To Vaccinate or Not---The Rat Flu Odyssey Continues

[The AD]

And good for you. I did the same. What irks me is that some officials have essentially been encouraging people to cheat and put their own integrity on the line rather than have the state do the right thing and open up the criteria where it made sense to do so. The other side of that is that you're not jumping the line if there is no line so what's the harm? Other than to your own moral integrity, that is....

And it's abundantly clear that in a good part of the state the statement that "there is no line" is true, but not so sure that's the case in Seattle.

Join the "Seattle Vaccine Hunters" Facebook page if you havent already. They are great about immediate info on left over doses if you can jump in your car pretty quickly.

Didn't know about this. I'll check it out.

[GoldMember]

I'm not sure that keeping it local is necessarily the answer or that local authorities are any better qualified to deal with this than the state, or that they wouldn't almost certainly have fucked it up even worse and led to even more inequalities.

If the latitude was for adjusting criteria based on demand, I'm not sure how they could have really fucked it up. As for the concern over inequality, that would exist regardless of the criteria. The point, though is to get shots in arms as quickly as possible and that's not what's happening in areas outside Seattle, specifically the east side of the state.

[PNWbrit]

If the latitude was for adjusting criteria based on demand, I'm not sure how they could have really fucked it up. As for the concern over inequality, that would exist regardless of the criteria. The point, though is to get shots in arms as quickly as possible and that's not what's happening in areas outside Seattle, specifically the east side of the state.

See my edit and this map. https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/...gtype=Homepage

[GoldMember]

And it's abundantly clear that in a good part of the state the statement that "there is no line" is true, but not so sure that's the case in Seattle.

I recognize it's not true in Seattle and that's what's driven the reluctance to open it up earlier. I think the relaxation on criteria has been solely based on what has been happening in Seattle. So long as demand has been high there, the rest of the state has been restricted where it could have been relaxed earlier, based on the level of demand.

ETA: In looking at the map PNW posted, the percentages of King versus Spokane County are very similar. That gives credence to the equity argument. However, even if it gave the appearance of not being equitable if smaller counties in the state were at higher percentages, at least there'd be more people vaxxed which is kind of the goal, I would think.

[jono]

If the latitude was for adjusting criteria based on demand, I'm not sure how they could have really fucked it up. As for the concern over inequality, that would exist regardless of the criteria. The point, though is to get shots in arms as quickly as possible and that's not what's happening in areas outside Seattle, specifically the east side of the state.

+1. Of all the cases where people try to elevate equality to the detriment of everyone, this might be the most egregious. FFS. Immunity protects everyone and doses in freezers don't.

This hand wringing cluster is like watching people refuse to zipper merge.

[The AD]

I recognize it's not true in Seattle and that's what's driven the reluctance to open it up earlier. I think the relaxation on criteria has been solely based on what has been happening in Seattle. So long as demand has been high there, the rest of the state has been restricted where it could have been relaxed earlier, based on the level of demand.

ETA: In looking at the map PNW posted, the percentages of King versus Spokane County are very similar. That gives credence to the equity argument. However, even if it gave the appearance of not being equitable if smaller counties in the state were at higher percentages, at least there'd be more people vaxxed which is kind of the goal, I would think.

I agree. It would make more sense to at least handle this at the county level. King County and Pend Oreille County don't have much in common.

[GoldMember]

I agree. It would make more sense to at least handle this at the county level. King County and Pend Oreille County don't have much in common.

Precisely.

[PNWbrit]

ETA: In looking at the map PNW posted, the percentages of King versus Spokane County are very similar. That gives credence to the equity argument. However, even if it gave the appearance of not being equitable if smaller counties in the state were at higher percentages, at least there'd be more people vaxxed which is kind of the goal, I would think.

If some counties, like WW are so far ahead of the game and have untaken vaccines then those should be moved to counties that need them to get their #s up... not open up county restrictions to any takers. That's a state level function.

[Toadman]

I'm not sure that keeping it local is necessarily the answer or that local authorities are any better qualified to deal with this than the state, or that they wouldn't almost certainly have fucked it up even worse and led to even more inequalities.

Edit: it looks like WW county has 26% of total population vaccinated - if they have that many untaken doses they should be moved to counties that haven't got that high a figure. Like Franklin that only has 12% or Pierce at 18%.

I thought this was a major complaint at the start of vaccinations. Or pre-planning stage before vaccine roll outs that there was a bunch of confusion at the local levels? Maybe it was just bad communication and lack of understanding at the Federal level how to roll things out?

[PNWbrit]

...Or pre-planning stage before vaccine roll outs... Maybe it was just bad communication and lack of understanding at the Federal level how to roll things out?

There can be absolutely no question about that.

[GoldMember]

If some counties, like WW are so far ahead of the game and have untaken vaccines then those should be moved to counties that need them to get their #s up... not open up county restrictions to any takers. That's a state level function.

Perhaps but the State apparently hasn't done that so that could be pointed at as a failure point as well. There are still open appointments in WW two weeks later and it's apparently been like that for quite awhile. On the other hand, if there are limited appointments available in Seattle, the limits are either due to lack of vaccines (easily remedied by courier vehicles from counties with too many) or lack of facilities to vaccinate. I don't know the root cause but there's obviously an imbalance in the system and no apparent effort to balance it to this point. It may all be moot in another few days when it opens up to all adults but even at that, getting an appointment in Seattle will be much more difficult than other areas in the state and there will very likely be some cross-state traffic to get to an open slot somewhere by many with the means (time, gas money, and a car) to do so.

[PNWbrit]

Perhaps but the State apparently hasn't done that so that could be pointed at as a failure point as well. There are still open appointments in WW two weeks later and it's apparently been like that for quite awhile. On the other hand, if there are limited appointments available in Seattle, the limits are either due to lack of vaccines (easily remedied by courier vehicles from counties with too many) or lack of facilities to vaccinate. I don't know the root cause but there's obviously an imbalance in the system and no apparent effort to balance it to this point. It may all be moot in another few days when it opens up to all adults but even at that, getting an appointment in Seattle will be much more difficult than other areas in the state and there will very likely be some cross-state traffic to get to an open slot somewhere by many with the means (time, gas money, and a car) to do so.

Exactly.

[jono]

Did WA not allocate doses based on population in the first place?

Whether they did or not, driving vaccines around is a waste of time. Move eligibility forward where necessary and (if necessary) make up differences with future shipments.

[GoldMember]

Did WA not allocate doses based on population in the first place?

Whether they did or not, driving vaccines around is a waste of time. Move eligibility forward where necessary and (if necessary) make up differences with future shipments.

Thank you for making my point.

[The AD]

Did WA not allocate doses based on population in the first place?

I'm sure they did, but there are probably also a lot more people choosing not to get vaccinated in eastern WA vs. western.

[jono]

I'm sure they did, but there are probably also a lot more people choosing not to get vaccinated in eastern WA vs. western.

Probably, but it doesn't matter. The end goal of herd immunity may be reached with different allocations in different places. In the long run you gotta get it into a big chunk of the population and if the order is wrong the whole population still benefits from speed and still suffers higher risk for longer by slowing it down.

[Tips^Up]

*I don't have any idea what I'm talking about.

My pregnant wife and I were signed up for the Janssen (J&J) vaccine tomorrow. I cancelled my appointment.

Her doc initially said to wait, as pregnant women were excluded from trials. At her most recent appointment, the doc said the single jab J&J would be good for her (preferred over the mRNA Moderna/Pfizer).

Last week's news that Emergent was fucking up vaccines and have a history of running a dirty lab makes me think we should wait a bit, let the new batches with greater oversight work into the system. Does anyone have an educated guess when that would be? 1 week, 1 month, 6 months?

I am somewhat hesitant to get it at all. Healthy guy in mid-30s, no pre-existing conditions, we (wife, ~1 year old baby at the time) survived it about 350 days ago. It wasn't great but never scary or terrible for any of us 3; came on like a hangover, lasted for a week as a cold and fever, and another week or 2 of persistent coughing. No idea if antibodies are still present or not. We're low risk for hospitalization or death, which is what the vaccine promises to prevent. And, after the vaccine, they recommend wearing a mask, social distancing, wash your hands (exactly what we're doing now).

All 3 of us are up to date on all vaccines (not anti-vaxxers), but I feel like there is no harm in my family waiting a bit to see if any long term side effects present themselves? Or waiting til Phase 3 trials pass and the FDA gives full approval (not emergency)?

Our risk is low. Our long-term is (hopefully) longer than many that have been prioritized. Our mask/social distance practices won't change. With baby on board, is waiting a safer plan? What do the TGR epidemiologists / inoculators think?

[GoldMember]

I'm sure they did, but there are probably also a lot more people choosing not to get vaccinated in eastern WA vs. western.

I'm not sure that's entirely it, although I think it's a contributor. In looking at the map PNW put up, the percentages between counties aren't that different. Most are in the 60% plus for over 65 (WW at 68%, Spokane at 63%, King at 68%) but some of the very least populated in E WA are much lower so, that might be it. But that still doesn't explain why WW has had so many open slots whereas in your area, it's so much more difficult to get a time. Spokane is now much more open for appointments, too, in spite of more population density and the problems we had getting scheduled early on. I get the feeling it's more about available facilities/staffing than it is hesitancy. But that's just speculation so....

[nickwm21]

https://www.beckershospitalreview.co...-march-15.html

Interesting data.

Utah? I’m guessing Mormons?
DC? Hmmm
Southern states. Rednecks and Drumpf?

South Dakota in 2nd place? Guess they don’t believe their governor

The data would make more sense if it were % of population over 18. But even so it’s interesting data

- HHS has some formula for divvying up the doses per state; I don’t think they ever told a what it was, and it’s not as simple as purely population based.
- Each state has their own system of distribution and eligibility with various success rates
- Each population has different a taste for getting jabbed...

ie - I don’t think the data is super apples-to-apples between the states...


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[old goat]

You should be very happy with your results. Some even died taking just the first dose...

Some people died just from making an appointment for the first dose. And a few folks died just thinking about making an appointment. And I heard of one guy who died when he read that they were working on a vaccine.

Meanwhile--apparently the blood clots with the AZ are real-=but rare. The blood clots are mostly in young people. Now the regulators have to figure out what to do about it, but this surely won't make getting people to take the vaccine any easier. If I were young and in good health I might go unvaccinated rather than take the AZ--at least until there is more data and solid numbers.

[KQ]

Edit: it looks like WW county has 26% of total population vaccinated - if they have that many untaken doses they should be moved to counties that haven't got that high a figure. Like Franklin that only has 12% or Pierce at 18%.

Franklin has other issues. People aren't signing up be it that they are anti, scared or not eligible.

I'm sure as soon at the 15th rolls around W2 will have full clinic days.

[KQ]

*I don't have any idea what I'm talking about.

My pregnant wife and I were signed up for the Janssen (J&J) vaccine tomorrow. I cancelled my appointment.

Her doc initially said to wait, as pregnant women were excluded from trials. At her most recent appointment, the doc said the single jab J&J would be good for her (preferred over the mRNA Moderna/Pfizer).

Last week's news that Emergent was fucking up vaccines and have a history of running a dirty lab makes me think we should wait a bit, let the new batches with greater oversight work into the system. Does anyone have an educated guess when that would be? 1 week, 1 month, 6 months?

I am somewhat hesitant to get it at all. Healthy guy in mid-30s, no pre-existing conditions, we (wife, ~1 year old baby at the time) survived it about 350 days ago. It wasn't great but never scary or terrible for any of us 3; came on like a hangover, lasted for a week as a cold and fever, and another week or 2 of persistent coughing. No idea if antibodies are still present or not. We're low risk for hospitalization or death, which is what the vaccine promises to prevent. And, after the vaccine, they recommend wearing a mask, social distancing, wash your hands (exactly what we're doing now).

All 3 of us are up to date on all vaccines (not anti-vaxxers), but I feel like there is no harm in my family waiting a bit to see if any long term side effects present themselves? Or waiting til Phase 3 trials pass and the FDA gives full approval (not emergency)?

Our risk is low. Our long-term is (hopefully) longer than many that have been prioritized. Our mask/social distance practices won't change. With baby on board, is waiting a safer plan? What do the TGR epidemiologists / inoculators think?

When I was working the local clinic last Saturday I saw at least a dozen pregnant woman come through. News the other night said pregnant woman more than likely pass it to baby. Your wife has already had it so maybe she's okay but I've heard it can be quite dicey for pregnant woman to get Covid.

Study: COVID-19 Vaccine Is Safe During Pregnancy And May Protect Baby, Too

[PNWbrit]

At her most recent appointment, the doc said the single jab J&J would be good for her

Seems like you've already been told what to do.

[grskier]

*I don't have any idea what I'm talking about.

My pregnant wife and I were signed up for the Janssen (J&J) vaccine tomorrow. I cancelled my appointment.

Her doc initially said to wait, as pregnant women were excluded from trials. At her most recent appointment, the doc said the single jab J&J would be good for her (preferred over the mRNA Moderna/Pfizer).

Last week's news that Emergent was fucking up vaccines and have a history of running a dirty lab makes me think we should wait a bit, let the new batches with greater oversight work into the system. Does anyone have an educated guess when that would be? 1 week, 1 month, 6 months?

I am somewhat hesitant to get it at all. Healthy guy in mid-30s, no pre-existing conditions, we (wife, ~1 year old baby at the time) survived it about 350 days ago. It wasn't great but never scary or terrible for any of us 3; came on like a hangover, lasted for a week as a cold and fever, and another week or 2 of persistent coughing. No idea if antibodies are still present or not. We're low risk for hospitalization or death, which is what the vaccine promises to prevent. And, after the vaccine, they recommend wearing a mask, social distancing, wash your hands (exactly what we're doing now).

All 3 of us are up to date on all vaccines (not anti-vaxxers), but I feel like there is no harm in my family waiting a bit to see if any long term side effects present themselves? Or waiting til Phase 3 trials pass and the FDA gives full approval (not emergency)?

Our risk is low. Our long-term is (hopefully) longer than many that have been prioritized. Our mask/social distance practices won't change. With baby on board, is waiting a safer plan? What do the TGR epidemiologists / inoculators think?

1) It appears that all of the suspect ingredients for J&J were tossed..... you should be good there
2) Preggo is OK so long as the doc and patient are OK with it..... so you're good three
3) delaying getting vaccinated prolongs the amount of time the virus is in the wild and able to mutate.....

I'd recommend just getting it. pharma has pretty tight qc

[KQ]

3) delaying getting vaccinated prolongs the amount of time the virus is in the wild and able to mutate.....

Dude... haven't you heard?

my high school friend's facebook posts state "anyone vaccinated has had their immune system knocked out. This is leading to the increase in variants. When non-vaccinated people get infected with a variant it's because of the vaccinated people..."

They've made their cover story for when not being vaccinated backfires - it's the vaccine's fault.