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  1. #801
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    There is evidence that being well rested vs sleep deprived has effects on your immune system (which makes sense - if you are sleep deprived you are more susceptible to infection due to temporary immune supression)

    But there is also evidence that being well rested can improve your body's response to vaccine

    Sleep enhances the human antibody response to hepatitis A vaccination

    https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/14508028/

    I'll defer to the smarter and very helpful immunology folks in here for their ideas on this. But there isn't any harm to being well rested in advance and just after you get your shots (and lay off the heavy drinking in celebration of getting the shot - at least for a couple days)

  2. #802
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    Quote Originally Posted by frorider View Post
    New guidelines: all states should get anyone over 65 vaxxed, and those under 65 with comorbidities
    In response to opening it up for us younger geezers, I immediately registered - Shirley I'll get my shot by tomorrow.

  3. #803
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    Quote Originally Posted by old goat View Post
    Meanwhile Sacramento is still trying to figure out how to give the vaccine and to whom first. They've had months to figure this out. More meeting planned. While I get the idea that the most vulnerable populations (ie POC) should be prioritized, wasting time trying to be sure everything is absolutely, totally, precisely, completely fair kills everybody, especially POC. And they're still hung up on trying to convince every last person to get the shots when there isn't nearly enough vaccine for all the people who don't need convincing, and won't be for a long time. (Maybe we need a great businessman to figure this out; I know one who'll be leaving his current position in 8 days who might be interested.)

    Seriously. This is a total fucking failure by Newsome and California. Bullshit like this is why people hate the government.

  4. #804
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    Quote Originally Posted by bennymac View Post
    There is evidence that being well rested vs sleep deprived has effects on your immune system (which makes sense - if you are sleep deprived you are more susceptible to infection due to temporary immune supression)

    But there is also evidence that being well rested can improve your body's response to vaccine

    Sleep enhances the human antibody response to hepatitis A vaccination

    https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/14508028/

    I'll defer to the smarter and very helpful immunology folks in here for their ideas on this. But there isn't any harm to being well rested in advance and just after you get your shots (and lay off the heavy drinking in celebration of getting the shot - at least for a couple days)
    Wow, new shit has come to light.

  5. #805
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    Quote Originally Posted by frorider View Post
    New guidelines: all states should get anyone over 65 vaxxed, and those under 65 with comorbidities
    CO said "nope, goal is 70% of 70+ first."

    My guess is we do educators second because relatively few vaccines can have a huge impact by safetying and ensuring continuous in person K-12 learning.

    After that we ought to go with the 65+ and comorbid<65, but there are a ton of essential worker groups advocating for their being next.
    Quote Originally Posted by blurred
    skiing is hiking all day so that you can ski on shitty gear for 5 minutes.

  6. #806
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    Quote Originally Posted by Summit View Post
    CO said "nope, goal is 70% of 70+ first."

    My guess is we do educators second because relatively few vaccines can have a huge impact by safetying and ensuring continuous in person K-12 learning.

    After that we ought to go with the 65+ and comorbid<65, but there are a ton of essential worker groups advocating for their being next.
    Are vaccines at this stage really going to ensure continuous in person learning? Aren't quarantines amongst kids just as a big of a factor as sick teachers?

    Our daycare has closed twice this year because staff has to take time off to watch kids who are under quarantine.

  7. #807
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    Quote Originally Posted by funkendrenchman View Post
    Are vaccines at this stage really going to ensure continuous in person learning? Aren't quarantines amongst kids just as a big of a factor as sick teachers?

    Our daycare has closed twice this year because staff has to take time off to watch kids who are under quarantine.
    Yeah, there's an equivalence there, but as AMS is currently out because of too many teachers quarantined, staff vaccinations has a big upside. I think our school goes remote if 6 or more staff (10%) are out with symptoms/quarantined. A short leash like that sucks and has a big effect on the rest of the community.

  8. #808
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    Quote Originally Posted by alpinevibes View Post
    Yeah, there's an equivalence there, but as AMS is currently out because of too many teachers quarantined, staff vaccinations has a big upside. I think our school goes remote if 6 or more staff (10%) are out with symptoms/quarantined. A short leash like that sucks and has a big effect on the rest of the community.
    Without knowing if vaccines prevent spread, we can't necessarily stop the practice of quarantining teachers. In my mind, the only thing vaccinating teachers prevents is teachers getting sick which on it's own I'm totally fine with as they are some of the most important members of the community,

  9. #809
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    Quote Originally Posted by neufox47 View Post
    Seriously. This is a total fucking failure by Newsome and California. Bullshit like this is why people hate the government.
    They're blaming the software. Nobody who has ever had to deal with the CA DMV would be surprised. But why do we need software to give vaccines. You need syringes, needles, and someone with hands to give the shots. The more complicated they make it the slower it goes. Line people up and give them the shots. Give them a card that says they're vaccinated. Let them wait 15 minutes to make sure they don't die. You don't even have to take their names. People are dying and they're trying to run this thing like it's registering your car.

    In Sacramento they're opening the State Fair as a mass vaccination site--for HCW's only for now. But why aren't they being done at work. Isn't that where the freezers are and people who know how to give shots? And they're supposed to make an appointment, which is ridiculous.

    Quote Originally Posted by Summit View Post
    CO said "nope, goal is 70% of 70+ first."

    My guess is we do educators second because relatively few vaccines can have a huge impact by safetying and ensuring continuous in person K-12 learning.

    After that we ought to go with the 65+ and comorbid<65, but there are a ton of essential worker groups advocating for their being next.
    Trying to do it by job is just another way to slow the process down.

  10. #810
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    Quote Originally Posted by funkendrenchman View Post
    Without knowing if vaccines prevent spread, we can't necessarily stop the practice of quarantining teachers. In my mind, the only thing vaccinating teachers prevents is teachers getting sick which on it's own I'm totally fine with as they are some of the most important members of the community,
    True, but since a quarantine is required for a positive test result, exposure and having two or more symptoms, full vaccination effectively removes two of those barriers to keep teachers in the classrooms and schools in-person. Additionally, our staff wears KN95's at all times and it would be up to the County to decide if a school-based exposure potential would still require quarantine, post-vaccination.

    FWIW, our school has done four cycles of full staff testing recently and has had no positives. One staff member tested positive in between because of exposure to a direct contact who was still doing their day-to-day activities, with symptoms, before their positive result came back. For their volume of testing, I think ASD also has had pretty low positives in their staff, though the December shitshow of personal responsibility in our county probably tipped that.

  11. #811
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    Wife gets #2 Pfizer vaccine today and I’m 3 weeks out from Moderna #1. She was fine after her first vaccine, but I had a headache and nausea the next day. Could have been the 3 pints of stout, but hard to say. It was not a well controlled study.

    I’m not following much of the bench science on these and am wondering if anyone has read anything about vaccine efficacy in relation to antipyretic use. There was a bit of stuff a few years back saying that some(I don’t recall which one/s) pediatric vaccines were a bit less effective if antipyretic were given after vaccination. Is there any science about this with the covid vaccinations?

  12. #812
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    Quote Originally Posted by old goat View Post
    Trying to do it by job is just another way to slow the process down.
    I disagree.

    The problem has NEVER been lack of demand from overly exclusive criteria.

    The problem is the logistics of setting up PODs, staffing them, supplying them, and making sure people know when/how to get there. If you solve that, your rate limiting step will be vaccine supply; you can set whatever criteria you want and still have to turn people away.
    Quote Originally Posted by blurred
    skiing is hiking all day so that you can ski on shitty gear for 5 minutes.

  13. #813
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    Second dose of Pfizer vaccine Monday. Nothing but a little tenderness yesterday, no other problem.


    Sent from my iPhone using TGR Forums

  14. #814
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    Wife had her second Pfizer on Monday and felt much better than after the first. Now we are both vaccinated for the Vid!!

    Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk
    Why don't you go practice fallin' down? I'll be there in a minute.

  15. #815
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    Quote Originally Posted by timackie View Post
    Wife gets #2 Pfizer vaccine today and I’m 3 weeks out from Moderna #1. She was fine after her first vaccine, but I had a headache and nausea the next day. Could have been the 3 pints of stout, but hard to say. It was not a well controlled study.

    I’m not following much of the bench science on these and am wondering if anyone has read anything about vaccine efficacy in relation to antipyretic use. There was a bit of stuff a few years back saying that some(I don’t recall which one/s) pediatric vaccines were a bit less effective if antipyretic were given after vaccination. Is there any science about this with the covid vaccinations?
    My understanding is that Tylenol or ibuprofen shouldn’t interfere with vaccine effectiveness. Those medications shouldn’t compromise your immune systems response. But I defer to the vaccine/immunology experts in here.

  16. #816
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    Quote Originally Posted by timackie View Post

    I’m not following much of the bench science on these and am wondering if anyone has read anything about vaccine efficacy in relation to antipyretic use. There was a bit of stuff a few years back saying that some(I don’t recall which one/s) pediatric vaccines were a bit less effective if antipyretic were given after vaccination. Is there any science about this with the covid vaccinations?
    I had to look it up. There was a modest decrease in antibody titer when anti-pyretics were given prophylactically in a couple studies, but all titers were still considered above a protective threshold, and titers still increased further upon boosting. There was NO significant difference when antipyretics were given 0-4 hrs after immunization.

    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5027726

    The timing of administration of antipyretic analgesics appears to be paramount. In all studies that reported a negative effect on antibody response, the medications were given prophylactically. Interestingly, this effect was not seen when acetaminophen was given only four hours after immunization.6 Additionally, all reported decreases in antibody response occurred only with novel antigen vaccination, with little to no impact observed following booster immunizations.
    take 2 and call me in the morning.
    Move upside and let the man go through...

  17. #817
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    Quote Originally Posted by bennymac View Post
    My understanding is that Tylenol or ibuprofen shouldn’t interfere with vaccine effectiveness. Those medications shouldn’t compromise your immune systems response. But I defer to the vaccine/immunology experts in here.
    Here is a meta-review (but not meta-analysis) of the evidence about these meds and vaccines https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5027726/

    Basically evidence is limited (particularly for adults), significance isn't clear, and if you wait at least 4 hours after (although the timeframe may be different with mRNA vaccines) then the blunting effect is reduced, and the blunting effect disappears with boosted vaccinations.

    I took tylenol. It made me feel normal and I wish I'd only waited 6 hours instead of 24.
    Quote Originally Posted by blurred
    skiing is hiking all day so that you can ski on shitty gear for 5 minutes.

  18. #818
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    Quote Originally Posted by Summit View Post
    I disagree.

    The problem has NEVER been lack of demand from overly exclusive criteria.

    The problem is the logistics of setting up PODs, staffing them, supplying them, and making sure people know when/how to get there. If you solve that, your rate limiting step will be vaccine supply; you can set whatever criteria you want and still have to turn people away.
    This, mostly. Although I would guess the situation in CA is different and I would agree with Goat's position that CA needs to reduce barrier to just get momentum building.

    The announcement from Azar to now priotirize 100M with underlying conditions was a desperate hail mary to save face as Trump devolves. The oneous is still on the states and counties to get the vaccinations out, despite their inability to meet their demand. CO has done a good job so far with their rollout, but Polis is right in staying the course and not jumping to the new recommendations.

    Hopefully Biden's team will have a better plan to guide the states with, instead of suddenly instilling false hope into 100M Americans who think they got the golden ticket sooner than expected (and sooner than possible)

  19. #819
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    I remember them advising against ACE inhibitors for treating the actual virus. Ibuprophen is one, Tylenol is not. So take Tylenol. I was chugging Z-quil when I had the virus.

  20. #820
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    Quote Originally Posted by Summit View Post
    I disagree.

    The problem has NEVER been lack of demand from overly exclusive criteria.

    The problem is the logistics of setting up PODs, staffing them, supplying them, and making sure people know when/how to get there. If you solve that, your rate limiting step will be vaccine supply; you can set whatever criteria you want and still have to turn people away.
    That's my point. If logistics are the rate limiting step, simplify the logistics. Mass vaccination sites mean fewer places the vaccine has to be transported to. If you don't prioritize by job you don't have to have people document their jobs, you don't have to direct different messages to different groups. If you don't prioritize by underlying conditions you don't have to identify those people. If you eliminate appointments and make it first come first serve you cut out the need for setting up and managing an appointment system. Yes, people will have to wait for hours and yes it will be unfair but fewer people will die.

    HCW's and nursing home patients are the low hanging fruit and we're not getting that done. It's only going to get harder.

    Over 150,000,000 people managed to vote and have their votes counted (and recounted and recounted again) in a period of a few weeks. Vaccinating people should be simpler, not more difficult.

  21. #821
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    Honestly I think a huge issue here is you have the potential distribution channels all overtaxed and there is not a financial carrot to those channels. I'm pretty familiar with the logistics involved and even a large scale very efficient delivery system is still looking at ~30 min of direct labor per dose (not counting overhead or backoffice) of something with $0-$15 of reimbursement if it even makes sense to invest in billing insurance where such business infrastructure exists and patients have insurance.

    A federal government offer to healthcare organizations of $20/dose straight up to deliver, and you'll see more enthusiasm to dedicate staff away from all the other things they are needing to get done, whether that is Walmart pharmacy or whether that is a hospital system or a local government agency.

    There is also the problem of trying to set up and staff vaccine delivery when the amount of supply is often not known until a day or two before vaccine is delivered. Hopefully things can go more steady state soon...
    Quote Originally Posted by blurred
    skiing is hiking all day so that you can ski on shitty gear for 5 minutes.

  22. #822
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    Quote Originally Posted by old goat View Post
    That's my point. If logistics are the rate limiting step, simplify the logistics. Mass vaccination sites mean fewer places the vaccine has to be transported to. If you don't prioritize by job you don't have to have people document their jobs, you don't have to direct different messages to different groups. If you don't prioritize by underlying conditions you don't have to identify those people. If you eliminate appointments and make it first come first serve you cut out the need for setting up and managing an appointment system. Yes, people will have to wait for hours and yes it will be unfair but fewer people will die.

    HCW's and nursing home patients are the low hanging fruit and we're not getting that done. It's only going to get harder.

    Over 150,000,000 people managed to vote and have their votes counted (and recounted and recounted again) in a period of a few weeks. Vaccinating people should be simpler, not more difficult.
    Agree. If a tiered system is needed, keep it simple like Age based only.

  23. #823
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    To Vaccinate or Not---The Rat Flu Odyssey Continues




    Got Modernized today. Cell signal improved immediately.

    Went to the store with strong urge to buy Zune mp3 player but the puzzled clerk didn’t think they had any in stock.

  24. #824
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    Mofro dropin’ knowledge. Thanks for the link.

  25. #825
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    California just made 65 and older eligible. yippee. Of course they're still struggling to do HCW's and no one is saying when 65's can actually get vaccinated.
    Here's a thought--when someone shows up for a shot worker takes a dated timed pic of their ID, stabs them, sits them down for 15 minutes, gives them a preprinted card with the date to return for shot 2. Later, when the dust has settled, the names and dates can be uploaded into a database if someone thinks it would be useful. The limiting factor would be room for all the people to wait, since the whole vaccination process should take no more than 5 minutes per victim.

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