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  1. #3926
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    Quote Originally Posted by XXX-er View Post
    https://www.cbc.ca/news/world/us-vac...mand-1.5989684

    the political divide on who is vaxxing in the USA

    guess before you open
    without seeing a statistical analysis my eyeball test says that the trend line is valid but the amount of overlap is considerable. You would really have to do a multivariate analysis to get a true picture--plot the percentage vaccinated against average years of education or against median income in a state and you might get a similar looking graph--like PG and HB said.

  2. #3927
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    Quote Originally Posted by puregravity View Post
    I generally think stats like that are BS. Lots of other things can create the same chart without making it political.
    You're relatively new here. To the planet I mean. I don't recall ever hearing about politician ranting about the hoax of the polio vax. Or any vax for that matter. This is all about politics when it's Trump and the Jim Jordans that half the population listens to. It is a new day darlin'.
    A few people feel the rain. Most people just get wet.

  3. #3928
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    Apologies if this has been covered. With the mRNA vaccine there has been speculation we need a booster shot or possibly annual booster shots depending on how the virus mutates. Is there any concern about multiple mRNA sequences somehow creating an unexpected response? Would each new booster require a trial period?

    I have little deep knowledge on this topic and my questions may be simplistic or foolish, but just been wondering and lots of smart folks on here.

    I get my second Pfizer vaccine tomorrow and grateful for the work scientists have done to make it possible.

  4. #3929
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    Quote Originally Posted by cat in january View Post
    Apologies if this has been covered. With the mRNA vaccine there has been speculation we need a booster shot or possibly annual booster shots depending on how the virus mutates. Is there any concern about multiple mRNA sequences somehow creating an unexpected response? Would each new booster require a trial period?

    I have little deep knowledge on this topic and my questions may be simplistic or foolish, but just been wondering and lots of smart folks on here.

    I get my second Pfizer vaccine tomorrow and grateful for the work scientists have done to make it possible.
    The mRNA that essentially IS the vaccine doesn't stick around beyond getting into your dedritic cells and getting translated into virus protein for further processing and presentation on the surface where it can engage B and T-cells. Then it goes away. Your body will establish resident B and T cell population that arise from the process so that if you're ever infected by the virus, you can mount a quick response. The education of the B and T cells is called "adaptive immunity" and conservatively takes around 2 weeks to complete. Bottom line, by the time a booster comes around there will not be any remaining mRNA from the first shot.

    The FDA has already told Moderna and Pfizer that they can skip phase I of the clinical trials process. Phase I is exclusively designed to check for early safety issues while establishing dose ranges that are hypothesized to be effective while not causing toxicity. Therefore, the variant-versions of the mRNA vaccines are already in Ph2 and will have data by end of summer. Whether we need a booster at all is a question that is still pending longer-term follow up data.

  5. #3930
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    Thanks for answering that and gives me a much better picture of what is going on

  6. #3931
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    Quote Originally Posted by XXX-er View Post
    such as ?
    Quote Originally Posted by old goat View Post
    without seeing a statistical analysis my eyeball test says that the trend line is valid but the amount of overlap is considerable. You would really have to do a multivariate analysis to get a true picture--plot the percentage vaccinated against average years of education or against median income in a state and you might get a similar looking graph--like PG and HB said.
    Something as simple as urban vs rural, or number of hospitals/clinics, or the weather, or actual incidence of disease, or mortality. All can do the same chart. Or population. Or how far one has to drive to get jabbed. Or the death rate per capita from COVID in the last year.

    In any case, the chart uses color to make a political argument. Take away the RED, and the trend line, and then look at the scale on the left. It doesn't start at zero and end at 100. It starts at 30 and ends at 70 and pretty much everyone is between 40 and 60.

    And it changes over time -- as much as probably reversing its trend line in another 100 days. So it is also a selected time slice and not indicative of hindsight.

    California is pretty much even with North Dakota.
    New York state is pretty much even with Alaska.

    There aren't more diametrically opposed polyass states than those 2 pairs and they pretty much register even on vaxing.
    OH, MY GAWD! ―John Hillerman
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  7. #3932
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    Quote Originally Posted by huckbucket View Post
    The mRNA that essentially IS the vaccine doesn't stick around beyond getting into your dedritic cells and getting translated into virus protein for further processing and presentation on the surface where it can engage B and T-cells. Then it goes away. Your body will establish resident B and T cell population that arise from the process so that if you're ever infected by the virus, you can mount a quick response. The education of the B and T cells is called "adaptive immunity" and conservatively takes around 2 weeks to complete. Bottom line, by the time a booster comes around there will not be any remaining mRNA from the first shot.

    The FDA has already told Moderna and Pfizer that they can skip phase I of the clinical trials process. Phase I is exclusively designed to check for early safety issues while establishing dose ranges that are hypothesized to be effective while not causing toxicity. Therefore, the variant-versions of the mRNA vaccines are already in Ph2 and will have data by end of summer. Whether we need a booster at all is a question that is still pending longer-term follow up data.
    Will they require a Phase 3?

  8. #3933
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    Quote Originally Posted by old goat View Post
    Will they require a Phase 3?
    OK. I'm glad you asked, because it revealed to me that I answered CAJ's question about clinical trials from memory and clearly got it all wrong. Sorry everyone for the misinformation. The end result is essentially the same but there are important differences. Here's the real scoop;

    In March, the trial of the Moderna vaccine covering the South African variant began. You can see all of the details here;
    https://www.nih.gov/news-events/news...vaccine-begins

    OG - It's a phase I trial that will complete enrollment this month and read out this summer. The primary endpoint is safety and the secondary endpoint (yet super important) is magitude and response rate of antibody generation (i.e. immunogenicity). There will be 60 people who were part of the original trial of the first Moderna vaccine and another 150 who are unvaccinated and never-infected. However, don't expect there to be a Ph2 or 3. In Feb, the FDA issued new policies for vaccine developers. You can find it here;
    https://www.fda.gov/news-events/pres...dressing-virus

    The important point is as follows;

    "For clinical data, the guidance recommends that a determination of effectiveness be supported by data from clinical immunogenicity studies, which would compare a recipient’s immune response to virus variants induced by the modified vaccine against the immune response to the authorized vaccine. Manufacturers are also encouraged to study the modified vaccine in both nave (non-vaccinated) individuals and in individuals previously vaccinated with the authorized vaccine. Additionally, the guidance outlines the FDA’s recommendations for assessments of safety to support an EUA for a modified vaccine. Finally, the guidance states that further discussions will be necessary to decide whether in the future, modified COVID-19 vaccines may be authorized without the need for clinical studies."

    As you can see in the bolded section, if Moderna demonstrate safety AND antibody reactivity in Ph1 it may already satisify these new FDA criteria to the extent it could earn them an EUA for the variant version. Notably, we may not need it and that is mentioned at length in that first article I linked. Time will tell.

  9. #3934
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    Wow, booked for AZ this Wednesday, at a godamned Walmart of all places. I assume they have a pharmacy there, and it's not on the loading dock in the smoking area lol.

    Every time-line and prediction for vaccinations up to this point in Ontario was for July, maybe September latest for my age group.

    All it took was Trudeau to seriously troll our premier, and a reporter to point out that by concentrating on some reluctant 55+ folks, thousands of vaccines were about to expire.

    Got booked. Got super excited. Then admittedly got angsty about it being AZ. Did some further reading and I'm back to beyond excited.

    Really did not see this coming. Just this last Friday it was announced we were in a police enforced lock down. By Saturday afternoon all but two of our provinces forces made public statements to the effect of "yeah fuck that, we're not randomly stopping people to ask why they're out of their home".

    Sunday the Prime Minister announces he's working with other provinces (specifically implying he's not bothering with our premier) to get help to Ontarians, plus the very public call out from the reporter, and boom, finally some action from the province. Roller coaster of a weekend.

    Edited to ad, I do have once concern. Since this first shot of the vaccine is due to an unplanned surplus, I hope it doesn't imply there could be supply issues to receive the second dose. Maybe we'll be mixing and matching by then.

  10. #3935
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    Got my second dose of Moderna on Saturday. I didnt have any reaction to the first dose, but the second shot was another story. Sore arm, and just felt wiped out. Spent most of the last day and a half in bed. Certainly woke up my immune system, and hopefully created lots of antibodies.

    To get my first shot required spending 4 hours waiting online to get the appointment, and another 2 hours waiting in line at the center. The second shot went a lot quicker, no line at all at the center. Maybe the talk about blood clots has scared people off, even though its a completely different vaccine than J&J..

  11. #3936
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    Quote Originally Posted by huckbucket View Post
    Not defending out resident dipshit, but the answer to your question was right in the article. Examples include;

    " ... population density of your area, your education level, and whether you have regular access to health care."
    You forgot size of reproductive organs.
    It's a war of the mind and we're armed to the teeth.

  12. #3937
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    The world is perfect. Appreciate the details.

  13. #3938
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    Quote Originally Posted by Benny Profane View Post
    I was shocked, said Hauser. I thought: What the heck? How did that happen? I now tell everyone, including my colleagues, not to let their guard down after the vaccine.
    September still "fuck em all month" Benny?

  14. #3939
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    Yup. Look at the numbers. Millions poked, a few thousand sick, a handful dead, and I'd love to hear about pre existing conditions of the latter. You gonna stay inside with your mask on after September, scared little boy? Have fun.

    The world is perfect. Appreciate the details.

  15. #3940
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    coming from the guy whos scared to buy pots on the street
    thats alinis morristte funny stuff bunners
    "When the child was a child it waited patiently for the first snow and it still does"- Van "The Man" Morrison
    "I find I have already had my reward, in the doing of the thing" - Buzz Holmstrom
    "THIS IS WHAT WE DO"-AML -ski on in eternal peace
    "I have posted in here but haven't read it carefully with my trusty PoliAsshat antenna on."-DipshitDanno

  16. #3941
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    How much acid did you do as an adolescent?

    The world is perfect. Appreciate the details.

  17. #3942
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    I'm still waiting to hear how you plan to screw over everyone, though. You have an inside source for the carrier-only vaccine? How's that gonna work?

    And in the meantime you're hiding indoors?

  18. #3943
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    Maybe you should have said yes to the tab Benny, you might not be such an unhappy asshole.

    On another note, after both jabs in the left arm I had minor bruising on the inside of my bicep opposite of where I was stuck. Anyone else? Pfizer.
    I have been in this State for 30 years and I am willing to admit that I am part of the problem.

  19. #3944
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    bunners dropped out fore
    the turn on
    tune in
    part
    let this be a lesson in doing it right kids
    #dontbeabunners
    "When the child was a child it waited patiently for the first snow and it still does"- Van "The Man" Morrison
    "I find I have already had my reward, in the doing of the thing" - Buzz Holmstrom
    "THIS IS WHAT WE DO"-AML -ski on in eternal peace
    "I have posted in here but haven't read it carefully with my trusty PoliAsshat antenna on."-DipshitDanno

  20. #3945
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    Quote Originally Posted by jono View Post
    I'm still waiting to hear how you plan to screw over everyone, though. You have an inside source for the carrier-only vaccine? How's that gonna work?

    And in the meantime you're hiding indoors?
    Nope. First flight, May 8. Life goes on.

    The world is perfect. Appreciate the details.

  21. #3946
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bunion 2020 View Post
    Maybe you should have said yes to the tab Benny, you might not be such an unhappy asshole.
    Sheeit, we had little orange barrels rolling around my neighborhood like candy.

    The world is perfect. Appreciate the details.

  22. #3947
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    So doing acid is like a vaccination? And you learn a second language. SFBish. Win win win situation!
    It's a war of the mind and we're armed to the teeth.

  23. #3948
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    To Vaccinate or Not---The Rat Flu Odyssey Continues

    Chinese Vaccination has been a dud in Chile. 50 % effective. Why am I not surprised.

    https://www.cnbc.com/2021/04/19/covi...e-rollout.html


    Sent from my iPhone using TGR Forums

  24. #3949
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    Quote Originally Posted by MTT View Post
    Then the government would be on the hook if something goes wrong. Right now it's maybe some weird clotting thing. There will be some other things. There always are. And really I don't think they really care that much. Seems it's the media and some regional governments that have gone nuts
    The government is already on the hook if a vaccine goes wrong under the National Vaccine Injury Compensation Program.

  25. #3950
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bunion 2020 View Post
    Maybe you should have said yes to the tab Benny, you might not be such an unhappy asshole.

    On another note, after both jabs in the left arm I had minor bruising on the inside of my bicep opposite of where I was stuck. Anyone else? Pfizer.
    No but both of my shoulders, in the joint itself away from the vaccine site were achy for about a day. In your case, could just be where the blood settled internally after the shot. In my case, thought it was kind of weird that both shoulders would ache equally.

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