To Vaccinate or Not---The Rat Flu Odyssey Continues

[jono]

China Calls on ‘Little Inoculated Warriors’

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/12/06/b...smid=url-share

China has embarked on an ambitious campaign that it says will give the country better protection against Covid-19: full inoculation of 160 million of its youngest citizens by the end of the year.

In the first two weeks of the effort, which began in late October, 84 million boys and girls between the ages of 3 and 11, about half of the eligible population, received the first of two shots.

By contrast, in the United States, 2.6 million children between ages 5 and 11, or about 10 percent of the eligible population, received one dose over roughly the same time period.

The campaign faces significant obstacles, including parental reluctance in a country with a checkered history of safety on children’s vaccines. The government insists that child inoculations are voluntary, but parents have described coming under pressure to get their children vaccinated.

Though Chinese vaccines are generally considered safe, the country also has a history of administering spoiled shots and guarding any information about negative incidents.

China is the world’s last zero-Covid holdout, and officials have shown no willingness to change course. Cities of millions of people continue to be locked down during minor outbreaks; tourist sites like Shanghai Disneyland have been shut down to carry out on-the-spot testing. People who lie about infections, hide symptoms or try to escape quarantine do so under threat of prison.

The ruling Communist Party has pointed to the country’s low Covid-19 numbers — fewer than 5,000 people have died — as evidence that China’s authoritarian model is superior to the rest of the world, even as its borders remain closed and ordinary citizens find their personal freedom severely restricted during outbreaks.

This is exhibit A for all the dumbasses who think American vaccine hesitancy is not a geopolitical threat. D0D is at the front of the line today, but it's a long line.

But he makes a good point: no one has the right to coerce another in order to make themselves feel safer. Goes the same for forcing or prohibiting either an action or inaction. A rational mind would then check in with the facts and find out who is hazarding whom. Irrational ones just say "my/his/her/every body, MY choice."

[skaredshtles]

Like weekend lift lines, trams and gondolas?

I would consider trams and gondolas enclosed - so yeah.

Lift lines? *I* personally would not have the expectation that others would be masked in lift lines...

[Peruvian]

I don't know if this has been shared yet, but I found it interesting.

[LongShortLong]

I would consider trams and gondolas enclosed - so yeah.

Lift lines? *I* personally would not have the expectation that others would be masked in lift lines...

MIT and Alta collaborated on a study last year that concluded liftlines required masks to meet their safety threshold. That was in the days of low case rates and no vaccination. IIRC, they used a case rate of 5/100k/day. US is currently at 6 times that, and not everyone is vaccinated, so the situation is slightly worse this year than modeled in the study.

[SumJongGuy]

I'd say at this point that *any* expectation that folks wear masks outdoors is fairly unreasonable, unless the outdoor activity is PACKED with humans in very close proximity.

Ya but 90% of people weren't wearing them INDOORS either.. rental shop lines and counters filling out forms. fitting boots, etc cough cough..

[skaredshtles]

Ya but 90% of people weren't wearing them INDOORS either.. rental shop lines and counters filling out forms. fitting boots, etc cough cough..

I ain't goin' indoors with a bunch of unmasked morans. I'll just piss in the woods, thank you very much.

[huckbucket]

I don't know if this has been shared yet, but I found it interesting.

Here's the take away in case anyone didn't watch.

"Everybody has a plan until they get punched in the mouth."

[summit]

MIT and Alta collaborated on a study last year that concluded liftlines required masks to meet their safety threshold. That was in the days of low case rates and no vaccination. IIRC, they used a case rate of 5/100k/day. US is currently at 6 times that, and not everyone is vaccinated, so the situation is slightly worse this year than modeled in the study.

I'm not sure how much I liked their modeling, and most skiers were wearing single layer cloth masks (buffs) anyway so almost useless.

[MagnificentUnicorn]

The Libertarian adage is: Your right to swing your arm ends before my nose.

So, society has always reasonably placed some requirements on behavior to be part of a free society.

Even the Founding Fathers understood the need for public health measures such as quarantine and immunization (variolation), and the right of society to command such things from unwilling members.

Do you have the right to be drunk? Yes. In Public? If you do not disturb others. While driving? That is hazarding others.

I equate choosing to be unvaccinated with being drunk while driving. Yea you might make it home from the bar without hitting anyone. Or you might cause a multicar pileup. You are hazarding others, society, and yourself much more than if sober and society has decided to restrict your liberty to behave in such a manner so that they can be free and safe from such unjustifiable danger.

No man is an island when it comes to communicable disease.

Funny, I was going to post a drunk driving analogy before I read your post. DOD is just that, dumb.


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[MagnificentUnicorn]

Bottom line, I don't think anyone should be coerced or forced to inject something into their body so they can participate in 'society' or make you feel 'safe'.

This tgr lib mob reminds me of the kangaroo court in Idiocracy. Fortunately you're a relatively small group.

I'll let you all get back to your expert level circle jerk.

No one is being forced to inject anything. They have a choice and there are consequences for that choice. Just like most things in life.


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[2FUNKY]

Jfc this thread would be a great case study for a Psychologist. The irrational fear is both intriguing and alarming at the same time. Carry on.

[jono]

I'm not sure how much I liked their modeling, and most skiers were wearing single layer cloth masks (buffs) anyway so almost useless.

Do you have some specific concerns you can highlight about the modeling?

I'm not afraid of single layer buffs. Gapers gonna gape and wonder why they always have to mess with them, but if they're worn as intended (pulled over the head with the front folded down over the chin) they're two layers in front of nose and mouth and that's been shown to be 90% effective. Not to mention comfortable and easy to breathe through.

Even one layer does a lot for slowing your breath horizontally, and if it rises before it reaches anyone that ought to work pretty well in the lift line.

[dunfree]

Jfc this thread would be a great case study for a Psychologist. The irrational fear is both intriguing and alarming at the same time. Carry on.

Like clockwork a “rationalist” trolls in.

but then that’s the politics of it now. The idiots want to pretend none of this was necessary; utterly ignoring data that doesn’t fit their narrative

[muted reborn]

Jfc this thread would be a great case study for a Psychologist. The irrational fear is both intriguing and alarming at the same time. Carry on.

No it wouldn't, nothing here would be surprising to a Psychologist. And it's all worthless without the context of knowing who is posting.

[The AD]

I haven't really seen a lot of "irrational fear" in this thread. I've seen an overwhelming desire to put this pandemic in the rearview through common sense measures. Not really so much fear.

[Buzzworthy]

Jfc this thread would be a great case study for a Psychologist. The irrational fear is both intriguing and alarming at the same time. Carry on.

My wife is one.
But no way in hell is she going to read any of this loony bin.

[alias_rice]

Jfc this thread would be a great case study for a Psychologist. The irrational fear is both intriguing and alarming at the same time. Carry on.

Yeah, I don’t really get all of the fear 2 years into it with widespread availability of multiple vaccines that do pretty damn good job. What are the chances of a fully vaccinated person having serious problems? Basically zero. Maybe I’m in the minority but I don’t really know anyone who is worried about Covid anymore.

[GiBo]

MagnificentUnicorn and others with the medical field background. Wondering about comments for either of the 2 mRNA US vaccines boost after the single J&J back in the spring and if there really are any notable reasons to get one over the other or just schedule at a site and take what they have available.

Thinking most may have a day after the shot to set aside with possible reaction like headache, body pains, etc. so would like to do that in the next week or so and probably go for a Friday or weekend time slot.

Google shows a WSJ article behind paywall and then some British Med articles as the top results with Astrazeneca discussions.

Moderna mRNA or Pfizer mRNA is what I am leaning toward over another J&J (which I would have maybe done shortly after the first shot if it was not set up at first as a one and done.)

I got the J&J in March. Had a break though Covid infection in summer. Got Moderna booster this morning. Tiny bit of soreness, but fine. It's a tiny shot.

My buddy had the same exact scenario as above. He got Moderna a couple week ago. Zero side effects.

Go for the Moderna.

[bennymac]

The fact that you guys track post counts like it is important is strange and pathetic. It’s actually quite sad that your life revolves around an Internet forum. Carry on.

Jfc this thread would be a great case study for a Psychologist. The irrational fear is both intriguing and alarming at the same time. Carry on.

Interesting post style.

[SumJongGuy]

The right to walk around public spaces unvaxxed is similar to the right to smoke cigarettes in those same public spaces.. Spewing potential poison causes unnecessary risk to others.

If you can't go there without posing that risk, you can't go there at all.. If I was so addicted to smoking that I couldn't work without smoking (and many were in the 1970s and 80s) I'd have to find another job once smoking in those places was deemed too risky to others.. Same situation with vax mandates..

[bodywhomper]

Ski hills: I don’t see much opportunity for being infected while riding a chair that’s fully open. Definitely could be possible in a crowded box.

Yeah, I don’t really get all of the fear 2 years into it with widespread availability of multiple vaccines that do pretty damn good job. What are the chances of a fully vaccinated person having serious problems? Basically zero. Maybe I’m in the minority but I don’t really know anyone who is worried about Covid anymore.

You must live somewhere with a high vax/boosted rate, know nobody that could be immunocompromised, not know any unvaxed kids. So the possibility of you being infected is low, and if you’re infected, the possibility of you infecting others and making them seriously sick is very low.

My county, Nevada county, just reported 93 new cases today. Last week, was 161. Population 100k. Ain’t Michigan, but not great.

[Buzzworthy]

Moderna booster at 2:30 today. Didn’t even feel the shot this time, I was nice and relaxed on a few bong rips. Guess I’ll find out in the middle of the night if it’s going to knock me for a loop like #2 Moderna did.

[Smoova]

Interesting post style.

I laughed.

[SumJongGuy]

Interesting post style.

I laughed.

[topwater]

I ain't goin' indoors with a bunch of unmasked morans. I'll just piss in the woods, thank you very much.

I did that last season and got shit from an employee at Canyons. I had to walk under a rope when it was low tide and walk on dirt to a tree and the little prick still took my pass info and gave me a warning about going out of bounds.