To Vaccinate or Not---The Rat Flu Odyssey Continues

[rod9301]

Ding ding ding! ^^This guy gets it.

FTR, I am NOT being anti-vaccine here. However, people like bennymac and others here completely fail to grasp the point I was trying to make. How am I wrong in that even if we achieve 100% immunization, it will do jack shit about preventing variants from OTHER countries? Some of which the vaccine seems to offer great resistance toward, however others perhaps not so much. The only answer I'm hearing about are the so-called "boosters," but what's to say THOSE won't lose efficacy over time either too? Perhaps they won't. Perhaps it will be fine. I'm erring on the side of get your vaccine. Protec yourself. However, it's ok to wonder what things are going to look like later on down the road. People here are SO adverse to open conversation, though.

There's no question that vaccination needs to be worldwide.

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[Not DJSapp]

So there are scientific studies surfacing that show a link between ivermectin and decreases in male fertility. I'm not going to actively promote its use, but I'm sure as hell not going to say they're wrong. As Mr. Darwin said 'The exit to the gene pool is right over there.'

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/21783912/

This logic gap is amazing. I don't trust an FDA approved vaccine specifically made for this, but I do trust barely-regulated medicine for horses that was made for a completely different thing because someone on the internet said so.

[old_newguy]

I find it amusing that some people are still wrapping their minds around the fact that COVID has changed the world permanently.

It’s changed.

Act accordingly.

[Ted Striker]

Why is the American right so inept at humor?

[rod9301]

This post sums up why people don’t want to have an open conversation with YOU. You have no idea what you’re talking about. Did you know that other countries have diseases that are endemic and that we don’t have to deal with because of high percentages of vaccinated people? As far as effectiveness against Covid and it’s variants the vaccines are very effective at protecting people from serious illness and death, like most vaccines. The faulty headlines about waning effectiveness have been explained here and links have been provided to explain why. I’m not sure why you posted “so called “boosters””. They are boosters and lots of vaccines require them and that too has been explained ad nauseum.

You choose not to read and/or lack the comprehension to understand the issues. Maybe you’re just trying to be edgy but you come across as simple and ignorant with these
so called “open” posts.


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I don't think that covid is the same as other diseases as far as vaccines go.

The risk is that the virus mutates in other unvaccinated countries to the point that the vaccines are no longer effective.

So i think it's really important tho vaccinate the whole world.

And of course the us, even though this doesn't seem possible, seeing that a lot of people are against vaccinations

And under 12 kids.

My daughter, 4th grade, not going to school for 5 days because one of her classmates tested positive.

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[skaredshtles]

How come?



you keep moving the goalposts, this time it's from "one case in the world means pandemic goes ape shit like a zombie movie" to this new "6 billion hosts". You're the one that's making weird statements and then moving the goalposts when you're shown to be wrong over and over and over. Stop it.

Yes, we, as in the people on planet Earth, need to get more people vaccinated to control this pandemic and maybe end it. this is one of those things that is a big fat "duh!" thing to to realize. And yes, people who are generally unhealthy seem to have issues with COVID more than others...again, duh! you're acting like people are disagreeing with these blatantly obvious statements, but they're not. again, stop it.

Pretty sure this is mental masturbation for Montucky.

[mcphee]

What part of the fact that 28% of the world is fully vaccinated (remarkable achievement actually), leaving about 6 BILLION more hosts, are you not comprehending?

answering questions with questions. obstinate jerkoff playbook 101.

I comprehend that the world population has a lot of unvaccinated people. that's not up for debate. you keep making an argument (willfully or unwittingly, it doesn't matter at this point) that amounts to "why get vaccinated if so many people are unvaccinated and the virus and it's variants are going to spread anyway?" Knowledgeable People On Here keep telling you why the vaccine will still work to stop the spread of the virus and yet you keep up the whole "I'm just asking questions" and "why am I being ostracized for not being in agreement with you Knowledgeable People On Here?" schtick. it's fucking old, tiring, mind numbingly stupid and quite cunty to say the least.

Have you been vaccinated?

[paulster2626]

What part of the fact that 28% of the world is fully vaccinated (remarkable achievement actually), leaving about 6 BILLION more hosts, are you not comprehending?
Yes. Lower odds. I get that. Doesn't negate the fact that another variant isn't going to come along to throw a wrench in all of our progress. Like the Moderna CEO is saying, like it or not, we're stuck with this thing. For the last freaking time, I AGREE that getting your shots is still one of the best ways to protect yourself! (funny how you all keep missing that component) Well, that and actually getting your freaking health under control, but I digress as that's a whole other can of worms that is somehow "controversial" these days too.

Sweet. I'll keep track for you since you dont' want to answer straight questions.

What exactly ARE your points, though? Maybe just clear it up instead of talking in circles.

Are vaccines effective?
YES
Are vaccines safe?
(pending)
Should everyone who is able to do so get vaccinated?
(pending)
Is COVID serious?
YES
Should people who are generally young and healthy take measures to protect themselves from COVID?
(pending)
Are masks an effective piece in the transmission mitigation puzzle?
(pending)

It's okay to change your mind as you learn new data. I've been wrong about a lot of shit in the past 18 months. It's all good man.

[Not DJSapp]

Why is the American right so inept at humor?

They don't get laid. Pent up people don't have a sense of humor. If they do get laid, it's boring missionary get it over with quick sex.

The risk is that the virus mutates in other unvaccinated countries to the point that the vaccines are no longer effective.

But this is the problem, and it's a perception problem. Vaccines or not, the virus will spread and mutate (and it is mutating in the US too, this isn't a foreign problem). This is the nature of viruses, each time a cell divides and it grows, it might mutate. Most mutations are bad and result in the death of the virus cell, a rare few are improvements. It just needs that lucky lottery ticket and with every infected person it gets another chance. The virus doesn't care where it happens so don't act like it can't come from the US. We had what, 3 main mutations prior to vaccines in the US? No vaccine can be future proof on something that spreads this fast. The vaccine is hugely effective at keeping you out of the hospital, even against the variants so far. That's the real point of the vaccines. Don't get dead. Maybe the vaccine gets tuned up over time and we can eliminate it within a decade.

And frankly, once the gov't stops paying for covid ER treatment, the $6/month pfizer monthly booster program joke is a FUCKING BARGAIN. Hell, it's a bargain compared to paying the inflated price of everything over the last year. But Montucky doesn't get that. Paying big pharma for a shot to end this = bad in his world.

[paulster2626]

They don't get laid. Pent up people don't have a sense of humor. If they do get laid, it's boring missionary get it over with quick sex.



But this is the problem, and it's a perception problem. Vaccines or not, the virus will spread and mutate (and it is mutating in the US too, this isn't a foreign problem). This is the nature of viruses, each time a cell divides and it grows, it might mutate. Most mutations are bad and result in the death of the virus cell, a rare few are improvements. It just needs that lucky lottery ticket and with every infected person it gets another chance. The virus doesn't care where it happens so don't act like it can't come from the US. We had what, 3 main mutations prior to vaccines in the US? No vaccine can be future proof on something that spreads this fast. The vaccine is hugely effective at keeping you out of the hospital, even against the variants so far. That's the real point of the vaccines. Don't get dead. Maybe the vaccine gets tuned up over time and we can eliminate it within a decade.

And frankly, once the gov't stops paying for covid ER treatment, the $6/month pfizer monthly booster program joke is a FUCKING BARGAIN. Hell, it's a bargain compared to paying the inflated price of everything over the last year. But Montucky doesn't get that. Paying big pharma for a shot to end this = bad in his world.

There's a thought that because delta is just sooooo contagious, there's not really anything that may be able to compete with it. Delta might be the 'one.'

[mcski]

I AGREE that getting your shots is still one of the best ways to protect yourself.

Why do you keep qualifying vaccinations as “one of the best ways?” Why isn’t it the best way, period? Sure, other measures can be taken as well, but now that vaccinations are available there really isn’t a comparison as to what is the single best way to protect yourself so why do you keep leaving that door open like a mealy mouthed bitch? Are vaccinations the single best way to protect yourself or not?

[mcphee]

Maybe this a point that has already been made in this thread, if so it bears repeating. All this bellyaching about personal choice and freedoms from antivaxxers, vax hesitant folks, and mask refusers is only going to bring about an actual real life heavy handed response from the federal government that will be a real shitshow for everyone. Just keep that in mind while you're crying about having to take your medicine and experience the slightest inconvenience right now. buncha fucking babies.

[The AD]

Why is the American right so inept at humor?

I believe this is what is known as a "rhetorical question."

[frorider]

Austin, I don’t think anyone here disagrees with you that comorbidities increase risk of ending up in ICU after getting covid. But that doesn’t change the fact that the vaccine is the single most effective tool (other than some hypothetical 100% shutdown with all of us living in a separate box eating MREs forever).

By all means, carry on the work of Michelle Obama and encourage people to have a healthy diet and get some exercise.

[mcphee]

By all means, carry on the work of Michelle Obama and encourage people to have a healthy diet and get some exercise.

Austin right now

[MontuckyFried]

Why do you keep qualifying vaccinations as “one of the best ways?” Why isn’t it the best way, period? Sure, other measures can be taken as well, but now that vaccinations are available there really isn’t a comparison as to what is the single best way to protect yourself so why do you keep leaving that door open like a mealy mouthed bitch? Are vaccinations the single best way to protect yourself or not?

Because it IS "one" of the best ways. I put being in optimal health at #1. This is not even in dispute, so no. To answer your question, vaccinations are NOT the single best way to protect yourself.

Don't believe me? Then ask yourself which of these two scenarios would you rather be under?:
(A) Morbidly obese and vaccinated
(B) Physically fit, health food nut, peak shape and unvaccinated

That alone should say what #1 and #2 priorities are, HOWEVER (and I know all you idiots are going to completely miss this point as you read the above without reading this part too), Option C is being both healthy AND vax'd. Option C does not negate the fact that THE BEST way to shift the odds in your favor are to live a healthy lifestyle. Full stop.

Here's an analogy that might resonate here. Thinking of those old Subaru commercials. Touting their AWD system for winter driving, they used to say that accident AVOIDANCE is even more important than crash safety. Think of the vaccine as being in a tank of a car. Good crumple zones, airbags, and what not. Think of being healthy as having AWD and proper snow tires. "OH CRAP! A MOOSE!" [slows quickly and maneuvers safely around]. Oh, that moose was still there. Didn't magically disappear, but you had the ability to safely manage the situation. Now, enter Volvo. Where you have both kickass winter capabilities AND great crash protection in case there's just no avoiding the situation (like some idiot sliding through a red light on an icy street, ie your unvaxx'd, drunk buddy comes over and sneezes on you!) Being healthy AND vaccinated is like being in the Volvo. That's how I take it.

[Ted Striker]

Why do you keep qualifying vaccinations as “one of the best ways?” Why isn’t it the best way, period? Sure, other measures can be taken as well, but now that vaccinations are available there really isn’t a comparison as to what is the single best way to protect yourself so why do you keep leaving that door open like a mealy mouthed bitch? Are vaccinations the single best way to protect yourself or not?

I'll take it one step further: it's the only way.

This county is too populous and mobile for any other measures to be more than piecemeal.

[SumJongGuy]

There's a thought that because delta is just sooooo contagious, there's not really anything that may be able to compete with it. Delta might be the 'one.'

But Mu seems to be immune to current vaccines and previous infection antibodies. Too soon to tell how contagious it is or isn't.

[mcphee]

Because it IS "one" of the best ways. I put being in optimal health at #1. This is not even in dispute, so no. To answer your question, vaccinations are NOT the single best way to protect yourself.

Don't believe me? Then ask yourself which of these two scenarios would you rather be under?:
(A) Morbidly obese and vaccinated
(B) Physically fit, health food nut, peak shape and unvaccinated

That alone should say what #1 and #2 priorities are, HOWEVER (and I know all you idiots are going to completely miss this point as you read the above without reading this part too), Option C is being both healthy AND vax'd. Option C does not negate the fact that THE BEST way to shift the odds in your favor are to live a healthy lifestyle. Full stop.

Here's an analogy that might resonate here. Thinking of those old Subaru commercials. Touting their AWD system for winter driving, they used to say that accident AVOIDANCE is even more important than crash safety. Think of the vaccine as being in a tank of a car. Good crumple zones, airbags, and what not. Think of being healthy as having AWD and proper snow tires. "OH CRAP! A MOOSE!" [slows quickly and maneuvers safely around]. Oh, that moose was still there. Didn't magically disappear, but you had the ability to safely manage the situation. Now, enter Volvo. Where you have both kickass winter capabilities AND great crash protection in case there's just no avoiding the situation (like some idiot sliding through a red light on an icy street, ie your unvaxx'd, drunk buddy comes over and sneezes on you!) Being healthy AND vaccinated is like being in the Volvo. That's how I take it.

facepalm.

THIS VIRUS DOES NOT GIVE A SHIT ABOUT YOUR LIFESTYLE.

anyone can get it. it can fuck you up if you're in shape or a lazy sack of flesh. why take your chances? seriously, why are you like this?

go get your shots

[old_newguy]

Can someone just go find the posts between the group and Montucky from 3 months ago and just link it so we can have a conversation that is actually useful?

[Not DJSapp]

There's a thought that because delta is just sooooo contagious, there's not really anything that may be able to compete with it. Delta might be the 'one.'

9x.x% of vaccinated folks who are infected with Delta don't land in the hospital. Unvaxxed folks who get delta are the ones landing in the ER. This goes back to the main point of the vaccine is: don't get dead. Don't overwhelm our hospitals. Yes, the future is uncertain. Yes, the vaccines will most likely need to be tweaked against future variants. In the meantime, don't get dead, don't overload our hospitals. Todays vaccines do this right now. We'll solve tomorrow's problems tomorrow.

[MultiVerse]

(A) Morbidly obese and vaccinated
(B) Physically fit, health food nut, peak shape and unvaccinated

The unvaccinated person is at higher of severe disease and death. A simple rule of thumb for Covid vaccine risk reduction is subtract 30 years from a persons age after full vaccination. So a 70yr old vaccinated person has a similar risk profile as a 40yr old unvaccinated person. Whereas being overweight with diabetes adds 20 years to an individuals mortality risk. Therefore the age-equivalent risk reduction from vaccination (30 years) is greater than the age-equivalent increased risk from being overweight with diabetes (20 years).

[Ted Striker]

...ask yourself which of these two scenarios would you rather be under?:
(A) Morbidly obese and vaccinated
(B) Physically fit, health food nut, peak shape and unvaccinated

False dichotomy.

You can either get married or be alone for the rest of your life.

[The AD]

Because it IS "one" of the best ways. I put being in optimal health at #1. This is not even in dispute, so no. To answer your question, vaccinations are NOT the single best way to protect yourself.

But they are unquestionably the best way to protect the population from a public health perspective, and in a pandemic that trumps protecting yourself.

[skaredshtles]

The unvaccinated person is at higher of severe disease and death. A simple rule of thumb for Covid vaccine risk reduction is subtract 30 years from a persons age after full vaccination. So a 70yr old vaccinated person has a similar risk profile as a 40yr old vaccinated person. Whereas being overweight with diabetes adds 20 years to an individuals mortality risk.

Oh... good luck convincing Montucky of this one... even *with* the data.