something I recall seeing in previous searches. Maybe it helps someone else in a similar situation. [Edit: There is an age of onset requirement. See Ski220's post below.]

ABLE Accounts, which are tax-advantaged savings accounts for individuals with disabilities and their families, were created as a result of the passage of the Stephen Beck Jr. Achieving a Better Life Experience Act of 2014 or better known as the ABLE Act. The beneficiary of the account is the account owner, and income earned by the accounts will not be taxed. Contributions to the account, which can be made by any person (the account beneficiary, family, friends Special Needs Trust or Pooled Trust), must be made using post-taxed dollars and will not be tax deductible for purposes of federal taxes; however, some states may allow for state income tax deductions for contributions made to an ABLE account.

https://www.ablenrc.org/what-is-able...-able-acounts/

[Cono Este]

I don’t think anyone missed anything. My mom is in a private place and it’s quickly sucking the proceeds of what was once a nice pad in Maui. I know of people that bank rupt their parents and put them in a shitty state home but I sleep well at night knowing my mom and her cat are happy. Cross that bridge if we ever get there.

[Ski220]

This is why you did not run across the ABLE act in researching help for your FIL's mom.

"The ABLE Act limits eligibility to individuals with disabilities with an age of onset of disability before turning 26 years of age."

[boltonoutlaw]

Thanks for the bump, studying this now (Mom is mid-80's). Attended funeral for an Aunt on Monday, going to Panama today for a condolence trip to my neighbor (and second Mom) who lost her husband. All this reality crashing down is making me hyper-alert

[Mazderati]

This is why you did not run across the ABLE act in researching help for your FIL's mom.

"The ABLE Act limits eligibility to individuals with disabilities with an age of onset of disability before turning 26 years of age."

Thanks for clarifying. I edited my post.

[MontuckyFried]

...but once there in LTC housing, it’s a great big sucking sound until it’s gone.

YUP! My late grandmother ended up in one of those places. Her choice. She didn't want to stay with any of her children who offered to help take care of her. She always acted like she was ssssooooooo broke as long as I knew her. A total miser, and a total emotionally abusive cunt to my mom and her sisters. Never gave us grandkids anything for Christmas, bdays, nothing. Not even a phone call (didn't want to pay for long distance). Well, after she died, my mom and her sisters had to get things sorted out and ends up that she had like a million in the bank before she went to LTC. She ended up dying penniless. Didn't leave a freaking dime to my mom or her siblings. Those places make sure to suck those bank accounts dry until there's nothing left. It's absurd. Those places can be shady AF. I don't trust them. Interesting how these old folks homes can weasel their way deep into their victim's pockets so easily.

I've told my parents that they can do what they want, but we'll make sure they're always taken care of. Will gladly let them move in or build them a guest house or something. Just want them to be happy and not get robbed blind by these crooked organizations.

[MontuckyFried]

TNot sure about will/testament but doubt it. Her stubbornness may have helped her live this long but it has also been an impediment. She was still very much, "No, thank you. I'll do it." up until she fell.

Oh man. I feel your pain. This was my other grandmother to a T. Stubborn AF. Never took care of estate business and then it was too late. Died after falling and breaking a hip. After all the sibling fighting, thing were whittled down so much it's infuriating. All cuz she drug her feet locking things up in a trust and then her dumb kids couldn't work things out like civilized adults. She had like 30 years post-retirement (my grandfather's that is - not like she ever worked) to take care of business, so it wasn't for lack of time. It was because she wanted everything done HER way and not even her (very good) attorneys could tell her anything. Super controlling woman, much to her own detriment. That was so much of her life. Overthinking everything so much that nothing got done. Sucks I lost both my grandfathers long before them, because THEY would've made sure business was taken care of. At least they both took care of their ladies post-mortem, so they had enough to get 'em through to the end. Just sad seeing so much (that was ALL earned by my extraordinarily hard working grandfathers) squandered or going up in a poof of smoke by LTC facilities.

[MontuckyFried]

Sorry man, it sucks the way we take care of the old ones.

Truly does. WTF is wrong with our culture that we do things like this? SO much of the rest of the world has multi-generational living. Kids financially support the older folks, the grandparents help raise the grandchildren, and nobody is neglected, left to die alone in a facility just bleeding them dry. WE'RE the odd ones in how we do it, and it's a travesty. Really shouldn't be so difficult, but we bring this on ourselves I suppose.

[goldenboy]

Timely thread. Driving to Cleveland this week to clear out the MIL's home and sell it so the assisted living facility can take it all before medicaid takes over. At least she seems happy in the new place, lots more social interaction than when she was at home alone all day.

[boltonoutlaw]

Truly does. WTF is wrong with our culture that we do things like this? SO much of the rest of the world has multi-generational living. Kids financially support the older folks, the grandparents help raise the grandchildren, and nobody is neglected, left to die alone in a facility just bleeding them dry. WE'RE the odd ones in how we do it, and it's a travesty. Really shouldn't be so difficult, but we bring this on ourselves I suppose.

This is high on my list of reasons for leaving the USA and moving to Japan