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  1. #15501
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    I really find the claim that 'health insurance' is the 'most powerful predictor' of covid vaccination status completely unsatisfying in a NYT article that states 42% - 49% of the Black population of NYC remains unvaccinated ;

    I do not consider NYC to either be "rural" nor have a 'lack of (reliable) news outlets' .

    a lack of health insurance may be 'the most powerful predictor' , but I do not accept it as a cause-and-effect relationship --

    nor given the history of the anti-vaccination movement do I blame the antivaccination position on 'Trumpism' , though it certainly is a contributing factor ;


    it's sad -
    I believe a great underlying factor is a broad, underlying distrust of Our Government ( perhaps governments - worldwide ) ;

    and
    when America ranks 45th in participation in an effort to defeat a deadly worldwide disease, ,,, it is impossible for me to understand.

    'lack of health insurance' may be the most conclusive 'predictor' of covid vaccination, but for a vaccination that was ultimately available upon request, without health insurance ( at least in the plains of the midwest ), I do not believe this predictor is a matter of cause and effect.

    ( However, If in NYC, people who sought vaccination were turned away for lack of health insurance, that loops me back to this being a matter of distrust of Government, which I am convicted is True. )


    respectfully. skiJ

    the NYT article is not accessible to me (behind a paywall ) ; I will look for it ( at the library )

  2. #15502
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    Quote Originally Posted by MultiVerse View Post
    The safest plan is to ignore the advice of internet strangers and do what the manufacturer/FDA recommends. That said, there are two main opposing things to consider. The first is the more time between doses, waiting a month or more according to research, the better the immune response.

    The second consideration, which goes against the first, is the first dose or prime dose provides significantly less protection than full prime+boost vaccination. A breakthrough infection is much more likely to occur in a partially or recently vaccinated person than it is for a fully vaccinated person several weeks after a second dose, regardless of dose interval.
    Multi- makes a good and valid point - ignore 'internet strangers' and follow manufacturers and FDA guidelines.

    that said, my recent experience is a person has to be their own advocate for their own Health and one's own health care.

    in looking for the References I found two weeks ago, I found some new information - I will insert those links here :

    https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019...cond-shot.html

    https://www.bing.com/news/search?q=C...se&FORM=NWRFSH

    https://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/covid-1...in-summary.pdf

    additionally, I have been Uneasy with the discussion about 'breakthrough infections' -
    by CDC's definition, a "breakthrough infection" is in a fully-vaccinated individual, more than fourteen days After completion of the vaccination protocol -
    ( for Pfizer and Moderna, this is two injections. ( for J&J, this would be two weeks after a single injection. ))

    https://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/covid-1...ugh-cases.html

    my reading is CDC recognizes an interval of up to six weeks as part of an effective vaccination series ( protocol ).
    I don't know what to think about a four-month interval as mentioned up-thread yesterday ;
    it would seem to me, by manufacturer's guidelines, one would want to have two doses administered within 'three weeks to six weeks' .


    more References to follow here vvv


    my intention, in replying to a post by ( I believe ) jono, was to say, If you are concerned about '(minor) side effects of vaccination' , there are reports that say side effects are reportedly fewer, and not as severe in individuals that had a longer interval between doses.

    https://cdn.pfizer.com/pfizercom/202...ol_Nov2020.pdf


    (please) consider this post a work-in-progress...

    Thank you. tj

  3. #15503
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    Quote Originally Posted by skiJ View Post
    I really find the claim that 'health insurance' is the 'most powerful predictor' of covid vaccination status completely unsatisfying in a NYT article that states 42% - 49% of the Black population of NYC remains unvaccinated ;
    I do not consider NYC to either be "rural" nor have a 'lack of (reliable) news outlets' .

    a lack of health insurance may be 'the most powerful predictor' , but I do not accept it as a cause-and-effect relationship --

    nor given the history of the anti-vaccination movement do I blame the antivaccination position on 'Trumpism' , though it certainly is a contributing factor ;


    it's sad -
    I believe a great underlying factor is a broad, underlying distrust of Our Government ( perhaps governments - worldwide ) ;

    and
    when America ranks 45th in participation in an effort to defeat a deadly worldwide disease, ,,, it is impossible for me to understand.

    'lack of health insurance' may be the most conclusive 'predictor' of covid vaccination, but for a vaccination that was ultimately available upon request, without health insurance ( at least in the plains of the midwest ), I do not believe this predictor is a matter of cause and effect.

    ( However, If in NYC, people who sought vaccination were turned away for lack of health insurance, that loops me back to this being a matter of distrust of Government, which I am convicted is True. )


    respectfully. skiJ
    When I practiced at Kaiser in Sacramento I routinely had Medical (CA's version of Medicaid) patients show up late because their usual 1 hour ride on 2 buses to go the 5 miles or so from their house to the med center turned into a 2 hour ride when a bus failed to show. Or people who missed their appts because the friend who was supposed to take them had a car that wouldn't start. Being poor in a city is a lot like living in a small town where most of the businesses, including the only drugstore, have closed. Do not underestimate how physically difficult it is for poor and rural people to do things most of us here take for granted.

    It's not a question of whether you need health insurance to pay for the shot--you don't--but that not having health insurance means not having a relationship with the health care "system--getting what health care you receive in the ER where everyone is treated like shit, not having a relationship with a personal doctor or NP who you trust for health care advice.

    There is more than one America--and if you never encounter an America different than yours you may not understand the people in it and what their lives are like. Why is the US 45th in covid vaccination? Because a good part of America is a 3rd world country. Poverty and lack of health care access is not the only factor--far from it. I am not discounting distrust of the government--but an awful lot of vaccinated people don't trust the government but still got their shots.

  4. #15504
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    This is the study the NYTimes cites for the stance that lack of healthcare is the biggest factor in predicting who is unvaccinated:

    https://www.kff.org/coronavirus-covi...eptember-2021/

  5. #15505
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    Who would've thought nations that have socialized public healthcare with measurable positive outcomes at the first world level (without the very real threat of major financial hardship post hoc) and a collective, rather than an individualistic ethos, would generally accept the fact that prevention is the only way out of a pandemic?

    And why on earth wouldn't people trust a hyper-partisan government that's been historically guilty of disinformation and systematic racism; lavishing great privilege upon on the wealthy, and utter indifference toward the unwashed? -- scratch that. Disdain.

    Add that what passes for education leaves a wide swath of the population ill-equipped to parse fact from fiction in the vast partisan bullshitosphere of commercial and social media. ("social" who are they kidding? It's all monetized)

    Assessing the structural integrity of the deck chairs on the Titanic might fill editorial adspace, but accomplishes little else.
    Last edited by Ted Striker; 10-17-2021 at 03:44 PM.

  6. #15506
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    Quote Originally Posted by old goat View Post
    When I practiced at Kaiser in Sacramento I routinely had Medical (CA's version of Medicaid) patients show up late because their usual 1 hour ride on 2 buses to go the 5 miles or so from their house to the med center turned into a 2 hour ride when a bus failed to show. Or people who missed their appts because the friend who was supposed to take them had a car that wouldn't start. Being poor in a city is a lot like living in a small town where most of the businesses, including the only drugstore, have closed. Do not underestimate how physically difficult it is for poor and rural people to do things most of us here take for granted.

    It's not a question of whether you need health insurance to pay for the shot--you don't--but that not having health insurance means not having a relationship with the health care "system--getting what health care you receive in the ER where everyone is treated like shit, not having a relationship with a personal doctor or NP who you trust for health care advice.

    There is more than one America--and if you never encounter an America different than yours you may not understand the people in it and what their lives are like. Why is the US 45th in covid vaccination? Because a good part of America is a 3rd world country. Poverty and lack of health care access is not the only factor--far from it. I am not discounting distrust of the government--but an awful lot of vaccinated people don't trust the government but still got their shots.
    interesting goat, that you choose the word "trust" to describe the lack of a relationship with people who do not have active medical care and the unvaccinated ;

    That is pretty-much my point.


    patients being late for an appointment that is five miles away because of buses or friend's cars. . .

    yes, there is more than one America, and except for Puerto Rico, I do not consider it to be "third world" , though I have seen and experienced 'third world' conditions in America ( hence, my citation of a mistrust of Government. which I see every day. )

    I am not sure what your point is except to tell me, I am wrong.

    to me, this is a misguided conclusion -
    I do not doubt that of the information gathered, 'lack of health insurance' appears to be 'the most ... predictor' of vaccination status ;
    I do not believe it is a cause-and-effect relationship.

    the comparison between urban poverty and rural living is False -
    while there may be similarities - perhaps due to circumstances - there is no similarity when Help is thirty miles and an hour away - best case.

    "third world conditions" are not the same as being in a 'third world' Country.


    with due respect. tj

    postscript -

    your statement, goat,

    "There is more than one America--and if you never encounter an America different than yours you may not understand the people in it and what their lives are like. "

    I believe merits,,, criticism.
    You don't know me.

    your phrase, "There is more than one America - ... " sounds good. it is Not-good. it is a root of a Problem ;
    ( "We" ) are called to be one country, goat - -

    That you further state,
    "Why is the US 45th in covid vaccination? Because a good part of America is a 3rd world country. "

    is B.s. --

    you present my position as though it is the Only outcome of the cause ; I n-e-v-e-r said anything like that.

    and yes, you are discounting distrust of Government.

  7. #15507
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    Quote Originally Posted by altasnob View Post
    This is the study the NYTimes cites for the stance that lack of healthcare is the biggest factor in predicting who is unvaccinated:

    https://www.kff.org/coronavirus-covi...eptember-2021/
    Are you saying that Facebook and Parlour memes (AKA "muh own research") don't count as healthcare?
    Go that way really REALLY fast. If something gets in your way, TURN!

  8. #15508
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    A private school in Miami, Florida, is requiring students who get vaccinated to quarantine at home for 30 days after each dose.

    "Because of the potential impact on other students and our school community, vaccinated students will need to stay at home for 30 days post-vaccination for each dose and booster they receive and may return to school after 30 days as long as the student is healthy and symptom-free," a letter sent out to parents of students at the Centner Academy says, according to local news outlet WSVN.

    The letter also urges parents to "hold off" on getting their children vaccinated until the summer "when there will be time for the potential transmission or shedding onto others to decrease."

    School officials told WSVN that the 30-day quarantine mandate exists because they believe there is a risk that vaccinated students would infect unvaccinated students.
    FFS.

  9. #15509
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    Now that we're getting to the phase where children are becoming eligible I'm getting the vibe that the refusal to utilize it round after round after round now putting your children at risk is kinda like the Pharaoh not listening to Moses with sign after sign after sign proving there was something to that mojo..

    Only it's well proven science, vaccines instead of religious lambs blood protecting our children from the angel of death..

    Either way it's foolish hubris that will cause the death of folk's kids

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    Go that way really REALLY fast. If something gets in your way, TURN!

  10. #15510
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    Quote Originally Posted by frorider View Post
    Centner Academy
    FFS.
    Looking at their "about us" they were already an anti-vax alt school pre covid.

  11. #15511
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    Quote Originally Posted by skiJ View Post
    interesting goat, that you choose the word "trust" to describe the lack of a relationship with people who do not have active medical care and the unvaccinated ;

    That is pretty-much my point.


    patients being late for an appointment that is five miles away because of buses or friend's cars. . .

    yes, there is more than one America, and except for Puerto Rico, I do not consider it to be "third world" , though I have seen and experienced 'third world' conditions in America ( hence, my citation of a mistrust of Government. which I see every day. )

    I am not sure what your point is except to tell me, I am wrong.

    to me, this is a misguided conclusion -
    I do not doubt that of the information gathered, 'lack of health insurance' appears to be 'the most ... predictor' of vaccination status ;
    I do not believe it is a cause-and-effect relationship.

    the comparison between urban poverty and rural living is False -
    while there may be similarities - perhaps due to circumstances - there is no similarity when Help is thirty miles and an hour away - best case.

    "third world conditions" are not the same as being in a 'third world' Country.


    with due respect. tj

    postscript -

    your statement, goat,

    "There is more than one America--and if you never encounter an America different than yours you may not understand the people in it and what their lives are like. "

    I believe merits,,, criticism.
    You don't know me.

    your phrase, "There is more than one America - ... " sounds good. it is Not-good. it is a root of a Problem ;
    ( "We" ) are called to be one country, goat - -

    That you further state,
    "Why is the US 45th in covid vaccination? Because a good part of America is a 3rd world country. "

    is B.s. --

    you present my position as though it is the Only outcome of the cause ; I n-e-v-e-r said anything like that.

    and yes, you are discounting distrust of Government.
    Have you ever been poor?
    "You're young and you got your health, what do you want with a job?"

  12. #15512
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    Quote Originally Posted by altasnob View Post
    US ranks 45th in the world for vaccination at the moment, Canada is 12. So despite your experience in rural BC, looking at the big picture, this corroborates the finding that the most powerful predictor of who remained unvaccinated is lack of access to health care.
    \
    At least in Canada no you are wrong,

    In a parallel univers to the narth we have universal HC which is available to anyone

    a vax is easily available to anyone who will accept it for free

    we got interent/ newspaers/ radio but not banjo music

    so the people who are not vaxed are aware but have chosen not to get vaxed

    so some Canadians are as dumb as a lot of Americans

    if you wana think of it that way ?
    Lee Lau - xxx-er is the laziest Asian canuck I know

  13. #15513
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    Quote Originally Posted by mcphee View Post
    Vibes man, similiar situation over here but with a 7 week old. Fully vaxxed since April. Wife woke up from a nap last night feeling feverish and achey. I went and grabbed some rapid tests and she tested positive, me negative. She got a PCR test today from Walgreens and it was positive.

    She woke up today feeling better. Fever was down to 99ish from 101.8 last night. She’s now running a 101.7 fever and body aches getting worse. On edge and pretty worried over here.
    Wife hasn’t had a fever since Monday. Lingering symptoms up until yesterday. She feels good today. PCR at Walgreens test is still positive though. When’s it safe for her to hold our baby? She’s wary of still being able to pass it on to the little one and me.

  14. #15514
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    Quote Originally Posted by XXX-er View Post
    \
    At least in Canada no you are wrong,

    In a parallel univers to the narth we have universal HC which is available to anyone

    a vax is easily available to anyone who will accept it for free

    we got interent/ newspaers/ radio but not banjo music

    so the people who are not vaxed are aware but have chosen not to get vaxed

    so some Canadians are as dumb as a lot of Americans

    if you wana think of it that way ?


    Death banjo is an entire genre in Canada...





  15. #15515
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    Quote Originally Posted by XXX-er View Post
    \
    At least in Canada no you are wrong,

    In a parallel univers to the narth we have universal HC which is available to anyone

    a vax is easily available to anyone who will accept it for free

    we got interent/ newspaers/ radio but not banjo music

    so the people who are not vaxed are aware but have chosen not to get vaxed

    so some Canadians are as dumb as a lot of Americans

    if you wana think of it that way ?
    these people have free HC, free will and they know what is happening

    so all your assertion does is give a bunch of people carte blanche to be dumb fucks
    Lee Lau - xxx-er is the laziest Asian canuck I know

  16. #15516
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    You're arguing with yourself?

  17. #15517
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  18. #15518
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    I feel bad for these poor kids. Their parents were ‘perfect example’ gullible morons.

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...five-kids.html
    Forum Cross Pollinator

  19. #15519
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    Name:  KVN9-5zWlTRT5NEedG7DWUyXE4p2fCqmQXrBOxsiH-g.jpeg
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  20. #15520
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    Forum Cross Pollinator

  21. #15521
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    Scheduled to get a booster this week. Heading to MX in a few weeks and figure it couldn't hurt.

  22. #15522
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    Quote Originally Posted by rideit View Post
    I'm not buying the poll responses or options for reason they opt out of getting vaccinated. "stick it to the lib tards" needs to be a valid response option because that's the truth for most of these fascists..
    Go that way really REALLY fast. If something gets in your way, TURN!

  23. #15523
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    https://www.nytimes.com/2021/10/15/o...accinated.html

    I hope this link will allow access to the nyt column by Zeynep Tufekci - an 'opinion columnist '
    (( I'm sorry - at the library, this link^^^ allowed access to the nyt column; by wifi, it appears to again be paywall protected ))

    https://www.kff.org/coronavirus-covi...eptember-2021/

    briefly, I reviewed the KFF polling cited above and came to very different conclusions. the KFF polling defined vaccination status by four parameters : "partisanship", education level, age, and 'health insurance' status. in the chart showing vaccination status, twenty-six groups were listed; the last of these were 'uninsured under age 65' ; I saw no other grouping defined by 'health insurance' status.

    there were several groups that were identified as opposed to being vaccinated. two of the top three were identified as : 1. Republicans at 23%, and 2. "White Evangelical Christians" at 20%, and 4. uninsured under age 65 at 18%.
    there was no mention in the text that accompanied the polling discussing 'uninsured' as, ,,, even a significant parameter; perhaps that conclusion is supported by the Covid States Project, also identified as a source for the column.

    covidstates.org


    the KFF polling data went on to present more than twenty charts presenting their 'data' ; in each case, the respondents were identified by political affiliation.

    I do not find the KFF poll supports Zeynep Tufekci's claim about 'the most powerful predictor', ,,, but she's the published columnist.


    I hope you have a good week.

    respectfully. tj
    Last edited by skiJ; 10-18-2021 at 02:54 PM.

  24. #15524
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    This chart from that KFF study seems to support what Zeynep Tufekci concluded.

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    Also, Zeynep Tufekci is a highly respected science writer. She has regular pieces in both the NYTimes and the Atlantic, as well as columns in Wired and Scientific American.

    She authored what I thought was the most interesting article of the entire pandemic:

    This Overlooked Variable Is the Key to the Pandemic; It’s not R.

    https://www.theatlantic.com/health/a...ndemic/616548/

  25. #15525
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    Quote Originally Posted by altasnob View Post
    This chart from that KFF study seems to support what Zeynep Tufekci concluded.

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    Also, Zeynep Tufekci is a highly respected science writer. She has regular pieces in both the NYTimes and the Atlantic, as well as columns in Wired and Scientific American.

    She authored what I thought was the most interesting article of the entire pandemic:

    This Overlooked Variable Is the Key to the Pandemic; It’s not R.

    https://www.theatlantic.com/health/a...ndemic/616548/
    It's a mix of people genuinely afraid or uncertain about long term adverse effects and a much bigger segment of people who refuse to do anything that folks who kicked Trump out of office are asking for any reason..
    Go that way really REALLY fast. If something gets in your way, TURN!

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