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  1. #5826
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    Quote Originally Posted by powdrhound View Post
    Are you thinking that this should apply to Flu shots, as well? Or any other/all vaccines?
    Yes.

    Slight amend. The vaccines should not only be free or subsidized but you should also get a rate reduction / rebate incentive.

  2. #5827
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    Quote Originally Posted by jackstraw View Post
    No, they haven't you ignorant fuck!

    22k new cases yesterday and that doesn't count the people not getting tested. Which without a doubt has been and is still a significant number.
    Then get fucking vaxed, for gods sake. It's on them, unless they're children, but, most aren't. I heard a number the other day that told me that 95 or 97% of hospital admissions are unvaxxed. This is a fucking wonder drug that we should be on our knees celebrating over. Sorry, not my problem anymore if somebody didn't get poked.

  3. #5828
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    Besides the fact that everywhere I go now, admission has become mask optional for the vaxed. Large, private corporations like Starbucks, REI, and Whole Foods are allowing the vaxed to go sans mask. I know because I visited all three today. These are companies that thought long and hard about transitioning to that, with a tower full of lawyers signing off on the decision. And it's all happening in a very blue and well educated state. Now, what does CNN know that they don't? That Trump isn't president, so they need to stoke the fear fire as long as they can to get eyeballs? Maybe.

  4. #5829
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    Nov 2011
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    Quote Originally Posted by RoooR View Post
    Those are some good carrots. Eventually we'll need to use some sticks as well. Like letting insurance companies charge higher premiums for the UNVAXED and/or not have to cover COVID treatment for the UNVAXED.
    While I understand the sentiment here, giving private insurors more reasons to deny claims is not where we want to go. Not to mention, someone will end up paying anyway. Look in the mirror for your answer.

  5. #5830
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    Quote Originally Posted by thedude2340 View Post
    While I understand the sentiment here, giving private insurors more reasons to deny claims is not where we want to go. Not to mention, someone will end up paying anyway. Look in the mirror for your answer.
    Not a reason to deny claims, but discounts should be on the table. They give you a better rate if you don't use tobacco, for instance. Voluntary decisions such as vaxing should make people eligible for better insurance rates. Now if it turns out covid isn't a big risk in the long run, believe me, the insurance companies will figure that out quick and adjust. They are in the business of assessing risk and there's no guesswork involved in their game.

  6. #5831
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    Oct 2012
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    [QUOTE=TBS;6324724]

    And what makes these people believe they can just show up from Africa and get jabbed? /QUOTE]

    Racist much?

  7. #5832
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    Sep 2020
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    Quote Originally Posted by Benny Profane View Post
    Large, private corporations like Starbucks, REI, and Whole Foods. I know because I visited all three today.
    It's too bad you didn't have time to swing by a Menchie's. You could have gone douchebag 4 for 4.

  8. #5833
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    Quote Originally Posted by yeahman View Post
    Not a reason to deny claims, but discounts should be on the table. They give you a better rate if you don't use tobacco, for instance. Voluntary decisions such as vaxing should make people eligible for better insurance rates. Now if it turns out covid isn't a big risk in the long run, believe me, the insurance companies will figure that out quick and adjust. They are in the business of assessing risk and there's no guesswork involved in their game.
    Most private insurance is job based--employer pays the same for all employees. Under the ACA age, tobacco use, and family size are the only factors that can be used to adjust rates, so adjusting insurance rates for vaccination status would require an act of Congress. And even if the increase was legal, if it was big enough to get people to get vaccinated a lot of people would choose to go uninsured instead--not the folks who can be bought with a beer but the serious antivaxers, and when they get the Covid guess who winds up paying their bills.

  9. #5834
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    Sep 2011
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    I wonder how many of the unvaccinated evangelicals have a “health care sharing ministry” instead of traditional health insurance. Until yesterday I didn’t know such a thing existed. Cheap but essentially unregulated and they could deny paying anything Covid related. Their target market certainly overlaps the anti vaxxers to a large degree.

    https://www.bostonglobe.com/2021/06/...efuses-pay-up/

  10. #5835
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    Jesus heals.

  11. #5836
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    Quote Originally Posted by old goat View Post
    Most private insurance is job based--employer pays the same for all employees. Under the ACA age, tobacco use, and family size are the only factors that can be used to adjust rates, so adjusting insurance rates for vaccination status would require an act of Congress. And even if the increase was legal, if it was big enough to get people to get vaccinated a lot of people would choose to go uninsured instead--not the folks who can be bought with a beer but the serious antivaxers, and when they get the Covid guess who winds up paying their bills.
    There are ways around this. Just look at discounts for health and wellness programs.

  12. #5837
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    Quote Originally Posted by RoooR View Post
    There are ways around this. Just look at discounts for health and wellness programs.
    Those are in the ACA and apply to group plans--those that have the same premium for every employee.

  13. #5838
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    Quote Originally Posted by The AD View Post
    Was I living on the same planet that you were over the last year?

    33 million cases and nearly 600,000 deaths in the U.S. alone is nothing?
    Life expectancy in 1900 was 50, yes 50 years old. as of 2020, life expectancy is closer to 78. Modern medicine is keeping people alive longer.

    Nature comes along with a virus and brings us back closer to the mean, but this angle gets no press. Lots of deaths due to covid can be contributed to people that modern medicine has artificially kept them living longer.

  14. #5839
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    To Vaccinate or Not---The Rat Flu Odyssey Continues

    Quote Originally Posted by Asspen View Post
    Life expectancy in 1900 was 50, yes 50 years old. as of 2020, life expectancy is closer to 78. Modern medicine is keeping people alive longer.

    Nature comes along with a virus and brings us back closer to the mean, but this angle gets no press. Lots of deaths due to covid can be contributed to people that modern medicine has artificially kept them living longer.
    And in 1800 it was 30 years old.

    This angle doesn’t get any press because it marginalizes the deaths of millions of people around the world. Just because people are living longer now doesn’t mean we shouldn’t care about them dying.

  15. #5840
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    Quote Originally Posted by Asspen View Post
    Life expectancy in 1900 was 50, yes 50 years old. as of 2020, life expectancy is closer to 78. Modern medicine is keeping people alive longer.

    Nature comes along with a virus and brings us back closer to the mean, but this angle gets no press. Lots of deaths due to covid can be contributed to people that modern medicine has artificially kept them living longer.
    And a fairly large piece of that "keeping people alive longer" is eradicating, or at least controlling, infectious diseases. If you look at the list of leading causes of death in 1900 vs. today they reflect that.

    "Artificially keeping people alive" is a silly thing to say in this context.

  16. #5841
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    Quote Originally Posted by Asspen View Post
    Life expectancy in 1900 was 50, yes 50 years old. as of 2020, life expectancy is closer to 78. Modern medicine is keeping people alive longer.

    Nature comes along with a virus and brings us back closer to the mean, but this angle gets no press. Lots of deaths due to covid can be contributed to people that modern medicine has artificially kept them living longer.
    This wins the prize for the absolutely worst COVID take I've seen on the internet.

  17. #5842
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    Quote Originally Posted by RoooR View Post
    This wins the prize for the absolutely worst COVID take I've seen on the internet.
    Not really. He's right in a way. If Covid happened in 1900, hardly anyone would have noticed, because it's primary victims were already dead.

    We have an enormous amount of very old and very physically unfit people that did not exist in history. You just can't shrug that off.

  18. #5843
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    Quote Originally Posted by RoooR View Post
    This wins the prize for the absolutely worst COVID take I've seen on the internet.
    You must not poke around much

  19. #5844
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    Quote Originally Posted by Benny Profane View Post
    Not really. He's right in a way. If Covid happened in 1900, hardly anyone would have noticed, because it's primary victims were already dead.

    We have an enormous amount of very old and very physically unfit people that did not exist in history. You just can't shrug that off.
    The fact is they are alive now. That's really all that matters.

  20. #5845
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    The reason we have long life expectancies FOR ADULTS:

    1. Clean water and sanitation
    2. Vaccination
    3. Hand washing, sterile technique, and anesthesia
    4. Food and drug safety
    5. Antibiotics (DISTANT 5th place)

    The only components of modern medicine in that list are vaccines to an extent, antibiotics, and anesthesia which all came in the first half of the 20th century or before.

    The primary reason the life expectancy NUMBER is up is because of reduced infant mortality which was the primary factor in lowering life expectancy averages overall... and the things that fix infant mortality are very similar to those that save adults:
    1. Vaccination
    2. Hand washing
    3. Clean water
    4. Pasteurizing milk
    5. Teaching parents basic care

    Dr. Semmelweis had hand washing figured out in 1847, and he proved it, but his conclusions were rejected in Continental Europe and he was ill treated for having made his breakthrough. It took Florence Nightingale to really get the concept of handwashing accepted and implemented in the mid/late 1850s in the British Empire and then beyond.... slowly... even though US surgeons were still wiping their instruments on their boots during the Civil War.
    Last edited by Summit; 06-03-2021 at 10:35 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by blurred
    skiing is hiking all day so that you can ski on shitty gear for 5 minutes.

  21. #5846
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    Dec 2005
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    People used to die from infections that are now treated easily with antibiotics you pick up from the pharmacy.

    I’m not talking about old people being kept alive in homes. I’m talking about people on here who visit their doctor on Friday and go skiing on Saturday.

    The internet tough talk from those very same people is hilarious but also sad.

  22. #5847
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    Quote Originally Posted by Summit View Post
    The reason we have long life expectancies FOR ADULTS:

    1. Clean water and sanitation
    2. Vaccination
    3. Hand washing, sterile technique, and anesthesia
    4. Food and drug safety
    5. Antibiotics (DISTANT 5th place)

    The only components of modern medicine in that list are vaccines to an extent, antibiotics, and anesthesia which all came in the first half of the 20th century or before.

    The primary reason the life expectancy NUMBER is up is because of reduced infant mortality, which is due to:
    1. Vaccination
    2. Hand washing
    3. Clean water
    4. Pasteurizing milk
    5. Teaching parents basic care
    And the fact that most in the advanced world do not live on farms and owe their existence to farming with no economic social safety nets to speak of. Farming was/is a dangerous life.

    I wish most would read more history. At least what life was like before machines and the internal combustion engine, which isn't that long ago.

  23. #5848
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    Quote Originally Posted by old goat View Post
    Those are in the ACA and apply to group plans--those that have the same premium for every employee.
    But the employee share of the premium varies based on those health and wellness credits... so employers can incentiize things that would drop the overall average utilization and thus premiums. Vaccine = health and wellness credit? That's easy.
    Quote Originally Posted by blurred
    skiing is hiking all day so that you can ski on shitty gear for 5 minutes.

  24. #5849
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    Mar 2006
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    Missoula, MT
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    Every time I think of apologizing and making up with my sister-in-law, I get upset again. She's more or less a public health leader. Certainly will be when she starts teaching at UM Western. What in the cinnamon toast fuck.
    No longer stuck.

    Quote Originally Posted by stuckathuntermtn View Post
    Just an uneducated guess.

  25. #5850
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    Quote Originally Posted by Asspen View Post
    Life expectancy in 1900 was 50, yes 50 years old. as of 2020, life expectancy is closer to 78. Modern medicine is keeping people alive longer.

    Nature comes along with a virus and brings us back closer to the mean, but this angle gets no press. Lots of deaths due to covid can be contributed to people that modern medicine has artificially kept them living longer.
    Felony abuse of statistics should be an actual crime.

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