To Vaccinate or Not---The Rat Flu Odyssey Continues

[Deebased]

Jab 2 done. Still only 4 bars 4G LTE

Its only for 5G. Upgrade your phone

[old goat]

Approximately 50% of us, if tested, would show antibodies to the herpes viruses that cause cold sores/genital sores - meaning our immune systems, at some point in our lives, did a tango with a herpes virus inside our body. 50%.

Look at the person who posted above you. Now look at the person who posted after you.....do the math. Statistically one of you has had herpes virus inside your body. Maybe all three of you.

This does not mean that 50% of people have outbreaks of genital herpes - the story is a lot more complicated than that - and this is not the thread to explain it all.

But given the herpes virus prevalence in society it's not surprising that any vaccine or illness or medication that affects the immune system could also lead to new or repeat resurgence of latent herpes infection.

All the stuff I wrote above is talking about "herpes" as known in society (cold sores and genital sores) - medically herpes is a whole family of viruses (like corona viruses is a family)

Chickenpox is also caused by a herpes virus. Did you have chickenpox as a kid? You got herpes! (medically speaking - not in the common parlance). Younger people today are vaccinated against chickenpox. But if you weren't and you got it the old fashioned way this virus (a herpes virus!) likely lives inside you spinal cord today....I'm not making this up.

And when the time is right (when your immune system is tired or is busy doing something else) this chickenpox virus decides it has an opportunity to party and comes flying out of retirement to cause shingles. So getting covid could also lead to a shingles outbreak. So could getting a covid vaccine. If a patient or a reporter looked into it without a medical background you can see how they might see the story as "this person got the vaccine - then they had a herpes outbreak! This is gonna get some page views!"

Those kinds of headlines also give anti-vaxxers a raging boner as evidenced here.

Do you have a source for the claim that covid vaccine or any other vaccine could lead to a flare up of shingles, other than the Israeli report of 5 immunocompromised women with autoimmune disorders?

As for going out maskless post vax, keep an eye on Israel, Britain, and Chile, the other highly vaxxed nations. Israel was still requiring masks a few weeks ago, probably still. Also keep an eye on your local covid prevalence. If there's no covid, and you're vaxxed, it's pretty safe out there. If there's some cases and you only go unprotected once, that's likely also safe. If there's some cases and you go several times a week, there's some risk.

Those countries are also good to watch to see what level of vax plus social distancing controls the disease. E.g. Israel's at 60% vaxxed and has what the US calls severe restrictions and cases are falling by half every week.

As for a year or two from now... if vax rates are high enough (nobody knows the exact threshold), covid cases should fall off slowly. Cases could fall fast if we're lucky, but we'll probably relax restrictions fast enough to prevent cases from falling fast. With large numbers unvaxxed, there will continue to be local outbreaks, as with measles, whooping cough, etc. Assuming the schools require vax late this year, that will likely be the tipping point if we don't hit it sooner. Those graphs showing the case declines in old folks are very encouraging.

It's not a personal decision. If you're vaccinated, wear a mask when you around people who aren't or might not be, until told you don't need to by competent scientific experts (I wrote "authority" but that freaks people out).

One recommendation is the 2 out of 3 rule. Any two of these 3--mask, outdoors, distance--is adequate. This is from Linsey Marr.

[gravitylover]

They are actually asking everyone that comes in to put the word out that they have about 1 thousand extra doses for today. They're already out of the fridge so must be used today. No appointments necessary, they don't care where you're from just come get jabbed.

I hope my county isn't topping out at ~40% vaxed.

[KQ]

This joke gets even more hilarious every time I hear it.

Also had no idea so many of you mags had latent herpes. Although, this isn't surprising in hindsight.

Evidently both HSV-1 and HSV-2 are becoming less common and is mostly found in the 50+ population.

Just under half, 48 percent, of people aged 14 to 49 have herpes simplex 1, HSV-1, commonly known as the cold sore virus. By age 49, nearly 60 percent of people are infected, the NCHS, part of the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, found. In 2000, more than 59 percent of people over 14 had the virus.

About 12 percent of people aged 14 to 49 have HSV-2, known widely as genital herpes. Only about 7 percent of teenagers are infected, but more than 21 percent of people over 40 are, the survey found.

[schwerty]

Well, wife had full vax in Jan.
Whole family has rona this week.
Her symptoms same as the rest of us.

Not so sure this vax program gets us back to normal.

Sample size 1
Ymmv

Hope you and the fam heal up quick! I have a couple clients that got it after being fully vaxed. Both around 2 months post 2nd shot.

[jackstraw]

Well, wife had full vax in Jan.
Whole family has rona this week.
Her symptoms same as the rest of us.

Not so sure this vax program gets us back to normal.

Sample size 1
Ymmv

What flavor did she get in Jan?

These vaccines are certainly not foolproof, eh? Best we have though...

[MTT]

Do you have a source for the claim that covid vaccine or any other vaccine could lead to a flare up of shingles, other than the Israeli report of 5 immunocompromised women with autoimmune disorders?



It's not a personal decision. If you're vaccinated, wear a mask when you around people who aren't or might not be, until told you don't need to by competent scientific experts (I wrote "authority" but that freaks people out).

One recommendation is the 2 out of 3 rule. Any two of these 3--mask, outdoors, distance--is adequate. This is from Linsey Marr.

This is an interesting question. My doctor wants me to get a shingles vaccine. But they won't give you the vaccine until 18 days after your second covid-19 19 shot.
There is no accessable information I can find on the why of that rule.
There's obviously some data/ concern related to this. But I guess we the masse's don't need to read about it.

I think this is what pisses me off. My access to information being filtered.

[Bunion 2020]

It was my understanding that the point of vaccination was to reduce the spread and lessen the virulence of the actual disease. If everyone got da Covid as CS claims and no one got very sick it sounds like it is working

[Hopeless Sinner]

This is an interesting question. My doctor wants me to get a shingles vaccine. But they won't give you the vaccine until 18 days after your second covid-19 19 shot.
There is no accessable information I can find on the why of that rule.
There's obviously some data/ concern related to this. But I guess we the masse's don't need to read about it.

I think this is what pisses me off. My access to information being filtered.

Just had my 2nd shingles vax (shingrix) a few weeks after Pfizer #2. I felt a little worse for a little longer than after the Pfizers. Prob no real info/studies on the timing of the 2 vaxes so "out of an abundance of caution" they put an arbitrary waiting period in place.


https://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/hcp/vis...combinant.html

[Art Shirk]

It was my understanding that the point of vaccination was to reduce the spread and lessen the virulence of the actual disease. If everyone got da Covid as CS claims and no one got very sick it sounds like it is working

This is what I was thinking. Those of you who have acquaintances that got covid after the vax, where the symptoms less severe? It in no way confers total immunity, but I believe the severity is supposed to dissipate, freeing up our hospitals.

Getting first stick later today.

[Ted Striker]

Without an actual positive test, I'm calling bullshit on most covid stories.

[huckbucket]

This is what I was thinking. Those of you who have acquaintances that got covid after the vax, where the symptoms less severe? It in no way confers total immunity, but I believe the severity is supposed to dissipate, freeing up our hospitals.

Getting first stick later today.

CDC officially tracking roughly 6000 breakthrough cases where vaccinated individuals became positive outside of the 2-week post second shot window. CDC recognize that 6000 is likely inaccurate (low). Of those 6000, about 29% of those experienced no symptoms, while 7% were hospitalized and 74 people died. That's a 1% death rate although the breakthrough data was not delineated by age so that we can understand whether 1% is higher or lower than historical, non-vaccinated controls. Furthermore, breakthrough may represent cases of higher overall inoculum (initial exposure) which may therefore bias the outcome regardless of vaccination status.

https://www.npr.org/sections/health-...lly-protective

[PNWbrit]

This is an interesting question. My doctor wants me to get a shingles vaccine. But they won't give you the vaccine until 18 days after your second covid-19 19 shot.
There is no accessable information I can find on the why of that rule.
There's obviously some data/ concern related to this. But I guess we the masse's don't need to read about it.

I think this is what pisses me off. My access to information being filtered.

The good thing about having people actually qualified as MDs is that the general population don't have to become home schooled internet MDs themselves.

[GoldMember]

CDC officially tracking roughly 6000 breakthrough cases where vaccinated individuals became positive outside of the 2-week post second shot window. CDC recognize that 6000 is likely inaccurate (low). Of those 6000, about 29% of those experienced no symptoms, while 7% were hospitalized and 74 people died. That's a 1% death rate although the breakthrough data was not delineated by age so that we can understand whether 1% is higher or lower than historical, non-vaccinated controls. Furthermore, breakthrough may represent cases of higher overall inoculum (initial exposure) which may therefore bias the outcome regardless of vaccination status.

https://www.npr.org/sections/health-...lly-protective

My take-away from this is that 0.008% have been reported infections. I think that's a win and, over time, the number will reduce with more people getting vaccinated and squeeze the virus out through lack of finding a receptive host. While it likely is truly a higher percentage with many, many unreported cases (asymptomatic or very mild cases not tested), it still appears the vaccines are on track for doing what they're intended for.

[huckbucket]

My take-away from this is that 0.008% have been reported infections. I think that's a win and, over time, the number will reduce with more people getting vaccinated and squeeze the virus out through lack of finding a receptive host. While it likely is truly a higher percentage with many, many unreported cases (asymptomatic or very mild cases not tested), it still appears the vaccines are on track for doing what they're intended for.

Yeah, I think there's little doubt of that. Clinical trial data notwithstanding, the real world data from Israel using Pfizer is trending to a 90% reduction in infection rate comparing unvaccinated to vaccinated. Even if the vaccine didn't reduce mortality or infectivity (which it's believed it does) that's a huge win.

[TBS]

Just had my 2nd shingles vax (shingrix) a few weeks after Pfizer #2. I felt a little worse for a little longer than after the Pfizers. Prob no real info/studies on the timing of the 2 vaxes so "out of an abundance of caution" they put an arbitrary waiting period in place.


https://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/hcp/vis...combinant.html

Just met with my doc Monday. She wants to wait 3 months following my Covid vax (shot 2 was 3/31) to get the Shingles and Pneumo vaccines

[Kevo]

Just got Pfizer round 2 here in Teton Valley Idaho.

Seems like we are running out of people who want to be vaccinated here locally. There were way less people this time around.

This article may explain why- https://www.vanityfair.com/news/2021...-herd-immunity

[old_newguy]

Well, wife had full vax in Jan.
Whole family has rona this week.
Her symptoms same as the rest of us.

Not so sure this vax program gets us back to normal.

Sample size 1
Ymmv

Family has been tested?

[Mofro261]

https://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/covid-1...ugh-cases.html

• As of April 13, 2021, more than 75 million people in the United States had been fully vaccinated against COVID-19 since December 14, 2020.
• During the same time, CDC received 5,814 reports of vaccine breakthrough infections from 43 U.S. states and territories.
• Vaccine breakthrough infections were reported among people of all ages eligible for vaccination.
  
  • 2,622 (45%) of the reported infections were among people ≥60 years of age.
  
  
• 3,752 (65%) of the people experiencing a breakthrough infection were female.
• 1,695 (29%) of the vaccine breakthrough infections were reported as asymptomatic.
• 396 (7%) people with breakthrough infections were known to be hospitalized and 74 (1%) died.
  
  • Of the 396 hospitalized patients, 133 (34%) were reported as asymptomatic or hospitalized for a reason not related to COVID-19.
  • Of the 74 fatal cases, 9 (12%) were reported as asymptomatic or the patient died due to a cause not related to COVID-19.
  • Hospitalizations and deaths that are not a direct result of COVID-19 are still considered vaccine breakthrough cases if the person was fully vaccinated and subsequently tested positive for COVID-19.

[wooley12]

The wife of a friend convinced her 8 y o daughter that the kid was allergic to the grass on my lawn.

[Benny Profane]

Just got Pfizer round 2 here in Teton Valley Idaho.

Seems like we are running out of people who want to be vaccinated here locally. There were way less people this time around.

This article may explain why- https://www.vanityfair.com/news/2021...-herd-immunity

There's one man who could fix that.

You wonder if, a few years down the line, he'll be holding super spreader rally events. Darwin sniggers.

[Benny Profane]

https://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/covid-1...ugh-cases.html

• As of April 13, 2021, more than 75 million people in the United States had been fully vaccinated against COVID-19 since December 14, 2020.
• During the same time, CDC received 5,814 reports of vaccine breakthrough infections from 43 U.S. states and territories.
• Vaccine breakthrough infections were reported among people of all ages eligible for vaccination.
  
  • 2,622 (45%) of the reported infections were among people ≥60 years of age.
  
  
• 3,752 (65%) of the people experiencing a breakthrough infection were female.
• 1,695 (29%) of the vaccine breakthrough infections were reported as asymptomatic.
• 396 (7%) people with breakthrough infections were known to be hospitalized and 74 (1%) died.
  
  • Of the 396 hospitalized patients, 133 (34%) were reported as asymptomatic or hospitalized for a reason not related to COVID-19.
  • Of the 74 fatal cases, 9 (12%) were reported as asymptomatic or the patient died due to a cause not related to COVID-19.
  • Hospitalizations and deaths that are not a direct result of COVID-19 are still considered vaccine breakthrough cases if the person was fully vaccinated and subsequently tested positive for COVID-19.

I wish that somebody would say that, within a sample group of 75 million people, most pretty old, that you will always have deaths within a certain period. C'mon man.

[KQ]

CDC officially tracking roughly 6000 breakthrough cases where vaccinated individuals became positive outside of the 2-week post second shot window. CDC recognize that 6000 is likely inaccurate (low). Of those 6000, about 29% of those experienced no symptoms, while 7% were hospitalized and 74 people died. That's a 1% death rate although the breakthrough data was not delineated by age so that we can understand whether 1% is higher or lower than historical, non-vaccinated controls. Furthermore, breakthrough may represent cases of higher overall inoculum (initial exposure) which may therefore bias the outcome regardless of vaccination status.

https://www.npr.org/sections/health-...lly-protective

From this morning's news:

Only 2 'breakthrough' infections among hundreds of fully vaccinated people, new study finds

[gravitylover]

Yeah I was amazed at the lack of people getting stuck this morning. There were only 3 people in there (other than my wife and I) and there are 10 shot spots. There was also nobody else coming in, for the 15 minutes we were in there only 2 people came in. Unless there's a dramatic shift in thinking I'm pretty sure my county will stay under 50% vaxed. The one bright spot was a guy in a maga hat came in as we were leaving.

3 hours since and damn my arm is sore. This time it's not where the jab was which is weird.

[Brasso]

Got Pfizer round 2 yesterday morning. Felt a little off in the afternoon, some Advil made me feel better. Arm soreness increased going into the night, but I woke up this morning with no fever thankfully. I'm hoping that good luck lasts. Just a little flu-like body soreness and arm soreness (less than with the 1st shot) right now.