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  1. #13926
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    https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019...M:gen:PTN:FY21

    "CDC now recommends that people aged 65 years and older, residents in long-term care settings, and people aged 50–64 years with underlying medical conditions should receive a booster shot of Pfizer-BioNTech’s COVID-19 Vaccine at least 6 months after completing their Pfizer-BioNTech primary series. Other groups may receive a booster shot based on their individual risk and benefit. "

    " What We Are Still Learning
    How well the vaccines protect people with weakened immune systems, including people who take medicines that suppress the immune system
    How long COVID-19 vaccines protect people
    How many people have to be vaccinated against COVID-19 before the population can be considered protected (population immunity)
    How effective the vaccines are against new variants of the virus that causes COVID-19 "
    - - - - -

    MUnicorn's post is thoughtful and well-reasoned. it could go further -

    If one reads the CDC's official Release ( cited and quoted above ), I believe the agency's position is Clear, and clearly stated ;
    how the vote of an 'advisory committee' is even news kind of mystifies me ( an 'advisory committee' is not a decision-making body ( I question an advisory committee that would even presume to present advice in the form of a 'vote' - And If that actually occurred...

    it did not -

    https://nymag.com/intelligencer/2021...-boosters.html

    " As expected, the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention backed a booster shot of the Pfizer COVID-19 vaccine for people 65 and older, long-term-care-facility residents, and adults with medical problems shortly after the agency’s Advisory Committee on Immunization Practices recommended the same. But the CDC overruled the panel on another issue, opting to recommend a third dose for adults working in institutional settings who are at elevated risk because they live in a setting or work in an occupation that exposes them to COVID-19.

    CDC Director Rochelle Walensky signed off on most of the ACIP’s recommendations, but in a rare break from the agency’s advisory panel, deviated on the fourth and final one. She said people should be offered boosters if they are between the ages of 18 and 64 and are at an elevated risk for exposure to COVID-19, such as health-care workers, teachers, grocery workers, and those in homeless shelters or prisons.

    "As CDC Director, it is my job to recognize where our actions can have the greatest impact,” Walensky said in a statement late Thursday. “At CDC, we are tasked with analyzing complex, often imperfect data to make concrete recommendations that optimize health. In a pandemic, even with uncertainty, we must take actions that we anticipate will do the greatest good.” She added that a booster for those in at-risk work and living environments aligns with the Food and Drug Administration’s booster authorization earlier this week.

    So far, recommendations cover only people who received their second Pfizer shot at least six months earlier. The CDC advisory panel expressed concern over the millions of Americans who received Moderna or Johnson & Johnson shots early in the vaccine rollout; at the moment, agencies still haven’t considered these for booster authorization and they discourage mix-and-matching vaccine brands. "
    - - - - -

    The CDC's position seems reasoned and reasonable to me :

    those over 65, And those with risk factors, including elevated risk of exposure,

    who have been vaccinated with Pfizer.


    the need for the cynics to misrepresent this decision. . . ( and the hysteria about 'DATA' )

    no.

    This is a matter of Public Health Policy -
    it is the Responsibility of the Director to determine Policy moving forward.

    That's all this is.

    but those who are determined to pursue the argument, ,,, ( I see it coming, and I am not going to put it into words in My post ).

    for those vaccinated with Pfizer, over 65 years, And those at risk(,) increased including risk of exposure to covid, boosters are recommended.

    That is all.

    with due respect. tj

  2. #13927
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    I got a third dose of Moderna. Seems there is some conflicting information. I suspect it has something to do with billing the government and hospital profit. Especially since it was Sutter Palo Alto health.

  3. #13928
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    Quote Originally Posted by MagnificentUnicorn View Post
    Yeah I didnít see any booster mandate


    Sent from my iPhone using TGR Forums
    You're right.... so far. Not here yet, but the precedent is already being set in a few other countries that have set expiration dates on vaccination status, in anticipation of requiring boosters to stay current. That conversation is being had here I assure you.

    Every step of the way, when some of us see something on the horizon, many here are like "Naaah. That won't happen. Don't be such a conspiracy theorist." And then sure enough, that very thing happens. One after another.

    So do we have booster requirements yet? No. But I have zero confidence it won't be required later on. Give it a year. We'll be debating it all over again. And round and round this thread goes.

    Sent from my Pixel 3 using TGR Forums mobile app

  4. #13929
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    Quote Originally Posted by m55078 View Post
    everyone should first think about their health condition before making such a decision
    And bots should STFU
    "fuck off you asshat gaper shit for brains fucktard wanker." - Jesus Christ
    "She was tossing her bean salad with the vigor of a Drunken Pop princess so I walked out of the corner and said.... "need a hand?"" - Odin
    "I'd eat a bag of Dicks and wash it down with a Coke any day." - iceman

  5. #13930
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    Quote Originally Posted by MontuckyFried View Post
    You're right.... so far. Not here yet, but the precedent is already being set in a few other countries that have set expiration dates on vaccination status, in anticipation of requiring boosters to stay current. That conversation is being had here I assure you.

    Every step of the way, when some of us see something on the horizon, many here are like "Naaah. That won't happen. Don't be such a conspiracy theorist." And then sure enough, that very thing happens. One after another.

    So do we have booster requirements yet? No. But I have zero confidence it won't be required later on. Give it a year. We'll be debating it all over again. And round and round this thread goes.

    Sent from my Pixel 3 using TGR Forums mobile app
    you remember when vaccine passports were just a conspiracy theory?? Pepperidge farms remembers.

  6. #13931
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    Boosting healthy folks or people mild comorbidities is not going to stop the epidemic. At least 25% of adults are still completely unvaccinated and many of them are clustered together in communities bound by anti-vax beliefs — making those areas a potential reservoir for future outbreaks.

  7. #13932
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    Quote Originally Posted by Danno View Post
    And bots should STFU
    The bots are an improvement IMO.

  8. #13933
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    Quote Originally Posted by m55078 View Post
    everyone should first think about their health condition before making such a decision
    Sage advice


    Sent from my iPhone using TGR Forums

  9. #13934
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    To Vaccinate or Not---The Rat Flu Odyssey Continues

    Quote Originally Posted by MontuckyFried View Post
    You're right.... so far. Not here yet, but the precedent is already being set in a few other countries that have set expiration dates on vaccination status, in anticipation of requiring boosters to stay current. That conversation is being had here I assure you.

    Every step of the way, when some of us see something on the horizon, many here are like "Naaah. That won't happen. Don't be such a conspiracy theorist." And then sure enough, that very thing happens. One after another.

    So do we have booster requirements yet? No. But I have zero confidence it won't be required later on. Give it a year. We'll be debating it all over again. And round and round this thread goes.

    Sent from my Pixel 3 using TGR Forums mobile app
    I donít see a problem with booster requirements, my immunization record is currently up to date for boosters that Iím already required to have. Iíll take a booster at work when they make it available. I wonít jump the line. I would like to protect myself, my loved ones and the patients as much as I can. Thereís really no downside.

    I donít think vaccine passports were ever a conspiracy theory, it was an idea being discussed so that certain non essential businesses could continue to operate during this ongoing pandemic. Itís a great tool to allow safer access and identify the people who are concerned and willing to do their part for the greater good. I have to wonder if the same folks doing all the hand wringing about vaccines and passports would have bitched about rationing during WWII. Sacrifice for the greater good and all that patriotic stuff. ?

    Sent from my iPhone using TGR Forums

  10. #13935
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    Quote Originally Posted by Salvelinusconfluentus View Post
    I guess about 30 people are planning on quitting at my work if they have to get vaccines.

    Hopefully they are all above me in seniority.
    Look at the bright side. You move up if they quit or die.
    Mrs. Dougw- "I can see how one of your relatives could have been killed by an angry mob."

    Quote Originally Posted by ill-advised strategy View Post
    dougW, you motherfucking dirty son of a bitch.

  11. #13936
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    Always look on the bright side of death...

  12. #13937
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    Ok with mandates and vax passports what is that going to do overall vax rate? Once you have nothing else to do what is the plan? Do you just let it go to a moderate to slow burn to go through the remaining part of the pop that is hard core. W+
    hat 20% in US and maybe 10% in Canada? It won't be about protecting lives but controlling the rate so health care system is not over loaded. Maybe even have covid parties when rates are too low?
    Mrs. Dougw- "I can see how one of your relatives could have been killed by an angry mob."

    Quote Originally Posted by ill-advised strategy View Post
    dougW, you motherfucking dirty son of a bitch.

  13. #13938
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    https://www.cbc.ca/news/health/covid...xers-1.6188806

    Reaserchers screw up the math and are now withdrawing the paper
    Lee Lau - xxx-er is the laziest Asian canuck I know

  14. #13939
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    Quote Originally Posted by DougW View Post
    Ok with mandates and vax passports what is that going to do overall vax rate? Once you have nothing else to do what is the plan? Do you just let it go to a moderate to slow burn to go through the remaining part of the pop that is hard core. W+
    hat 20% in US and maybe 10% in Canada? It won't be about protecting lives but controlling the rate so health care system is not over loaded. Maybe even have covid parties when rates are too low?
    Iíd argue this would not be different than what is currently happening.

  15. #13940
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    Quote Originally Posted by MultiVerse View Post
    Boosting healthy folks or people mild comorbidities is not going to stop the epidemic. At least 25% of adults are still completely unvaccinated and many of them are clustered together in communities bound by anti-vax beliefs — making those areas a potential reservoir for future outbreaks.
    And future variants.


    Experts say the number of unvaccinated people in the United States is a key reason coronavirus variants are emerging.
    They explain that the virus replicates quicker in unvaccinated people, increasing the chance of mutations.
    They’re concerned that new COVID-19 cases will continue to rise as variants spread and people still refuse to get vaccinated.

  16. #13941
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    Quote Originally Posted by ill-advised strategy View Post
    All this stuff is just too much self esteem.

    Youíll never see me holding a sign about how my life matters. not taking shots because my opinion is better than the cdc. Trying to make some militia to take over the government. Organizing political movements entirely around me me me Iím important, around a series of ďI wannaĒ and ďI donít wannaĒ personal feelings about life.

    Such fucking pussies. Fucking pussies. Fuck you! Get your shots, do your part, donít be a dick. You donít matter, your opinions arenít important, we all have to do things we donít wannaÖdeal with it you god damn diaper babies.
    True AF

  17. #13942
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    Delta's the main variant we've been dealing with this summer. As in 99% of hospitalizations have been due to it. Delta's out of India.

    Sent from my Pixel 3 using TGR Forums mobile app

  18. #13943
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    Quote Originally Posted by MontuckyFried View Post
    Delta's the main variant we've been dealing with this summer. As in 99% of hospitalizations have been due to it. Delta's out of India.
    So you're saying our homegrown variants will inherit that accent they banned from the Simpson's? Checks out.

  19. #13944
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    "fuck off you asshat gaper shit for brains fucktard wanker." - Jesus Christ
    "She was tossing her bean salad with the vigor of a Drunken Pop princess so I walked out of the corner and said.... "need a hand?"" - Odin
    "I'd eat a bag of Dicks and wash it down with a Coke any day." - iceman

  20. #13945
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    Quote Originally Posted by Summit View Post
    I'm hoping we have some studies underway that give a measurement of reliability of seropositivity, or a titer, as a measure of protection. Seems to me that most of our data is based on PCR+ but if you have the right Ab assay and your test is to determine protection against severe illness and death then antibody based testing should lean toward lower sensitivity and higher specificity because if you have measurable Ab shouldn't there be good B/T response? But we need data and I don't see why we don't have that yet. I'd think that data probably is already in some datasets if it could be pulled out.
    There's been a lot of research on the humoral response focusing on the B cell along with the CD4+ and CD8+ T cell responses and how it all fits together with SARS-CoV-2-specific antibodies (Abs) (IgG, IgM, IgA) recognizing the receptor-binding domain. As you can imagine it gets pretty complicated and quickly falls into MoFo's domain.

    The main thing is there's a lot more to it than antibody levels and viral loads. Which means you'd have to biopsy lymph nodes to fully determine the B & T response. There are studies where they've done that and so far this is what it looks like ranked / clustered in terms of inducing robust memory B & T cell secondary responses:

    • 1 dose + prior COVID provides the most robust immunity
    • Naive 2 doses with a long 16 week interval between is almost as good

    • Prior Severe Covid
    • Naive 2 doses given over a short interval ← could be an argument for +1 boost

    • Prior Mild Covid

  21. #13946
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    Quote Originally Posted by highangle View Post
    And future variants.
    Yep. And with Delta's viral fitness dominating all other strains the next variant of concern will likely emerge as a sub-lineage from within Delta.

  22. #13947
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    Quote Originally Posted by DougW View Post
    Ok with mandates and vax passports what is that going to do overall vax rate? Once you have nothing else to do what is the plan?
    Think about what you just wrote there. Obviously, if there is nothing else to do there is nothing else to do. Fortunately we are nowhere near the point of having nothing left to do. The US is vaccinating nearly 700K people per day. As time goes on being unvaccinated will become increasingly inconvenient and most hard core antivaxers will quietly get the shots. The goal was, is, and will be protecting lives, protecting the health care system, and preventing the spread of the virus--all of the above. I don't know if you're serious about Covid parties--but people who get covid at covid parties are going to die, clog up the health care system, and spread the virus--exactly the opposite of what the goal is. (I'm old enough to remember when girls were deliberately exposed to rubella but that's a special case. At a time when most people eventually got rubella and because reinfection was unheard of, it made sense for girls to get rubella before they had a chance to get pregnant, because of the devastating effects of rubella on the fetus.)

    BTW, Sacramento teachers union has come out in favor of a requirement being considered by the school board to mandate vaccination for all students--based on age and FDA approval for under 12's of course.

  23. #13948
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    Quote Originally Posted by mtuhockey33 View Post
    you remember when vaccine passports were just a conspiracy theory?? Pepperidge farms remembers.
    When I had to show vaccination records to be a lifeguard in 1994, was that tyranny? Or just now, with this one?

  24. #13949
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    Quote Originally Posted by jono View Post
    Always look on the bright side of death...
    Worms gotta eat!

  25. #13950
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    Quote Originally Posted by Danno View Post
    Damn that's cold.

    Locally, we track age adjusted rates of infection, hospitalizations, and deaths by vaccination status. Our county is by far the largest in state by population at 2.4 million but has 2nd lowest infection rate by County. By zip code, the lowest infection rates are well correlated with vaccine uptake, in both vaxxed and unvaxxed. County wide we are 30cases/100,000 but that breaks out to 10/100k in vaxxed and 78/100k in non vaxxed. In the highest vaxxed zips its 4/100K for vaxxed and 10/100k in nonvaxxed. Hyperlocal herd immunity already exists here.

    What this shows for you skeptics is how a vaccine works to limit transmission once enough of the population is immunized. It also shows that even with 99.4% of infections now Delta across the US, and despite breakthrough cases, transmission does not occur in vaxxed populations any where near the same level as unvaxxed.

    All this fret about boosters but the reality is we could snuff this out country wide if enough people were willing to do their part.

    Most of the current modeling is suggesting this current Delta may be the last wave, but with regional bobbles thru March 2022. Then we get to less than 9k infections/day and below ~100/deaths a day nation wide.

    Worldwide my take is it will be 2024 before its under control enough to be a minor health threat more akin to influenza.
    Move upside and let the man go through...

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