To Vaccinate or Not---The Rat Flu Odyssey Continues

[sirbumpsalot]

https://twitter.com/libsoftiktok/sta...09139927146502

[dan_pdx]

What do you think would happen if Biden and other senior Democrats flipped their messaging and started saying "All freedom-loving Americans should definitely _not_ get vaccinated! It's unsafe and unproven! Definitely do not get the vaccine!" Would the idiocracy sniff out a plot to increase their chance of death by Covid and try to own the libs by getting vaxxed?

[Toadman]

A friend of mine who's a lobbyist was quoted recently in a magazine article: “You cannot hammer them into changing their minds. You cannot force them into changing their minds. You cannot embarrass them into changing their minds. You can only educate them into changing their minds.” And, he adds, “It takes a lot of coffee.”

Sadly, it's a case where the anti-vaxxers have to learn the hard way, which equals death or becoming hospitalized. A mild case of the COVID doesn't serve as a learning moment for the anti-vax crowd. Heck, there's a small subset of anti-vaxers who lose someone to COVID and think they died of something else. Because COVID is a hoax.

Until science finds a cure for stupid, stupid people going to do stupid things.

[Skidog]

These are the traditional age ranges used by the FDA to guide clinical trial design. The 12 year old cutoff is in part due to it being the average age of puberty for both boys and girls (obviously there's a range).

· Preterm newborn infants
· Term newborn infants (0 to 27 days)
· Infants and toddlers (28 days to 23 months)
· Children (2 to 11 years)
· Adolescents (12 to 16-18 years (dependent on region))

Much appreciated. The ages are trail (prior) based.. thats what I was looking for...Hoping the 2-11 comes sooner rather than later personally.

[PNWbrit]

Sadly, it's a case where the anti-vaxxers have to learn the hard way, which equals death or becoming hospitalized. A mild case of the COVID doesn't serve as a learning moment for the anti-vax crowd. Heck, there's a small subset of anti-vaxers who lose someone to COVID and think they died of something else. Because COVID is a hoax.

Until science finds a cure for stupid, stupid people going to do stupid things.

I think the tide is turning and increasingly non-vaxxed will be a difficult status to maintain. More and more employers requiring it, it's only a matter of time until insurance companies penalize it, businesses requiring it.

It won't get them all to change their mind but every arm added helps.

[frorider]

"The fundamental cause of the trouble is that in the modern world the stupid are cocksure while the intelligent are full of doubt"

Les Claypool
inventor of velcro

I thought Les plays bass & sings in Primus.

[::: :::]

Multnomah Co back to indoor masking indoors starting Friday
https://www.oregonlive.com/coronavir...ng-friday.html

[old goat]

In order to educate someone the information has to come from someone the subject is willing to accept as an authority, and a greater authority than those asserting the opposite. Therein lies the problem. Very few of us construct knowledge out of whole cloth. We accept that the earth is round because were told so by people we respected. Most people get their political, social, cultural and religious beliefs from their parents and other authority figures they encounter in their formative years, not from a sober-minded rational examination of facts. As adults we accept information we receive from our tribal leaders, not from people of the other tribe--no matter how respectful they are.


If I were of a conspiratorial frame of mine, which I am, I might think that the cynical leaders of the anti-vaxing covid deniers were hoping to provoke an authoritarian response from the government and corporate America--vaccine passports, mask mandates, renewed shutdowns with economic collapse--in the hopes of inciting their followers to rise up. Look how the right in CA has used Newsom's strong response to the pandemic to build a plausibly successful recall movement against a governor who was elected with 62% of the vote. (And the possible outcome if the recall succeeds is truly frightening--46 candidates running to fill out the term and whichever one gets the most votes, no matter how small the plurality, wins.)

[JimmyCarter]

We accept that the earth is round because were told so by people we respected.

Whoa whoa whoa, what’s this “we” shit?

[bennymac]

[::: :::]

the suggestible are getting the message from leadership

"Podcast king Joe Rogan says vaccine passports move US 'closer to dictatorship'"
https://thehill.com/changing-america...passports-move


[eta, buster, I lasted 5mins...]

[JimmyCarter]

But drinking age is a law.

What these people really need to convince them is a cobranded vaccine. Let Trump slap his name on the Pfizer vaccine and those fuckers would get more shots than Splat.

[bodywhomper]

he's kind of a model for the discussion as he is a bad faith mouthpiece that is filling heads with bullshit


Buster, i do appreciate your interest in keeping conversations civil -- it really is the high road & worthy of saying out loud every now & then as a reminder, as we all suffer from lapses

i've appreciated the civil discussion, but i generally ignore the trolling on this board.

Eventually, there is going to need to a be point of reconciliation.

in my local community, i have been most appreciative of some of the alternative community leaders who have broadly shared about getting vaccinated, or getting COVID (mild breakthrough when many non-vaxed peers were more severe), or shared their hesitancy but are still getting vaccinated, etc. there were also some covid survivors, who were previously loud outspoken deniers, got severely infected (one was on a vent), and then did their best to persuade their peers to believe and understand the disease more and then get vaxed.

[puma]

I thought this was funny.

[Core Shot]

Their names are Krista, Kayla, Kyla, and Kara. His wife's name is Karla. Krista (the antivax one) played in the Lingerie Football League. Kyla just opened up a store called KyKy's Kookies, but quickly changed the name after the possibly risky KKK alliteration was pointed out to them.

Can we get back to the thread drift? Vax is boring

I’d bang the mom long before the unfortunate fat daughter
She got dads jeans

[tuco]

I thought Les plays bass & sings in Primus.

Lennon Claypool Delirium.

[old goat]

Whoa whoa whoa, what’s this “we” shit?

Yeah, I wasn't talking to you.

[Skidog]

Maybe you can’t change their minds. The disinformation didn’t form in a vacuum. It grew out of frustration that the messaging from major news sources and forward thinking politicians didn’t align with their beliefs. Racists don’t want to be told that racism is wrong. Misogynists don’t want to be told that misogyny is wrong. People that profit from the destruction of the earth don’t want to be told that their way of life is causing harm. A lot of the progressive messaging is disrespectful by default because it inherently says that some people are doing it wrong. The us vs them infighting has grown out of that because it’s a great diversion that allows the people in power to get away with more. It makes it easy to push the extremes to the forefront so that we forget that “those people” are fellow humans, our friends and neighbors, struggling with the same shit that we are.

Excellent point..I agree the media is one of the biggest issues. "Media"

One of the people I thought would never post the "go get your vax for the good of the people" came out on Facebook just today. I was shocked and happy. Maybe all hope isn't lost.

Fyi, if it wasn't evident, I lean right, but wasn't a Trump voter. Sorry for poliass.

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[Skidog]

In medicine, 12 years is usually considered the age that separates children from adults physiologically. Yes there are outliers but in general it’s a good reference.


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Can I ask this? Has this age changed over the years? It seems girls reach puberty much earlier than in the past? Maybe that's just "rumor", but I remember barely knowing what a period was at 12. Yes we had sex education at about 7th/8th grade. That's right what my daughter is going in to, yet she's had her first period nearly a year. You're right though, she was 12 and a bit when she got it first.

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[Ted Striker]

I thought Les plays bass & sings in Primus.

That's Bertrand Russell. Easy to mix them up.

He also invented the solar powered sailboat. Quite a fellow, really.

[Ted Striker]

...increasingly non-vaxxed will be a difficult status to maintain. More and more employers requiring it, it's only a matter of time until insurance companies penalize it, businesses requiring it.

My take as well.

"Give me convenience, or give me death!"

[yeahman]

What I find hard to believe is that these anti-vaxxers have the gall to show up at the hospital and expect to be treated by the same healthcare workers they have been disbelieving and disparaging for the past year and a half. At least have the courage of your convictions and tough it out at home. It's just the flu after all.

[Nobody Famous]

What I find hard to believe is that these anti-vaxxers have the gall to show up at the hospital and expect to be treated by the same healthcare workers they have been disbelieving and disparaging for the past year and a half. At least have the courage of your convictions and tough it out at home. It's just the flu after all.

I read this from a small town physician. He asks any anti-vaxxer or anti-masker how community spirited they are. Will the anti-vaxxer/anti-masker be willing to volunteer for two 12-hour shifts in a covid ward at a local hospital, ... unvaxxed and with no mask. The MD says so far not one person has taken him up on the offer.

Wish I could remember where I came across this, it was a great read.

[MagnificentUnicorn]

What I find hard to believe is that these anti-vaxxers have the gall to show up at the hospital and expect to be treated by the same healthcare workers they have been disbelieving and disparaging for the past year and a half. At least have the courage of your convictions and tough it out at home. It's just the flu after all.

As a healthcare worker, this is the camp I’m in. We’re having to do surgery on a lot more COVID positive people and it taxes our resources, the extra work and time we have to put into these patients is untenable. They are all unvaccinated.


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[bennymac]

There's a real deep seated panic that sets in when oxygen levels drop, lungs are filling up with fluid, and their breathing rate increases. They forget all about those comments they made, those theories they believed, their confidence that they had done the research by reading curated headlines posted in echo chambers.

It gets even worse when they are told to facetime their family and tell them that they are about to go on a ventilator.

Like finding god in a foxhole