To Vaccinate or Not---The Rat Flu Odyssey Continues

[SumJongGuy]

I haven't changed my brake pads in 11 years because I don't want to support "Big Asbestos." The metal grinding sound, to me, means they're working.

It's the sound of FREEDOM!

[skiJ]

Please
don't feed the trolls.

Better a couple of these guys are /// Just get 'the silent treatment'.

if their post is political,
Please don't quote it...

Please keep this post in the neighborhood of covid and vaccination.


Thank you. skiJ

[Mofro261]

back on topic...

Infectious viral load in unvaccinated and vaccinated patients infected with SARS-CoV-2 WT, Delta and Omicron
https://doi.org/10.1101/2022.01.10.22269010

Abstract Background Viral load (VL) is one determinant of secondary transmission of SARS-CoV-2. Emergence of variants of concerns (VOC) Alpha and Delta was ascribed, at least partly, to higher VL. Furthermore, with parts of the population vaccinated, knowledge on VL in vaccine breakthrough infections is crucial. As RNA VL is only a weak proxy for infectiousness, studies on infectious virus presence by cell culture isolation are of importance. Methods We assessed nasopharyngeal swabs of COVID-19 patients for quantitative infectious viral titres (IVT) by focus-forming assay and compared to overall virus isolation success and RNA genome copies. We assessed infectious viral titres during the first 5 symptomatic days in a total of 384 patients: unvaccinated individuals infected with pre-VOC SARS-CoV-2 (n= 118) or Delta (n= 127) and vaccine breakthrough infections with Delta (n= 121) or Omicron (n=18). Findings Correlation between RNA copy number and IVT was low for all groups. No correlation between IVTs and age or sex was seen. We observed higher RNA genome copies in pre-VOC SARS-CoV-2 compared to Delta, but significantly higher IVTs in Delta infected individuals. In vaccinated vs. unvaccinated Delta infected individuals, RNA genome copies were comparable but vaccinated individuals have significantly lower IVTs, and cleared virus faster. Vaccinated individuals with Omicron infection had comparable IVTs to Delta breakthrough infections. Interpretation Quantitative IVTs can give detailed insights into virus shedding kinetics. Vaccination was associated with lower infectious titres and faster clearance for Delta, showing that vaccination would also lower transmission risk. Omicron vaccine breakthrough infections did not show elevated IVTs compared to Delta, suggesting that other mechanisms than increase VL contribute to the high infectiousness of Omicron.

[powdrhound]

///


Thank you. skiJ

I have learned to read you pretty well. I have a very scattered thought process too.

But how do I interpret/react to the /// ?
Thanks.

[Mustonen]

I visualize hand gestures. Three would be emphatic, like some fired up Italian guy. One would be like the trump gesture.

[SumJongGuy]

Yeah, remains to be seen. I do find the coordinated effort by mainstream and social media to refute the idea to be somewhat curious.


Questions on casts (another super duper tgr analogy, btw)
Are the cast manufacturers trying to get everyone on the planet "casted"?
Did the definition of "cast" change to include mRNA cast technology where your skin gets programmed to stiffen (uh huh huh huh huh) for several weeks?
Do the casts' effectiveness wane after a few months, necessitating booster casts?
Are there demonstrable conflicts of interest between cast manufacturer CEOs and 'top government officials', etc.
Does Klaus Schwab have a cast on his wiener?

Replace "cast" with Measles Vaccine (and the umpteen others every kid gets) and get back to us.. And yes. measles vaccine can wane.

[old goat]

Good question. I don't know if each wave is always associated with a new variant or not. But just because one variant becomes dominant doesn't mean the other variants instantly die out. Delta is still kicking around, and still accounts for a chunk of cases in the US, and an even greater chunk in other countries. I assume the reason WHO says over 50% of Europe will get COVID soon, but didn't make the same warning for the US, isn't because the US is doing a great job of controlling spread versus Europe, but because in Europe, Omicron accounts for nearly every single case where as the US still has Delta competing. And it appears immunity from both natural infection, and vaccination, wanes (which makes it easier for variants to stick around). Bottom line, even Fauci is spouting the "we're all going to get this" mantra.

Map of where Omicron presence is greatest:

https://nextstrain.org/groups/blab/ncov/omicron

Generally speaking a fitter virus like Omicron (able to make more copies of itself and spread them to more hosts) will drive out a less fit virus like Delta if they are immunologically similar enough that Delta can't infect if Omicron got there first. I think it's too soon to stay if that will be the case or if Delta will be able to infect people who have had Omicron. Since the reverse is true--that Omicron can cause infections in people who have had other variants my guess is that Delta won't go away.

We have a 25 yo unvaccinated male in the icu. Healthy, mild asthma. He came in for Covid and developed Guillian-Barre syndrome. He’s past the isolation stage but we had to trach him and he got a peg tube because of his respiratory status and ongoing paralysis.


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AS bad as it sounds the odds of that unfortunate man recovering completely are pretty good. One of my parttners go GB (unknown cause) and was many weeks on a vent with a trach, completely paralyzed. Recovered enough to practice surgery, drive race cars and ditch his wife and marry his ICU nurse.

[skiJ]

/// means I would really like to write something else, and instead, I am trying to be polite.

If I write, 'the silent treatment' , when I want to write, a couple of these guys should just be ignored...


There is discussion about moving these threads to polyA -
I believe that would be unfortunate Because I believe there is some important history here.


do what you've got to do -

skiJ

[Mofro261]

Generally speaking a fitter virus like Omicron (able to make more copies of itself and spread them to more hosts) will drive out a less fit virus like Delta if they are immunologically similar enough that Delta can't infect if Omicron got there first. I think it's too soon to stay if that will be the case or if Delta will be able to infect people who have had Omicron. Since the reverse is true--that Omicron can cause infections in people who have had other variants my guess is that Delta won't go away.

My guess is the opposite- Delta is outta here.

Neutralization of ancestral SARS-CoV-2 and variants Alpha, Beta, Gamma, Delta, Zeta and Omicron by mRNA vaccination and infection-derived immunity through homologous and heterologous variants
https://doi.org/10.1101/2021.12.28.21268491

Emerging SARS-CoV-2 variants of concern/interest (VOC/VOI) raise questions about effectiveness of neutralizing antibodies derived from infection or vaccination. As the population immunity to SARS-CoV-2 has become more complex due to prior infection and/or vaccination, understanding the antigenic relationship between variants is needed. Here, we have assessed in total 104 blood specimens from convalescent individuals after infection with early-pandemic SARS-CoV-2 (pre-VOC) or with Alpha, Beta, Gamma or Delta, post-vaccination after double-dose mRNA-vaccination and break through infections due to Delta or Omicron. Neutralization against seven authentic SARS-CoV-2 isolates (B.1, Alpha, Beta, Gamma, Delta, Zeta, Omicron) was assessed by plaque-reduction neutralization assay. We found highest neutralization titers against the homologous (previously infecting) variant, with lower neutralization efficiency against heterologous variants. Significant loss of neutralization for Omicron was observed but to a varying degree depending on previously infecting variant (23.0-fold in Beta-convalescence up to 56.1-fold in Alpha-convalescence), suggesting that infection-derived immunity varies, but independent of the infecting variant is only poorly protective against Omicron. Of note, Zeta VOI showed also pronounced escape from neutralization of up to 28.2-fold in Alpha convalescent samples. Antigenic mapping reveals both Zeta and Omicron as separate antigenic clusters. Double dose vaccination showed robust neutralization for Alpha, Beta, Gamma, Delta and Zeta, with fold-change reduction of only 2.8 (for Alpha) up to 6.9 (for Beta). Escape from neutralization for Zeta was largely restored in vaccinated individuals, while Omicron still showed a loss of neutralization of 85.7-fold compared to pre-VOC SARS-CoV-2. Combined immunity from infection followed by vaccination or vaccine breakthrough infection showed highest titers and most robust neutralization for heterologous variants. Breakthrough infection with Delta showed only 12.5-fold reduced neutralization for Omicron, while breakthrough infection with Omicron showed only a 1.5-fold loss for Delta, suggests that infection with antigenically different variants can boost immunity for antigens closer to the vaccine strain. Antigenic cartography showed also a tendency towards broader neutralizing capacity for heterologous variants. We conclude that the complexity of background immunity needs to be taken into account when assessing new VOCs.

[old goat]

What I read there is that natural immunity against Omicron in people previously infected by other variants is reduced, vaccine immunity against Omicron is reduced, but immunity was much better in people who were both previously infected and vaccinated. At least as far as antibody titers go. Do I read that right?

When it comes to guessing your guess is obviously better than mine.

[I've seen black diamonds!]

-I had a monoclonal antibody infusion on December 3rd.
-At the time I was told to wait 90 days before getting a booster shot (apparently the antibodies may interfere with vaccine effectiveness).
-I have a booster shot requirement at work starting Feb 24.

Just did a telehealth appointment with my doc to talk about the situation. Weird conversation. First he though I was asking for another monoclonal antibody infusion (I wasn't). Then he seemed to think I wanted to get out of a vaccine requirement (I don't- I'll get that shot as soon as someone I trust tells me I should). Then he wondered why my job would have a booster requirement at all (I work at a university- he asked and I answered that question 3 times). Then he told me to just get the booster shot, but it was pretty clear that he had no idea that there was a recommendation to wait 90 days before getting boosted (even though I explained that several times and offered to share a link). Throughout the whole call the guy was close to incoherent (he was never like that at all in the past).

Thoughts from the medical professionals here (besides getting a new doctor, which is now on my to-do list)? Should I just get boosted on Feb 23rd? Or deal with the annoying process of getting a medical exemption?

[bennymac]

Dumb and Old

My analogy was directed at the “vaccine makers are making profit!” post. But you already knew that.

You can try to score points by taking that analogy and expanding it in a disingenuous fashion to the point it falls apart. But that would just be a transparent attempt to distort it in order to feel some sort of smug but ultimately impotent sense of satisfaction. Which is just pathetic and sad.

[bodywhomper]

Isbd: I vote wait the 90 days and get the exemption.

We’re asking a lot of our primary cares physicians. I now have neighbors that think they are bulletproof because of what their doctor told them after they rec’d monoclonal treatment in early Dec for a delta infections (they are elderly and triple vaxed).

back on topic...

Infectious viral load in unvaccinated and vaccinated patients infected with SARS-CoV-2 WT, Delta and Omicron
https://doi.org/10.1101/2022.01.10.22269010

Is a nasal swab the best method for viral sampling for omicron? I was under the impression that this method may not provide best quality samples for the variant.

[Dumb0ldDad]

I get zero satisfaction out of any of this. We all have been (or will be) infected with a GoF virus, injected with a new type of 'vaccine', or both. No one knows the long term effects of any of it. This sucks.

Your analogy was a poor one, as are most here. It fell apart all by itself. Maybe try something automotive-related next time, those seem to be popular.

[MagnificentUnicorn]

I don't check this thread often. But this is something no one talks about.

The money behind the vaccines. Unreal.

He lost me when he said that it’s important to remember that the pharmaceutical companies had the cost of development covered by the government. True in a few instances but in the case of Pfizer-BioNTech, the most successful and only(?) approved vaccine, they didn’t participate in Operation Warp Speed. Blatant lie and he’s got an agenda.


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[seano732]

I get zero satisfaction out of any of this. We all have been (or will be) infected with a GoF virus, injected with a new type of 'vaccine', or both. No one knows the long term effects of any of it. This sucks.

Your analogy was a poor one, as are most here. It fell apart all by itself. Maybe try something automotive-related next time, those seem to be popular.

Why do you keep resetting your post count asshole? Fuck off.

[MagnificentUnicorn]

What are the consequences of mass psychosis?

Why don’t you ask yourself, you’re a Trumptard


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[GimpToo]

Curious - who here has ever had a cold that only lasted five or less days? Speaking from experience - symptoms hit quick, and leave just as quickly!

[seano732]

JFC here we go with the whack a troll………Sig checks out.

[CarlMega]

Why do you keep resetting your post count asshole? Fuck off.

Are we sure he's not RJ? I don't normally advocate for bans but DoD has creepy factor running at 11. So if it happens, welp.

Edit: I mean, his contribution on display is literally zero. So like - no loss, right? I mean, without some sort of record, we should go by what we can all see - a zero post bot of dubious nature. Funny how that works out.

[juanrogera]

A MAN claims his penis has shrunk by an inch-and-a-half due to Covid, and doctors say it can't be fixed.

The anonymous male said the lasting effect of the virus has damaged his self confidence.


Urologists say “Covid d*ck” is a real phenomenon, whereby the penis can reduce in size due to damage to blood vessels.

Source: https://www.the-sun.com/health/44456...vid-permanent/

[old goat]

Source: https://www.the-sun.com/health/44456...vid-permanent/

Apparently having Dr. Ashley Winter as your urologist can cure erectile dysfunction.
https://healthy.kaiserpermanente.org...winter-0679025

By the way, despite the source, this sounds legit.

[Meadow Skipper]

Forget vaxxing, forget ivermectin, forget drinking piss.
https://fortune.com/2022/01/12/canna...lls-lab-study/

I’m in.

[bennymac]

I get zero satisfaction out of any of this. We all have been (or will be) infected with a GoF virus, injected with a new type of 'vaccine', or both. No one knows the long term effects of any of it. This sucks.

Your analogy was a poor one, as are most here. It fell apart all by itself. Maybe try something automotive-related next time, those seem to be popular.

Nope to just about everything you said. Fuck off with your bullshit - trolls and idiots constantly popping up and cunting this thread up.

[sirbumpsalot]

Nope to just about everything you said. Fuck off with your bullshit - trolls and idiots constantly popping up and cunting this thread up.

And the echo chamber rolls on.......