To Vaccinate or Not---The Rat Flu Odyssey Continues

**bennymac** · 01-18-2021, 12:46 AM

Yeah it just was weird to be more sore than usual post ride. And to have tendonitis in my shoulder (opposite shoulder of the shot). Again these could easily be 100% unrelated to the vax and due to other factors.

**bigdude2468** · 01-18-2021, 08:02 AM

WI resident, very reassuring to know that the WI Society of Optometrist's convinced the state to vaccinate their members while nursing homes are still waiting. 80% of WI deaths are 65 and older, after front line medical workers 70+ year olds should have been next in line.

**riser4** · 01-18-2021, 08:28 AM

I miss spinning. I did it about 18 years ago. It bothers my back. I have a spin style bike in the basement that I use from time to time but can't do a full session. Maybe I'll go do a few minutes. I don't miss the corny music from the classes. I have a Pandora station that I trained to play only hardcore punk rock. I don't have the motivation to make some playlists from my library. What I really need is player that I can program to be more than just random, but not use a set playlist. Being able to apply logic for each spot in the playlist so it could randomly select from a reduced pool based on a set of criteria for that spot would be handy: length, genre, tempo, etc.

**buttahflake** · 01-18-2021, 08:29 AM

Originally Posted by riser3

I miss spinning. I did it about 18 years ago. It bothers my back. I have a spin style bike in the basement that I use from time to time but can't do a full session. Maybe I'll go do a few minutes. I don't miss the corny music from the classes. I have a Pandora station that I trained to play only hardcore punk rock. I don't have the motivation to make some playlists from my library. What I really need is player that I can program to be more than just random, but not use a set playlist. Being able to apply logic for each spot in the playlist so it could randomly select from a reduced pool based on a set of criteria for that spot would be handy: length, genre, tempo, etc.

Cool story bro
Take a fucking lap

**old goat** · 01-18-2021, 01:33 PM

Originally Posted by buttahflake

Cool story bro
Take a fucking lap

Have you been skipping your antidepressants again? You know what happens when you do that.

**MiddleOfNight** · 01-18-2021, 01:44 PM

A nurse told me yesterday vaccine can be up to 80% effective after the first shot - so someplace in the UK was going to space out the 1st and 2nd shots by 12 weeks instead of 4. Attempt to get more people the first shot sooner (as opposed to giving fewer people both shots sooner). I don't think the trials studied it like that, but it's kinda interesting. More people at 80% vs fewer at 95%? I don't maths, but if true I wonder if that's 'better' ..
Any of you med folks, have .02 about this?

I get my second shot Thursday - cannot come soon enough.

**old goat** · 01-18-2021, 01:52 PM

While there is significant benefit from the first shot the total number of people in the studies who got sick between the doses was too small in both groups to draw meaningful conclusions. More importantly, we don't know how long the protection from a single dose lasts. If the protection wears off before while we still have lots of people waiting for the first dose nothing has been accomplished.

**buttahflake** · 01-18-2021, 01:53 PM

Originally Posted by old goat

Have you been skipping your antidepressants again? You know what happens when you do that.

No, actually I don’t, what happens motherfucker?
Never been into going to the doctor and pharmacy’s and whatnot.
I will get the shot however and I’ve been wearing a mask since March

**MagnificentUnicorn** · 01-18-2021, 02:55 PM

Originally Posted by buttahflake

No, actually I don’t, what happens motherfucker?
Never been into going to the doctor and pharmacy’s and whatnot.
I will get the shot however and I’ve been wearing a mask since March

Have you changed your mask during that time?

Sent from my iPhone using TGR Forums

**Toadman** · 01-18-2021, 02:58 PM

My Dad got vaccinated with the Moderna vaccine last week. Pretty straightforward. Went to his GP, got stuck, hung out for 15 minutes just in case there was any allergic reaction. No issues since. Scheduled for number 2 shot some time in early February.

**jono** · 01-18-2021, 03:51 PM

Originally Posted by old goat

While there is significant benefit from the first shot the total number of people in the studies who got sick between the doses was too small in both groups to draw meaningful conclusions. More importantly, we don't know how long the protection from a single dose lasts. If the protection wears off before while we still have lots of people waiting for the first dose nothing has been accomplished.

The data is weak for two unknowns (does immunity fade? Does it keep increasing even without the second shot?) But from a logistical standpoint the numbers are clear: future doses should be supplied from ongoing production. Basic lean manufacturing: inventory is waste. If the health impacts are likely to be similar you don't hold back reserves. And definitely not half of prior production. There should be a ramp up in production rates, too, so maybe next week that gets more attention.

**gravitylover** · 01-18-2021, 04:08 PM

Originally Posted by old goat

Have you been skipping your antidepressants again? You know what happens when you do that.

LOL

**DJSapp** · 01-18-2021, 04:37 PM

Originally Posted by MiddleOfNight

A nurse told me yesterday vaccine can be up to 80% effective after the first shot - so someplace in the UK was going to space out the 1st and 2nd shots by 12 weeks instead of 4. Attempt to get more people the first shot sooner (as opposed to giving fewer people both shots sooner). I don't think the trials studied it like that, but it's kinda interesting. More people at 80% vs fewer at 95%? I don't maths, but if true I wonder if that's 'better' ..
Any of you med folks, have .02 about this?

I get my second shot Thursday - cannot come soon enough.

The studies weren't crafted that way, so there isn't any data. A UCSF Dr. was advocating for the same thing which was met with a solid 'No.' from the CDC. Lots of reasonable decision making behind this. The CDC only grants emergency use authorization to things that medicines that look like they're absolutely a sure thing. China has this issue, as their vaccine was only about 70% effective in trials, but in reality is only coming back around 50% effective in some areas. This damages public confidence in the CDC and the vaccine and increases reluctance to getting it. Now China dgaf about that and will force people to get shots, but that doesn't fly in the US. Maybe in the end they'll figure out that they can reduce the dosing, but what they have right now cleared some high hurdles and they're not lowering the standard.

**axebiker** · 01-19-2021, 12:04 AM

Our ski patrol was able to get us in line, so I’m up for #1 on Friday. I think they are pushing the Pfizer vac, but we’ll see. Looking forward to getting it done with though.

**old goat** · 01-19-2021, 12:10 AM

Originally Posted by jono

The data is weak for two unknowns (does immunity fade? Does it keep increasing even without the second shot?) But from a logistical standpoint the numbers are clear: future doses should be supplied from ongoing production. Basic lean manufacturing: inventory is waste. If the health impacts are likely to be similar you don't hold back reserves. And definitely not half of prior production. There should be a ramp up in production rates, too, so maybe next week that gets more attention.

Yeah, I'm not suggesting holding second doses in reserve, but without data it doesn't seem wise to delay them for an extended period. I doubt a short delay would be a problem medically. The main problem with a short delay is logistical--unless and until there is a massive vaccination infrastructure it seems like vaccination is mostly being done by appointment--so you have an appt made at the time of the first shot for your second dose but your site doesn't have vaccine when it's time and the next appt is another month out or more. In order for that not to be a problem we need the capacity to do drop in vaccination without 12 hour waits.

**MakersTeleMark** · 01-19-2021, 01:05 AM

We have had outstanding success here:

To date, the county has received approximately 5,300 allotments of the first dose of vaccine. This week’s shipment didn’t include any first doses, but it did include 1,900 second doses.

Harmon noted there is still enough first dose vaccine in the local system to continue clinics this week.

“We still hope that this week, 1,000 to 1,200 Eagle Country residents will receive their first dose,” he noted. But with no new first dose vaccine sent Jan. 13, vaccination clinics are not scheduling appointments for next week.

**whipski** · 01-19-2021, 06:55 AM

recently isolated after a colleague went + covid, had received the moderna vaccine about a month prior

**TNKen** · 01-19-2021, 07:39 AM

Originally Posted by axebiker

Our ski patrol was able to get us in line, so I’m up for #1 on Friday. I think they are pushing the Pfizer vac, but we’ll see. Looking forward to getting it done with though.

Our crew started getting it yesterday.

Over the MLK weekend, we had a ton of folks come through patrol. At one point they were saying we were not first responders. Glad they finally moved us up.

**HankScorpio** · 01-19-2021, 07:53 AM

Staff at our school who are working face to face with kids starting get vaccinated with the Moderna shots. Kind of unexpected considering the Gov has said nothing about teachers getting inoculated. I'm guessing the hospital has extras they need to use.

**old goat** · 01-19-2021, 08:54 AM

There's one lot of Moderna in CA that has had more allergic reactions than expected. Sites are being told to not use the lot (330K doses originally) pending vaccination. That should really help CA catch up to other states in getting people vaccinated.
https://www.sacbee.com/news/coronavi...ainstage_card5

**alpinevibes** · 01-19-2021, 09:35 AM

Despite WA state sucking (34% of available doses have been used; 34th in state rankings...), with Inslee announcing the inclusion of 65+ for vaccines now, my 66yo parents were able to sign up and get pharmacy slots for Feb 3rd. Pretty psyched on that!

**Falcon3** · 01-19-2021, 11:39 AM

Originally Posted by alpinevibes

Despite WA state sucking (34% of available doses have been used; 34th in state rankings...), with Inslee announcing the inclusion of 65+ for vaccines now, my 66yo parents were able to sign up and get pharmacy slots for Feb 3rd. Pretty psyched on that!

I’m glad to see Inslee tap Starbucks and Microsoft logistics talent to help with distribution. That’s how public-private partnership is supposed to work. Hopefully it goes well.

**old goat** · 01-19-2021, 04:35 PM

Novavax is having trouble recruiting and retaining over 65's in it's Phase 3 trial. People want the approved vaccines.
Unfortunately there are no trial sites in California. I bet they could still get people here.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/busin...inical-trials/

**Bronco** · 01-19-2021, 04:57 PM

Originally Posted by whipski

recently isolated after a colleague went + covid, had received the moderna vaccine about a month prior

Come again? Your colleague was vaccinated a month ago and now tests positive for Covid???? I guess they're not 100% effective but I'm a little surprised (and concerned) to hear that.

**Falcon3** · 01-19-2021, 05:13 PM

Originally Posted by Bronco

Come again? Your colleague was vaccinated a month ago and now tests positive for Covid???? I guess they're not 100% effective but I'm a little surprised (and concerned) to hear that.

After the second dose of either, it’s about 95% effective. But that’s with vaccine effectiveness math, which isn’t regular math. So it’s still very possible for vaccinated folks to come down with it. Here’s a good article that’s probably in the other thread.

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/11/20/h...effective.html