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  1. #5276
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    Fully vaxed and if my kids were old enough, so would they. But I have several anti-vax friends and I don't think shouting at them how stupid and selfish they are does anything to change their mind.

    The world has a long history of substances that scientist and the government once deemed safe and then changed their mind (lead paint, asbestos). Recently a study came out that chemical in tires (6PPD) is most responsible for killing the salmon and the whales in the Puget Sound (and is probably very harmful to humans) and yet when you go buy a tire tomorrow, it will still have that chemical in it. The micro-plastics we are all consuming could make humans sterile in the next 100 years. Can you really blame people in this fucked up polluted world we have created for ourselves of being distrustful of science and the government?

  2. #5277
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    We all get to stop with the COVID precautions and wearing masks in Oregon when we hit 70% having received their first shot.

    What the people ranting about vaccinated people being mandated to wear masks is that a significant portion of the population have made it plain that they are perfectly happy to walk unmasked into a grocery store without a vaccination. So we all have to play by the black and white rule of “wear a mask in the store no ifs and a or buts” because they act like my toddler.

    The CDC has issued very easy to follow guidance on masking.

    I follow the CDC guidance outside, which means I now go for runs without a mask.

  3. #5278
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    Indian guy I went to graduate school with just died from covid. Lived in Michigan and caught it before he could get vaccinated. He was young, probably around 30 and was in shape into crossfit and such. Had a bit of asthma though so it took him down hard. Get fucking vaccinated.

  4. #5279
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    Quote Originally Posted by simple View Post
    In your mind there are two sides. It perpetuates the culture war. Lots of us who can discuss it and not chose a side. It's called the "don't be a dick" model. Politicians can't do that but regular people can. Be a normal person at some point and ignore the culture war.
    Montucky also seems to have a legit reading comprehension problem. Your post followed by his COVID theater rant is a great example.

  5. #5280
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    Quote Originally Posted by MontuckyFried View Post
    I see your analogy and that's certainly true in one direction, but it's also true in the other direction, as in it's like the other person in the car accosting someone for unbuckling their seat belt after the car's come to a stop. They're ready to get out of the car and go on about their day but the scared passenger doesn't want either to take off their seatbelts yet in case the car accidentally starts moving again.

    There's certainly a divide these days about that. One side is yelling at the other for still wearing their masks post-vaccination because it feels unnecessary. The opposite side is yelling at the other for NOT wearing their masks post-vaccination because it makes them feel scared.
    Only T**** could have brainwashed enough sheeple like you to make a virus political and wearing a mask a talking point

    Your attempt to rewrite KQ's analogy makes you look like a low IQ bratty 4 year old

    First jab of Pfizer yesterday, the wife and I had sore arms and necks last night. First thing this morning the shoulder was locked tight until some movement and NSAID's helped

    I would like some type of mask mandate every fucking fall/winter. I haven't been sick since October 2019, masks help people stay healthy, humans are filthy selfish assholes

  6. #5281
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    Quote Originally Posted by MontuckyFried View Post
    The opposite side is yelling at the other for NOT wearing their masks post-vaccination because it makes them feel scared.
    So, if in a firefight, if one soldier refuses to raise his weapon, the other soldiers get pissed because they're scared?

    Really?

    Personally, it's not fear that moves in me, it's being aghast that simple actions that protect us all are being so selfishly, willfully and repugnantly omitted.
    Merde De Glace On the Freak When Ski
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  7. #5282
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    Quote Originally Posted by altasnob View Post
    The world has a long history of substances that scientist and the government once deemed safe and then changed their mind (lead paint, asbestos).
    “Science” knew lead was toxic since almost before their was science and lead paint was known to be toxic to children by the early 1900s but there was resistance to change because lead makes good paints - nice coverage, drying, lasts.

  8. #5283
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    To Vaccinate or Not---The Rat Flu Odyssey Continues

    We had another confirmed case on the job. Sent that specific crew home immediately; ie “close contact”.

    There is new guidance from WA DOH for returning to work after close contact. If you have been vaccinated and don’t show symptoms, you can go back to work immediately. If not vaccinated, you need to quarantine for 10days.

    Prior to vaccines being available to the construction industry you used to be able get back to work quicker than the 10d quarantine if you had 2 negative tests at least 72hrs after exposure. They seem to have removed that pathway. I am not sure if this is on purpose (to promote vaccines) or an accident.

    I sent 8 ironworkers home the other day. 4 returned the next day (had previously been vaccinated). 1 sick. 3 MIA (assuming no vax...)

    This new policy is kinda bittersweet. This backhanded promotion of vaccines has a positive impact to public health obviously... but I still need shit to get done at the job...


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  9. #5284
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    Quote Originally Posted by MontuckyFried View Post
    Yeah, except the mortality rate for children for measles and mumps is WAAAAAAY freaking higher than it is with COVID. Like with mumps, it's the 0-3 year old demo that is most likely to die from it. Covid's exactly the opposite. Correct me if I'm wrong, but haven't most vaccinations required for children been for diseases that have the greatest chance of harming said children? Never thought it was so much about protecting the adults but rather the student population.

    Measles has the worst complications (including death) in kids <5 and adults >30

    Mumps has the worst complications in adolescents and older (orchitis (inflamed testicles) and oophoritis (inflamed ovaries) to the point of sterilizing... also causing high rates of spontaneous abortion in women).

    Rubella has it's worst effects on pregnant women and their unborn children causing awful birth defects and disability.

    Chickenpox as an adult? BAD

    Before vaccines the reason they wanted everyone to get these diseases in childhood, (eg Measles Party or Chickenpox Party) was because these diseases are far worse in adulthood. School age children suffer, but have the lower risk. The reason we get kids vaccinated early is to protect them. The reason why they are at least required to attend school is because school is the perfect setting to spread disease (and take it home).

    It is about protecting the individual from risk AND EVERYONE ELSE TOO.

    The total benefits of immunizations are greater than the sum of the individual benefits.
    Quote Originally Posted by blurred
    skiing is hiking all day so that you can ski on shitty gear for 5 minutes.

  10. #5285
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    Quote Originally Posted by dunfree View Post
    “Science” knew lead was toxic since almost before their was science and lead paint was known to be toxic to children by the early 1900s but there was resistance to change because lead makes good paints - nice coverage, drying, lasts.
    Ancient Egyptian’s and Romans made the connection between asbestos miners dying early and the nature of the material they were mining as well....


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  11. #5286
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    Quote Originally Posted by dunfree View Post
    “Science” knew lead was toxic since almost before their was science and lead paint was known to be toxic to children by the early 1900s but there was resistance to change because lead makes good paints - nice coverage, drying, lasts.
    Exactly. Science gets in the way of capitalism. That is a fundamental dispute that is as American as apple pie

  12. #5287
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    That's exactly my point. In the capitalistic society we have created that seeks a quick buck over long term health effects it is not surprising that 40% of the US is hesitant to trust "the man" that the vax is safe. And this is not something that can be solved overnight as it is ingrained in who we are.

  13. #5288
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    Quote Originally Posted by altasnob View Post
    That's exactly my point. In the capitalistic society we have created that seeks a quick buck over long term health effects it is not surprising that 40% of the US is hesitant to trust "the man" that the vax is safe. And this is not something that can be solved overnight as it is ingrained in who we are.
    not to mention that the far left has frequently objected to "the man" and the right has objected to anything associated with government. So many people, on both sides of the political spectrum, have been indoctrinated into the idea that government is not to be trusted, even if it's not based in any recent facts.
    "fuck off you asshat gaper shit for brains fucktard wanker." - Jesus Christ
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  14. #5289
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    Quote Originally Posted by ticketchecker View Post
    I'm wearing one anywhere I'm being asked to, same as always. Our governor lifted the outside mask mandate so I'm not wearing one walking my dog around the neighborhood anymore.
    I have a buff around my neck when I walk/hike the dogs. I pull it up if I'm going to pass someone that's wearing a mask/buff just to be polite. I know it's silly, but so is saying have a nice day. If someone isn't covering their face-holes, then neither do I.

    After the year+ of Covid, the last thing I want to do is create unnecessary stress/conflict in social situations.

  15. #5290
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    Quote Originally Posted by nickwm21 View Post
    Ancient Egyptian’s and Romans made the connection between asbestos miners dying early and the nature of the material they were mining as well....


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    I was surprised to see popcorn ceilings in the pyramids I visited in Egypt, that's for sure.

  16. #5291
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    Quote Originally Posted by Danno View Post
    not to mention that the far left has frequently objected to "the man" and the right has objected to anything associated with government. So many people, on both sides of the political spectrum, have been indoctrinated into the idea that government is not to be trusted, even if it's not based in any recent facts.
    So if a difficulty of in our society is that capital wants to privatize profits and eschew socialized costs while being pushed in our lite-welfare mixed/capitalist economy that is trying to regulate and account for socialized cost while fighting against the growing oligarchic/chronyism trends...

    How does that relate to individuals in the who don't care about socialized benefits of individual action like vaccination that are developed by capital at the behest (and often with the support) of a government socializing the costs for the collective benefit while also regulating for social safety?
    Quote Originally Posted by blurred
    skiing is hiking all day so that you can ski on shitty gear for 5 minutes.

  17. #5292
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    Quote Originally Posted by neufox47 View Post
    What the fuck are you vaccine hesitant cowards afraid of? What type of moron is afraid of a vaccine? It’s one of the safest interventions known to man. Fucking Advil and Tylenol are more dangerous.

    We have been in a global pandemic for over a year and now that we have the chance to vanquish the enemy you are going to get squeamish and decide to let it off the ropes? Yea sure, just go ahead and keep transmitting, not like there are already variants that are more contagious, more deadly and affect younger populations. You’re choosing the outcome of Afghanistan over WWII? What kind of pussies are you?

    Love the questions too, “are we going to give kids the same dose as an adult?” Yea, the fucking army of scientists who spent their lives studying this shit didn’t think of that one. They are all like gee, “let’s give the Nobel Prize to this janitor for realizing that we should consider whether to give different doses to people who weigh 1/6th of what an adult does”. Shut the fuck up you ignorant twat. You aren’t special and you aren’t very bright. Maybe instead of just asking questions whose answers are known, just not by your ignorant ass, you should actually listen to the fucking experts.

    Fuck.


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    I'd love to hear Louis Black read that.

  18. #5293
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    Quote Originally Posted by old_newguy View Post
    We all get to stop with the COVID precautions and wearing masks in Oregon when we hit 70% having received their first shot.
    I wish the CDC and more states made statements this clear and offered guidance on where the finish line is at. It might help move those fencesitters toward getting vaxed if they knew this was the way to get life back to normal.
    Wait, how can we trust this guy^^^ He's clearly not DJSapp

  19. #5294
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    It's not that my anti-vax friends don't give a rats ass about the socialized benefits of the vax. It's that they believe the potential long term negative effects of the vax on themselves outweighs that socialized benefits. And if you question that choice, they will point to all the chemicals we have ingested in out lifetime that latter were shown to be detrimental. That personal calculation can change as more information is available. An anti-vax friend and his front line nurse girlfriend recently changed their mind and signed up for the vax. I think their personal calculation on the safety of the vax did not change but they didn't want to be the dicks that prevent us from getting herd immunity.

  20. #5295
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    Quote Originally Posted by Summit View Post
    Measles has the worst complications (including death) in kids <5 and adults >30

    Mumps has the worst complications in adolescents and older (orchitis (inflamed testicles) and oophoritis (inflamed ovaries) to the point of sterilizing... also causing high rates of spontaneous abortion in women).

    Rubella has it's worst effects on pregnant women and their unborn children causing awful birth defects and disability.

    Chickenpox as an adult? BAD

    Before vaccines the reason they wanted everyone to get these diseases in childhood, (eg Measles Party or Chickenpox Party) was because these diseases are far worse in adulthood. School age children suffer, but have the lower risk. The reason we get kids vaccinated early is to protect them. The reason why they are at least required to attend school is because school is the perfect setting to spread disease (and take it home).

    It is about protecting the individual from risk AND EVERYONE ELSE TOO.

    The total benefits of immunizations are greater than the sum of the individual benefits.
    In my career the thing that had the most emotional impact on me was the tour we had in med school of the institution in Coldwater, MI where they warehoused the profoundly mentally disabled--no one there could talk, few could feed themselves, few could interact with other humans, most could only lie in bed. Most were the victims of the "usual" childhood viral illnesses, including prenatal rubella. Not everyone dies. Imagine yourself or your loved ones "living" like that.

  21. #5296
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    Quote Originally Posted by Not DJSapp View Post
    I wish the CDC and more states made statements this clear and offered guidance on where the finish line is at. It might help move those fencesitters toward getting vaxed if they knew this was the way to get life back to normal.
    Might work for some fence sitters
    The antis distort this as coercion (but everything is twisted to reinforce their alternate reality).
    Quote Originally Posted by blurred
    skiing is hiking all day so that you can ski on shitty gear for 5 minutes.

  22. #5297
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    Quote Originally Posted by Not DJSapp View Post
    I wish the CDC and more states made statements this clear and offered guidance on where the finish line is at. It might help move those fencesitters toward getting vaxed if they knew this was the way to get life back to normal.
    So I did some additional reading and it looks like masking may not go away at 70% but still good to have some metrics.

    I will say that OR has been pretty good at communicating that “if X threshold is reached then Y happens” during this whole thing. The metrics have changed, but they are usually out a week or two in advance saying “hey, wake up, restaurants are closing in two weeks unless hospitalizations go down, stop hanging out without masks.”

  23. #5298
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    Quote Originally Posted by old goat View Post
    In my career the thing that had the most emotional impact on me was the tour we had in med school of the institution in Coldwater, MI where they warehoused the profoundly mentally disabled--no one there could talk, few could feed themselves, few could interact with other humans, most could only lie in bed. Most were the victims of the "usual" childhood viral illnesses, including prenatal rubella. Not everyone dies. Imagine yourself or your loved ones "living" like that.
    Few know of this anymore. Far fewer experienced this. This lost collective memory profoundly affects the lack of perceived risk in parental decisions to not vaccinate children.
    Quote Originally Posted by blurred
    skiing is hiking all day so that you can ski on shitty gear for 5 minutes.

  24. #5299
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    Quote Originally Posted by neufox47 View Post
    What the fuck are you vaccine hesitant cowards afraid of? What type of moron is afraid of a vaccine? It’s one of the safest interventions known to man. Fucking Advil and Tylenol are more dangerous.

    We have been in a global pandemic for over a year and now that we have the chance to vanquish the enemy you are going to get squeamish and decide to let it off the ropes? Yea sure, just go ahead and keep transmitting, not like there are already variants that are more contagious, more deadly and affect younger populations. You’re choosing the outcome of Afghanistan over WWII? What kind of pussies are you?

    Love the questions too, “are we going to give kids the same dose as an adult?” Yea, the fucking army of scientists who spent their lives studying this shit didn’t think of that one. They are all like gee, “let’s give the Nobel Prize to this janitor for realizing that we should consider whether to give different doses to people who weigh 1/6th of what an adult does”. Shut the fuck up you ignorant twat. You aren’t special and you aren’t very bright. Maybe instead of just asking questions whose answers are known, just not by your ignorant ass, you should actually listen to the fucking experts.

    Fuck.


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    Well done!
    Quote Originally Posted by Downbound Train View Post
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  25. #5300
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    Quote Originally Posted by altasnob View Post
    That's exactly my point. In the capitalistic society we have created that seeks a quick buck over long term health effects it is not surprising that 40% of the US is hesitant to trust "the man" that the vax is safe. And this is not something that can be solved overnight as it is ingrained in who we are.
    Quote Originally Posted by Danno View Post
    not to mention that the far left has frequently objected to "the man" and the right has objected to anything associated with government. So many people, on both sides of the political spectrum, have been indoctrinated into the idea that government is not to be trusted, even if it's not based in any recent facts.
    [Tuskegee has entered the chat]

    US Public Health Service Syphilis Study at Tuskegee
    https://www.cdc.gov/tuskegee/index.html
    Tuskegee Experiment: The Infamous Syphilis Study
    https://www.history.com/news/the-inf...tuskegee-study
    Tuskegee Syphilis Study
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tuskegee_Syphilis_Study

    This is a HUGE, and valid reason that many black people are understandably hesitant to be the first ones to jump on the bandwagon, but it's also in no small part why ALL of us don't 100% trust "the man" as it were.

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