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  1. #14826
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    Quote Originally Posted by The AD View Post
    I guess the desire to blame someone else is always strong.
    GYNA!!!!!
    Go that way really REALLY fast. If something gets in your way, TURN!

  2. #14827
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    Quote Originally Posted by old goat View Post
    In the Guardian article there is a pertinent quote--"Their analysis of medical data suggests that boys aged 12 to 15, with no underlying medical conditions, are four to six times more likely to be diagnosed with vaccine-related myocarditis than ending up in hospital with Covid over a four-month period."
    I haven't followed this completely (this time), but is the referenced study the same one where the "researchers" used data from VAERS and the CDC's definition of "likely" myocarditis (as in more likely than not...51% chance...not a clinical diagnosis) to come up with their numbers? Because the numbers listed sure sound familiar. That study was crap in more ways than one, but doubling the number of myocarditis cases is a pretty big one.

    If this is a different study, please disregard.

  3. #14828
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    To Vaccinate or Not---The Rat Flu Odyssey Continues

    Quote Originally Posted by PB View Post
    Now you've gone too far, Sir!
    I demand that you cease such prattle at once!
    second!!

    Ski off!!!

    Sent from my SPH-L710 using TGR Forums mobile app
    Last edited by bodywhomper; 10-03-2021 at 09:40 PM.

  4. #14829
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    Quote Originally Posted by old goat View Post
    I cannot disagree more strongly about parents' unquestioned rights to decide what's best for their children, given the number of kids who are abused and killed by their parents. More to the point, it has long been recognized by the courts and by society in general that parents' rights can be be overruled in the interest of the child--as an example Jehovah's Witness' children can be transfused against the parents' wishes and Christian Science children can be treated against parents' wishes. You do not own your children and they have rights independent of what you think is best for them. Society has a right too--the right to be protected from the results of bad parenting or isolated bad parental decisions.

    In nearly all situations I would agree with you--if your child is ill and there is a potentially dangerous treatment with an uncertain benefit then the parents should make the call. In the case of covid vaccines though the call will be made by virologists and epidemiologists and ultimately by politicians on the state level--see the California mandate for the vaccination of school children. Of course if you are lucky enough to live in a place like Florida you probably won't have to worry about it.

    Here's a Black Mirror version: imagine a terrible disease is ravaging kids. A new drug saves 10% of kids from certain death but kills 1%. Without the drug 10% of kids will die, but there's no way to know which ones will be in the 1% that die.

    Without a mandate parents are split 50/50: half can't accept the responsibility of giving their kids the drug in case they die. 5.5% of kids die and all of their parents spend the rest of their lives living with regret.

    With an absolute mandate, 1% of kids die and their parents live with that grief, only slightly blunted by society's appreciation for their sacrifice. But carry none of the blame.

    I don't think we have the stomach for it.

    It's pretty crazy that anyone would be less concerned about long term effects to kids from disease than from a well-tested, widely used vaccine that's only like 2 months younger. Gonna be a lot of asthmatic and neuro-impacted kids living with that choice for a real long time.

  5. #14830
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    If I had a young child and was considering the vaccine, I'd consult my doctor. Really. Just that.

  6. #14831
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    Quote Originally Posted by Carl_Mega View Post
    If I had a young child and was considering the vaccine, I'd consult my doctor. Really. Just that.
    Exactly!! This is what we all should do. I think the problem in our society is that a lot people don't have a regular family care doctor that they see and trust because our health care is fucked and walking clinics ate usually cheaper and faster and Google is free.

    So here we are.

  7. #14832
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    Quote Originally Posted by Carl_Mega View Post
    If I had a young child and was considering the vaccine, I'd consult my doctor. Really. Just that.
    You're so old school.

  8. #14833
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    Quote Originally Posted by jono View Post
    I haven't followed this completely (this time), but is the referenced study the same one where the "researchers" used data from VAERS and the CDC's definition of "likely" myocarditis (as in more likely than not...51% chance...not a clinical diagnosis) to come up with their numbers? Because the numbers listed sure sound familiar. That study was crap in more ways than one, but doubling the number of myocarditis cases is a pretty big one.

    If this is a different study, please disregard.

    yes, I believe it is it is that 'study' - a data collection that identified key words in documents.

    Find link in the Guardian article, or,

    https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1....30.21262866v1



    tj

  9. #14834
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    Quote Originally Posted by skiJ View Post
    yes, I believe it is it is that 'study' - a data collection that identified key words in documents.

    Find link in the Guardian article, or,

    https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1....30.21262866v1



    tj
    Ah, yes, the apples to turds comparison: hospitalization in one group versus ~2x the number of people who may have had a condition, inclusive of the entire range of severity in the other group. Couldn't just look at hospitalizations in both groups, right?

    I believe at least two of those authors have been at this lying with statistics game together for a while now.

  10. #14835
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    Went and visited a friend who’s 39 weeks pregnant today who’s right leaning. She was told weeks ago she could be induced this week. Well, she received a call two days ago that the hospital is over capacity and her earliest availability would be in 4 weeks. Which isn’t really realistic. She’s been hysterically (pregnant) emotional for 2 days now and in pain all week. She was cussing the Covidiots out today. We’re hoping nature takes place very soon and she slides in.

  11. #14836
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    Quote Originally Posted by old goat View Post
    If I were a 55 year old teacher I would not be willing to teach a roomful of unvaccinated elementary school kids once vaccine was approved for their age.
    I do it every day and have been throughout the entirety of the pandemic.....in school/in person. I got vaccinated last January....and I go to work, wear a mask, make sure the kids are wearing their masks, try to stay socially distant as best we can....and try to provide a somewhat normal school experience for an elementary student. At 3:00, I then go to HS and coach boy’s soccer......so I am totally exposed all day long. It is what it is.....it’s my job. But I’m only 50, so I might be ok.

  12. #14837
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    Quote Originally Posted by PNWbrit View Post
    I'm stunned by the number of people who can disentangle vaccine research but don't know what avuncular means.

    Another argument for getting kids in school.
    I know you're not talking about me because I can't disentangle vaccine research. see below

    Quote Originally Posted by jono View Post
    I haven't followed this completely (this time), but is the referenced study the same one where the "researchers" used data from VAERS and the CDC's definition of "likely" myocarditis (as in more likely than not...51% chance...not a clinical diagnosis) to come up with their numbers? Because the numbers listed sure sound familiar. That study was crap in more ways than one, but doubling the number of myocarditis cases is a pretty big one.

    If this is a different study, please disregard.
    I don't know. Looks like skij bailed me out though. see above

    Quote Originally Posted by BC. View Post
    I do it every day and have been throughout the entirety of the pandemic.....in school/in person. I got vaccinated last January....and I go to work, wear a mask, make sure the kids are wearing their masks, try to stay socially distant as best we can....and try to provide a somewhat normal school experience for an elementary student. At 3:00, I then go to HS and coach boy’s soccer......so I am totally exposed all day long. It is what it is.....it’s my job. But I’m only 50, so I might be ok.
    And I applaud you for it. Teachers deserve a lot more credit for what they've been doing during the pandemic than what they've been getting.
    It's one thing when masking and getting vaccinated yourself and social distancing is all you can do, but when there's a vaccine the kids can get and the parents refuse to do it that's subjecting teachers to a risk they don't have to take.

    Among the measures I think we'll see in the fairly near future in places that don't require the vax to go to school might be not allowing the unvaxed to do extracurriculars including sports and the same with non-school sports teams and other outside of school activities.

  13. #14838
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    https://yourlocalepidemiologist.subs...nts-and-the-uk

    In the UK, they ultimately went against the JCVI and recommended universal vaccination of 12-15 year olds.
    Remind me. We'll send him a red cap and a Speedo.

  14. #14839
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    Quote Originally Posted by old goat View Post
    Among the measures I think we'll see in the fairly near future in places that don't require the vax to go to school might be not allowing the unvaxed to do extracurriculars including sports and the same with non-school sports teams and other outside of school activities.
    That’s what we’ve seen here. First the city, then the county. Started with sports but is expected to be expanded to other extracurriculars as more things move inside. I know a couple families that have been hesitant to get their kids vaxxed and were basically waiting for something like this to push them to get it done.
    Remind me. We'll send him a red cap and a Speedo.

  15. #14840
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    I know eventually my kids are going to get vaxxed, that’s a given. I was just saying I am not going to right away until more than 2200 kids get it. My kids have a pediatrician, it is a 2 month wait to see the doctor. Before you immediately say that is why they should get vaxxed. My wife is a nurse at the hospital where the pediatrician is. The hospital is at capacity, no covid patients. There is a bunch of old people that have no where to go due to staffing shortages at nursing homes. Also a lot of people haven’t been able to see a doctor due to the shutdown and things have gone untreated and undiagnosed, leading to hospitalization.
    Still waiting for someone to post a study that shows the vaccine has more reward than risk for under 12. Also there is a database that shows vaccination percentage per school in Maine. Our school is a t100% vaxxed among staff. Everybody I know is vaxxed. The killing family and staff doesn’t really apply is everybody is already vaxxed, correct? Obviously I’m not basing my kids health decisions on a ski forum.
    On a side note how do you guys get anything done by constantly posting all day every day?

  16. #14841
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    There are no studies on under 12's yet, so you're waiting for the results of the trial that is presently ongoing. That's smart. It's easy to predict that should turn out well based on others, but it's a guess. We'll know more when it comes out.

    The results of black market vaccines in the TRG sample is only 50/50 for the endpoint of still posting long term without hospitalization. Though it's kind of a small sample.

  17. #14842
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    post #14685

    " I haven't followed this completely (this time), but is the referenced study the same one where the "researchers" used data from VAERS and the CDC's definition of "likely" myocarditis (as in more likely than not...51% chance...not a clinical diagnosis) to come up with their numbers? Because the numbers listed sure sound familiar. That study was crap in more ways than one, but doubling the number of myocarditis cases is a pretty big one. "


    upon further review,
    it is scary to me that a report like this is allowed to get into 'public domain' -
    a report of data points that might be 'adverse cardiac events' ( a report of "chest pain" in males aged 12 to 17 is collected, and reported as ' (probable / possible ) myocarditis' )

    'chest pain' can result from (vaccination) injection anxiety -

    There was no documentation of actual diagnosis, and no follow-up -

    there is no Medicine ( the art of diagnosis ) here; no real Science - Just the misuse of a computer tool to collect data and manufacture 'statistics' -

    I reviewed half a dozen articles reporting myocarditis and covid vaccination ;

    I found only One case of myocarditis reported in a male of unreported Age ( between 12 and 39 ( thirty-nine ) ) -
    ( there are Many potential causes of myocarditis in adults ( it may or may not be associated with a vaccination reaction ) )

    https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/34281357/


    a Canadian study appears to have sought to support the conclusion ;
    it has been withdrawn -

    https://www.news-medical.net/news/20...ian-study.aspx


    otherwise, I found no other clinical cases of myocarditis associated with vaccination reported.


    this is sad.

    Thanks for listening. tj
    Last edited by skiJ; 10-04-2021 at 08:10 AM.

  18. #14843
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    Quote Originally Posted by teletech View Post
    I know eventually my kids are going to get vaxxed, that’s a given. I was just saying I am not going to right away until more than 2200 kids get it. My kids have a pediatrician, it is a 2 month wait to see the doctor. Before you immediately say that is why they should get vaxxed. My wife is a nurse at the hospital where the pediatrician is. The hospital is at capacity, no covid patients. There is a bunch of old people that have no where to go due to staffing shortages at nursing homes. Also a lot of people haven’t been able to see a doctor due to the shutdown and things have gone untreated and undiagnosed, leading to hospitalization.
    Still waiting for someone to post a study that shows the vaccine has more reward than risk for under 12. Also there is a database that shows vaccination percentage per school in Maine. Our school is a t100% vaxxed among staff. Everybody I know is vaxxed. The killing family and staff doesn’t really apply is everybody is already vaxxed, correct? Obviously I’m not basing my kids health decisions on a ski forum.
    On a side note how do you guys get anything done by constantly posting all day every day?
    I also rolled the dice waiting to get vaxxed giving others lining up and waiting the opportunity go go first. I rationalized that decision based on the fact I had been infected already and only had minimal symptoms. As soon as it was as easy as booking an appointment after work and took only 15 minutes to get it done I was there! However, seeing the Delta breakthroughs.. Yes, anecdotal but high profile breakthrough cases.. How the hell do 9 NY Yankees get it at the same time when they were all vaccinated? On and on with all these breakthrough cases. I guess I can relate, while it's a shitshow competition to get your kids vaxxed i.e. you gotta miss two days work to stand in line all day maybe that's not the best decision. Might be more likely to get infected standing around in line all day than at school. Good to hear you plan to do it when it's not a huge challenge to do so. Not sure I'd worry about the side effects so much unless your children are really young, like 5 or 6. That's just me. You do you and just keep laying low until the whole family is fully vaccinated..
    Go that way really REALLY fast. If something gets in your way, TURN!

  19. #14844
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    Recall from the inception of the thread that my wife is a case manager at our local hospital here in Tennessee.

    She received the Phizer booster last Wednesday. Reactions were an inflammation of her lymph nodes, much more sever than the first time. One was baseball sized in her armpit. Three of her co-workers had to leave work around noon the next day due to reactions. She is fine this morning, but they bumped her mammogram out for 6 weeks.

    Most of our hospitalized COVID patients now are the unvaccinated. A few here and there have been, but that is the exception. Seeing frequent deaths in middle aged with co-morbidities. One of our local hospitals had to bring in the refrigerated semi trailer again.

    When referring patients to outpatient facilities, all have to be covid tested. She is regularly seeing non-symptomatic patients test positive.
    In order to properly convert this thread to a polyasshat thread to more fully enrage the liberal left frequenting here...... (insert latest democratic blunder of your choice).

  20. #14845
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    My wife and my FIL(94 yo retired farmer) just got 3rd Pfizer. She didn't suffer any issues. She didn't like me telling her that she got the placebo. I guess that joke has run it's course. He was a bit tired fir ~3 days. Since he sleeps a lot during the day anyway, I didn't notice at first. I'm scheduled for 3rd dose on 15th.

  21. #14846
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    Quote Originally Posted by SumJongGuy View Post
    I also rolled the dice waiting to get vaxxed giving others lining up and waiting the opportunity go go first. I rationalized that decision based on the fact I had been infected already and only had minimal symptoms. As soon as it was as easy as booking an appointment after work and took only 15 minutes to get it done I was there! However, seeing the Delta breakthroughs.. Yes, anecdotal but high profile breakthrough cases.. How the hell do 9 NY Yankees get it at the same time when they were all vaccinated? On and on with all these breakthrough cases. I guess I can relate, while it's a shitshow competition to get your kids vaxxed i.e. you gotta miss two days work to stand in line all day maybe that's not the best decision. Might be more likely to get infected standing around in line all day than at school. Good to hear you plan to do it when it's not a huge challenge to do so. Not sure I'd worry about the side effects so much unless your children are really young, like 5 or 6. That's just me. You do you and just keep laying low until the whole family is fully vaccinated..
    The Yankees news from a few months ago seems like it really made people confused...people are still wondering why they tested positive after being vaccinated. The answer is because the vaccine doesn't prevent all infection but for the vast majority protects from severe symptoms and hospitalization. The Yankee players were/are tested on the regular, regardless of if they have symptoms or not, so they're picking up a lot more cases. I believe in the case of the Yankee players they were symptom free.

    Depending on the outcome of the study of kids 5 to 11, and assuming those findings are that the vaccines are perfectly safe, I will not hesitate to get my kids vaccinated. See my previous post about the percent of population that makes up 5-11 yr/olds. I don't think there will be much of a wait to get kids vaccinated once approval is given, at least nothing like when they rolled it out for the general population. It's at most 5% of the total population trying to get vaccinated...and that's not discounting for people like teletech who will sit on the fence for a month or two waiting to see if any kids drop dead.
    Damn shame, throwing away a perfectly good white boy like that

  22. #14847
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    https://www.smithsonianmag.com/smart...eer-180978366/

    40% percent of the whitetail deer population sampled in 4 midwestern states have COVID antibodies present.

    Time to get these damn deer vaccinated!

  23. #14848
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    Sounds like outdoor transmission might be a real thing.

    Here ya go:

    https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/27786402/

  24. #14849
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    Quote Originally Posted by Asspen View Post
    https://www.smithsonianmag.com/smart...eer-180978366/

    40% percent of the whitetail deer population sampled in 4 midwestern states have COVID antibodies present.

    Time to get these damn deer vaccinated!
    It's difficult to get them to mask.

  25. #14850
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    Quote Originally Posted by jono View Post
    Sounds like outdoor transmission might be a real thing.

    Here ya go:

    https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/27786402/
    That is from 2017 and is talking about MERS from camels? What am I missing?

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