To Vaccinate or Not---The Rat Flu Odyssey Continues

**k2skier112** · 08-01-2021, 01:56 PM

Youi know how everyone can tell you're a moronic liar RJ? "Masks provide no benefit, covid is basically the flu". But truly you must be a troll, no one can really be that ignorant, selfish and cowardly...

Poor little delicate snowflake can't handle a piece of cloth over his face...I bet you don't even ski, it's too cold for baby buttercup

I hope you get long covid, so it can wake your dumb ass up

**wooley12** · 08-01-2021, 02:00 PM

"But truly you must be a troll, no one can really be that ignorant, selfish and cowardly..."

You would be wrong in that judgement. He's not alone in that club. I know to many people with those same "qualities"

RJ, you an only child or did you mom produce some that were not morons?

**MultiVerse** · 08-01-2021, 02:06 PM

It's not just the flu for men in their 30s.

For men in their 30s about 1.2% of COVID-19 infections end in hospitalization. About 9 in 10 hospitalized patients experience long-term illness.

Multiplying the hospitalization rate by the chronic illness rate (.012 * .9 = .0108 ) results in about a 1% chance of chronic illness. In other words, a man in his 30s has a 1-in-100 chance of developing a long-term illness, including a higher risk of heart disease and organ damage, after being infected with COVID-19.

It's also looking like you are going to have to take a booster every 6-12 months.

Booster shots boost neutralizing antibody (NAb) which fall over time so an antibody boost is helpful with a fast replicating variant like delta especially in people older than 60.

However, the immune system also develops other lines of defense in response to vaccination including B-cell, and T-cell activation which is slower to respond but longer (perhaps a lifetime) lasting. So even if a person chose to skip booster shots they would still benefit immensely from the immune response vaccines provide.

**Buster Highmen** · 08-01-2021, 02:08 PM

Data that covid affects the healthy:
https://www.washingtonpost.com/sport...justin-foster/
https://www.cnn.com/2021/07/21/sport...cmd/index.html
https://www.sbnation.com/nba/2021/3/...amba-asia-durr

Data that masks provide benefit:
https://www.ucsf.edu/news/2020/06/41...-masks-prevent
https://files.fast.ai/papers/masks_lit_review.pdf
https://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-...neral%20public.

**uglymoney** · 08-01-2021, 02:40 PM

https://twitter.com/RightWingWatch/s...427867654?s=19

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**old goat** · 08-01-2021, 02:47 PM

Originally Posted by KQ

“If you know the enemy and know yourself, you need not fear the result of a hundred battles. If you know yourself but not the enemy, for every victory gained you will also suffer a defeat. If you know neither the enemy nor yourself, you will succumb in every battle.”

― Sun Tzu, The Art of War

I keep meaning to read Sun-Tzu. Maybe this time I will. Putting it on my Amazon wish list anyway.

Originally Posted by KQ

The Oklahoma Republican Party faced fierce criticism on Friday for a Facebook post likening COVID-19 vaccine mandates to the persecution of Jewish people in Nazi Germany.

The post on the party’s official Facebook page urged people to call the lieutenant governor and ask him to call a special session to prohibit employers from requiring their employees to get vaccinated. It featured a picture of a yellow Star of David with the word “unvaccinated” on it and said: “Those who don’t know history are doomed to repeat it.”

You do realize that someone is going to think you're a Nazi for posting that. Maybe you need to add a disclaimer--"The opinions expressed in this link do not reflect the opinion of the poster but are the opinions of a bunch of brainwashed imbeciles."

**ron johnson** · 08-01-2021, 02:55 PM

Originally Posted by MultiVerse

It's not just the flu for men in their 30s.

For men in their 30s about 1.2% of COVID-19 infections end in hospitalization. About 9 in 10 hospitalized patients experience long-term illness.

Multiplying the hospitalization rate by the chronic illness rate (.012 * .9 = .0108 ) results in about a 1% chance of chronic illness. In other words, a man in his 30s has a 1-in-100 chance of developing a long-term illness after being infected with COVID-19.

Don't know where you are pulling your numbers from, but those numbers are going to be inflated by the obese/diabetic/immunocompromised/etc. A healthy person in their 30's doesn't have anywhere near a 1% chance of whatever you are considering a chronic illness.

**jono** · 08-01-2021, 02:56 PM

Strong chance that rj isn't even in the US. I've met other people who got paid to argue online for Moscow's nonsense (9/11 truthers BITD) and "he" makes a good fit what with all the global warming denial and Russia's petro economy. They do seem to have switched authors for a Covidiot lately, though.

We should take bets. I'll say these days she's a 30-something stay at home mom in Estonia who returned home when her career as an au pair in Ireland fizzled after Brexit.

**ron johnson** · 08-01-2021, 02:57 PM

Originally Posted by k2skier112

Youi know how everyone can tell you're a moronic liar RJ? "Masks provide no benefit, covid is basically the flu". But truly you must be a troll, no one can really be that ignorant, selfish and cowardly...

Poor little delicate snowflake can't handle a piece of cloth over his face...I bet you don't even ski, it's too cold for baby buttercup

I hope you get long covid, so it can wake your dumb ass up

You know how I know you're a moronic liar? Because you left out the key point that I was talking about a healthy person in their 30's.

**Benny Profane** · 08-01-2021, 03:07 PM

Let's see what becomes of this.

https://twitter.com/CBSNews/status/1...347217409?s=20

**jono** · 08-01-2021, 03:08 PM

Originally Posted by old goat

You do realize that someone is going to think you're a Nazi for posting that. Maybe you need to add a disclaimer--"The opinions expressed in this link do not reflect the opinion of the poster but are the opinions of a bunch of brainwashed imbeciles."

DARPA is on it. Feels like it's going to require careful adjustments, though.

https://www.tetongravity.com/forums/...er-Calibration

**ron johnson** · 08-01-2021, 03:08 PM

Originally Posted by Buster Highmen

Data that covid affects the healthy:
https://www.washingtonpost.com/sport...justin-foster/
https://www.cnn.com/2021/07/21/sport...cmd/index.html
https://www.sbnation.com/nba/2021/3/...amba-asia-durr

That's not data, that's anecdote. Jayson Tatum averaged 30/6/4.5 in 37mpg in the playoffs and is now on the olympic team. I'll take some of that.

Data that masks provide benefit:
https://www.ucsf.edu/news/2020/06/41...-masks-prevent
https://files.fast.ai/papers/masks_lit_review.pdf
https://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-...neral%20public.

We rehashed masks last week, guess you weren't around.

**k2skier112** · 08-01-2021, 03:12 PM

RJ, есть дерьмо и умереть

**Buster Highmen** · 08-01-2021, 03:18 PM

It is data, and it is part of a statistically significant set.

I'll take the CDC, Mayo clinic and Nature articles, among others. over misleading claims. There are virtually no significant studies supporting that masks don't work.

**Ted Striker** · 08-01-2021, 03:22 PM

Originally Posted by jono

Strong chance that rj isn't even in the US. I've met other people who got paid to argue online...

Me too. Don't know who was paying him, but he's in Canada.

**MultiVerse** · 08-01-2021, 03:22 PM

Originally Posted by Benny Profane

Let's see what becomes of this.

https://twitter.com/CBSNews/status/1...347217409?s=20

Concert promoters say >90% of attendees are vaccinated.

KQ · 08-01-2021, 03:26 PM

Originally Posted by old goat

You do realize that someone is going to think you're a Nazi for posting that. Maybe you need to add a disclaimer--"The opinions expressed in this link do not reflect the opinion of the poster but are the opinions of a bunch of brainwashed imbeciles."

For posting a news story?

**MultiVerse** · 08-01-2021, 03:36 PM

Originally Posted by jono

Strong chance that rj isn't even in the US. I've met other people who got paid to argue online for Moscow's nonsense (9/11 truthers BITD) and "he" makes a good fit what with all the global warming denial and Russia's petro economy. They do seem to have switched authors for a Covidiot lately, though.

We should take bets. I'll say these days she's a 30-something stay at home mom in Estonia who returned home when her career as an au pair in Ireland fizzled after Brexit.

Originally Posted by uglymoney

https://twitter.com/RightWingWatch/s...427867654?s=19

As mind numbing and wrong as RJ is, I view him or her as a proxy for all the misinformation that's out there because it's always orthodox and boilerplate. There's hardly any semblance of critical thinking. It rarely stands up to scrutiny. While RJ is undoubtedly a grifter and a con, it could be unwitting.

It's as much a social as it is an individual issue arising from what you see in uglymoney's tweet. Misinformation is obtained from neighbors, churches, workplaces, and social networks. Once the misinformation is entrenched, getting vaccinated or whatever becomes a betrayal of group norms.

For example, while this woman's otherwise healthy and active 42yr old husband was in the I.C.U. on a respirator at Utah Valley Hospital in Provo community members and business partners showed up with anti-vaccine propaganda urging her not to vaccinate herself and her family.

As crazy as it sounds, it's about in-group loyalty. Defying your group is a big ask for just about anybody.

**Buster Highmen** · 08-01-2021, 03:40 PM

I've been thinking it's all part of a god complex manifesting at all levels of society: people believe that they can change reality by denying the obvious and the concomitant anger and denial when that doesn't work.

**MagnificentUnicorn** · 08-01-2021, 03:41 PM

Originally Posted by Buster Highmen

It is data, and it is part of a statistically significant set.

I'll take the CDC, Mayo clinic and Nature articles, among others. over misleading claims. There are virtually no significant studies supporting that masks don't work.

I could explain to a first grader how a mask provides a barrier that captures droplets and aerosolized saliva(not all) preventing some of the dispersal into the immediate environment and they understand.

For any adult to deny that masks provide some level of mitigation is disingenuous at best.

Kids don’t care about masks either, I asked several friends of mine that are teachers if they had problems with kids wearing masks and they said no, it’s the dumbass parents making a big deal about it. Projection

Yes, I know it’s anecdotal but as a parent I know that children are remarkably flexible and resilient. In surgery, a hysterical child will often calm down and cooperate once their parents are removed from the scene

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**Buster Highmen** · 08-01-2021, 03:42 PM

I greatly dislike masks, but I wear one when in public indoor locales.

America has an outrageously high proportion of immature induhviduals.

**jono** · 08-01-2021, 04:04 PM

Originally Posted by MultiVerse

As crazy as it sounds, it's about in-group loyalty. Defying your group is a big ask for just about anybody.

There's definitely an element of that in the Q-adjacents I know around here, probably the majority of them. The rest are mainly folks doing very poor "research" who are strongly biased to believe anything they "discover" themselves, and which they push as the defining beliefs of their in-group. I've started asking if one particular falsehood or another is a belief or something they are investigating. The answer typically turns out to be a lie. I'll hear something like "you can check me on this!" but you may not be friends anymore if you do.

**old goat** · 08-01-2021, 04:08 PM

Originally Posted by Core Shot

ICU staff are nowhere near the burnout rate of ED. In ICU, they keep a strict nurse to patient ratio. Not a bad thing. Strong union.

The first casualty of overburdened ICU's is nurses being asked to do double shifts--and most nurses won't say no, even when it's not in their best interest or the interest of their patients. The second casualty is those strict nurse to patient ratio. There have been lots of stories written about how many patients nurses are caring for in covid icus.
The cardinal symptom of burnout is not giving a shit--in the case of nurses not giving a shit about their patients. It's really hard to burn out a nurse. They may be exhausted and depressed and angry but it's hard to get them to stop caring. Really hard.

**ron johnson** · 08-01-2021, 04:13 PM

Originally Posted by Buster Highmen

It is data, and it is part of a statistically significant set.

I'll take the CDC, Mayo clinic and Nature articles, among others. over misleading claims. There are virtually no significant studies supporting that masks don't work.

There are plenty, you just ignore them.

**ron johnson** · 08-01-2021, 04:17 PM

Originally Posted by MultiVerse

As mind numbing and wrong as RJ is, I view him or her as a proxy for all the misinformation that's out there because it's always orthodox and boilerplate. There's hardly any semblance of critical thinking. It rarely stands up to scrutiny. While RJ is undoubtedly a grifter and a con, it could be unwitting.

LOL please. I did my own cost/benefit analysis on vaccines (critical thinking), which you tried to debunk and failed. Meanwhile, virtually no one in this thread can comprehend why some people might not want a vaccine, yet I'm the one without any critical thinking?

With masks, I actually looked at the scientific evidence combined with real world data to reach my opinion. Everyone else just defers to whatever corporate media tells them.

Orthodox and boilerplate is exactly what this thread is.

As crazy as it sounds, it's about in-group loyalty. Defying your group is a big ask for just about anybody.

Yep, but somehow you guys think it doesn't apply to yourselves.