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  1. #3401
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    Quote Originally Posted by Danno View Post
    WRT glade's response, I'm not sure this clip has ever been more appropriate, lol.



    I think you and your wife get the vaccine. I don't think you have a valid reason not to. And while everything is more nerve-wracking when it comes to pregnancy, honestly the info out there should encourage your wife to get it, because it might provide some immunity/protection for the newborn.

    The Dudes right, at this point you're just asshole if you don't get it. I felt similar to ya TipsUp. I'm early 30's, healthy, I never got covid so far as I know. Secretly and selfishly I didn't want to get vaxxed, but I did once I became eligible through my work. So did my wife. We live far from family and wanna travel to visit without feeling like assholes. Some of the family is vaxxed, the others, well that's their deal...but we aren't getting sick from them.

    Oh, look at me. I'm rambling again...

    Anyways, I don't like putting my fate in the hands of others but we all do just that, all the time for better or worse. Drunk drivers, surgeons, pilots, lift mechanics, people who won't play by the covid rules. You gotta trust the experts on this cause I don't know what it's like where you live, but where I am the threat of covid is real due to tourism, traveling workers and assholes who won't voluntarily mask up and distance damned if their vacay is ruined.

    on the plus...
    I was surprised and encouraged to see how many of our peers were getting jabbed at the rural clinic I went to. I bet a lot of them feel the same way as I do. From the friends I've talked to we are all saying, Ya figured I might as well get it, the right thing to do, wanna travel, etc. etc.

  2. #3402
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    well, maybe I wasn't clear, Glade was Walter in that clip. Not wrong, ie Tips^up should get vaxxed, but expressing it in perhaps not the most helpful way.
    "fuck off you asshat gaper shit for brains fucktard wanker." - Jesus Christ
    "She was tossing her bean salad with the vigor of a Drunken Pop princess so I walked out of the corner and said.... "need a hand?"" - Odin
    "everybody's got their hooks into you, fuck em....forge on motherfuckers, drag all those bitches across the goal line with you." - (not so) ill-advised strategy

  3. #3403
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    Quote Originally Posted by uglymoney View Post
    Unfortunately the money, as much as I think it was/is needed, came too soon. People are acting like we have a green light when it is really yellow.
    Truth.

  4. #3404
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ted Striker View Post
    I'm probably going to get flack for this, but IRL I've been saying that Americans don't take it seriously enough because of the widely held perception that it doesn't affect kids. The entire anti-vax movement is about kids. It's how the automobile industry convinced every woman in this country to drive a tank.

    The media/politicians/health authorities' messaging about grandma dying didn't move the needle anywhere near as far as saying kids are at risk too would have (even if it isn't true). Now that it might be true, that's the only thing that's going to get some of the holdouts to get their heads out of their asses.
    I hope so. I think the problem now is going to be that those who are vaxxed see it as someone else's problem. They're vaxxed so they're good. What do they care if people who aren't vaxxed get Covid?

  5. #3405
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    Yeah, I'm already seeing that here.

  6. #3406
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    My armchair observation on the pregnancy vs vaccine deal.

    Our society is changing. Women are waiting to get pregnant. Women are in their mid-to-late-30s going for kid one. They have some fertility challenges, maybe a miscarriage, maybe they spent a pretty penny on IVF, etc...

    They finally get pregnant during this COVID mess and simultaneously get access to the Covid Vaccine.

    They struggled to get pregnant in the first place, now this wild card comes in...

    There is no scientific evidence that the vaccine negatively affects the baby or pregnancy.

    But I can understand why a pregnant women would have some hesitation. Especially if they had struggled to get pregnant in the first place... especially considering everything mentally and hormonally that is going on during a pregnancy...

    So yeah. Tread lightly, wear some armor, but get her vaccinated.


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  7. #3407
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    Quote Originally Posted by The AD View Post
    I hope so. I think the problem now is going to be that those who are vaxxed see it as someone else's problem. They're vaxxed so they're good. What do they care if people who aren't vaxxed get Covid?
    I know this is a pipe dream but I would hope the people vaxxed would treat others respectfully and continue the practices of mask wearing and social distancing. But that's not how we tend to act, especially with lockdown fatigue and better weather approaching. We're already seeing so much more interaction around here, it's scary. Fortunately, our numbers have remained fairly good so it's not hit home yet but, we're on the cusp of having to go back to Phase 2 in Spokane.

    A friend posted a video of a local Gonzaga hangout following the UCLA game on Saturday. Five minutes after the final shot, the place was pretty packed, people all on their feet, high-fiving, hugging, not a mask in sight. I was just happy to not have been part of it but it really struck me how stupid that was. For one thing, the bar could really be in trouble with the State as they were nowhere in compliance with the current restrictions. I am also sure that there were a number of other establishments that were experiencing the same thing. That's the kind of thing that's going to get us back in the soup if people continue to be careless.

  8. #3408
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    Quote Originally Posted by glademaster View Post
    Shut the fuck up and get stuck. Both of you.

    Selfish people like you are fucking it up for the rest of us who understand that there are things we are obligated to do in order to function as a society.
    An RFV trustfunder that can't afford to live in Aspen that has anger issues?! Cool bro

  9. #3409
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    Quote Originally Posted by The AD View Post
    I hope so. I think the problem now is going to be that those who are vaxxed see it as someone else's problem. They're vaxxed so they're good. What do they care if people who aren't vaxxed get Covid?
    I have a kid so don't think this way, because there is no vaccine available for my kid and won't be for some time. Of course, there are also people who want the vaccine but haven't yet been able to get jabbed, and there are a small group of people who for one reason or other can't (don't know anything about what medical issues are contraindications for vaccination but I'm assuming there are some).

    That said, it's easy to understand why people think this way, because part of me is like "if you dumb fuckers won't take the goddam vaccine that's being offered for FREE, why should I give a fuck if you get covid and end up in a hospital?"
    "fuck off you asshat gaper shit for brains fucktard wanker." - Jesus Christ
    "She was tossing her bean salad with the vigor of a Drunken Pop princess so I walked out of the corner and said.... "need a hand?"" - Odin
    "everybody's got their hooks into you, fuck em....forge on motherfuckers, drag all those bitches across the goal line with you." - (not so) ill-advised strategy

  10. #3410
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    Seattle has just updated their vaccination notification website to allow those 16 and over to get on the list. This gives me some hope, although I'll be pursuing every opportunity I can when eligibility opens up. Woohoo!

  11. #3411
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    A good visualization here showing why it's important for everyone to get a vaccine if they are able:
    https://www.npr.org/sections/health-...nds-in-its-way

    I've pretty much lost hope that the US will actually get there.

  12. #3412
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    Let's try it this way. The following are all facts:

    - I'm not anti-vax. I've never voted for Trump. My wife is pregnant. Her doctor said she could get the Janssen vaccine. We wear masks, socially distance, wash hands.
    - None of the current vaccines have full FDA approval.
    - None of the vaccines have completed phase 3 trials.
    - They were invented last year and rushed to market, there are no long term studies on the vaccines.
    - Last week, the Emergent lab making the Janssen vaccine had to dump 15,000,000 doses because they screwed up ingredients, in a lab that is not approved by the FDA.
    - Emergent has been cited repeatedly by the Food and Drug Administration for problems such as poorly trained employees, cracked vials and mold in facilities.
    - As of right now, CDC's website reports 554,420 deaths in USA from Covid-19 and 30,596,830 confirmed cases (excluding my family of 3 and who knows how many others). 1.81% of confirmed covid cases have died.
    - In my 30-39 age bracket in the US, there have been 5,683 deaths, 1.06% of covid deaths nationwide have been in my demographic. Of confirmed cases, someone 30-39 years old has died 0.00018% of the time.

    I intend to get vaccinated at some point. That point may be tomorrow, or it may be in a month or 6. Besides media-induced panic (which is all ran and controlled by high risk baby boomers, who should get vaxxed asap), I believe I don't need to rush this decision.

  13. #3413
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    Quote Originally Posted by adrenalated View Post
    A good visualization here showing why it's important for everyone to get a vaccine if they are able:
    https://www.npr.org/sections/health-...nds-in-its-way

    I've pretty much lost hope that the US will actually get there.
    I haven't lost hope but I think it's going to take awhile to get to herd immunity due to the hesitancy. The issue is whether we can get to herd immunity before some variant comes along that escapes the vaccine's capacity to suppress it and we start all over again. That, to me, is the biggest reason to do this to as many and as fast as possible. It's a race against the mutants.

  14. #3414
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    Tips^Up - It's obvious you've given/are giving this a lot of thought. You're being very rational in your decision making and weighing all the pro/cons and not providing any points that can really be argued. One point, I guess that I would somewhat clarify is the Emergent is probably not a concern at this point since none of the contaminated vaccine was ever filled and all of J&J's efforts are under intense scrutiny at this point. None-the-less, it did happen so it's a point of raising eyebrows, for sure.

    So, it comes down to a personal/family decision. To that end, whichever way you decide, it will be the right decision for you, I'm sure. Whichever way you go, thank you for being rational and thoughtful in the process. It will be for the right reasons. Best of luck going forward.

  15. #3415
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    Moderna #1 done at Deaconess in Spokane. I’m glad they’re running a clinic but it didn’t seem super organized. 50+ people in a single conference room for the poking and that’s also where you waited the 15 mins post-shot.

    Definitely the most people I’ve been around for the longest time in a year.

  16. #3416
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tips^Up View Post
    Let's try it this way. The following are all facts:

    - I'm not anti-vax. I've never voted for Trump. My wife is pregnant. Her doctor said she could get the Janssen vaccine. We wear masks, socially distance, wash hands.
    - None of the current vaccines have full FDA approval.
    - None of the vaccines have completed phase 3 trials.
    - They were invented last year and rushed to market, there are no long term studies on the vaccines.
    - Last week, the Emergent lab making the Janssen vaccine had to dump 15,000,000 doses because they screwed up ingredients, in a lab that is not approved by the FDA.
    - Emergent has been cited repeatedly by the Food and Drug Administration for problems such as poorly trained employees, cracked vials and mold in facilities.
    - As of right now, CDC's website reports 554,420 deaths in USA from Covid-19 and 30,596,830 confirmed cases (excluding my family of 3 and who knows how many others). 1.81% of confirmed covid cases have died.
    - In my 30-39 age bracket in the US, there have been 5,683 deaths, 1.06% of covid deaths nationwide have been in my demographic. Of confirmed cases, someone 30-39 years old has died 0.00018% of the time.

    I intend to get vaccinated at some point. That point may be tomorrow, or it may be in a month or 6. Besides media-induced panic (which is all ran and controlled by high risk baby boomers, who should get vaxxed asap), I believe I don't need to rush this decision.
    Why are you posting here? To get validation for a decision that you've already made? Because numerous people have told you their opinion, and all that has done is caused you to restate the reasons why you won't be getting it, even though you're framing it as "asking the collective".
    "fuck off you asshat gaper shit for brains fucktard wanker." - Jesus Christ
    "She was tossing her bean salad with the vigor of a Drunken Pop princess so I walked out of the corner and said.... "need a hand?"" - Odin
    "everybody's got their hooks into you, fuck em....forge on motherfuckers, drag all those bitches across the goal line with you." - (not so) ill-advised strategy

  17. #3417
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    Quote Originally Posted by Danno View Post
    Why are you posting here? To get validation for a decision that you've already made? Because numerous people have told you their opinion, and all that has done is caused you to restate the reasons why you won't be getting it, even though you're framing it as "asking the collective".
    I'm seeking more knowledge from our broad collective that could convince me one way or the other. TGR advice is how I make every life decision.

    Once more - I'm not anti-vax, I intend to get it eventually, I'm just skeptical at this point and wish there was better long term data (which is impossible because of the recency of development).

  18. #3418
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tips^Up View Post
    Let's try it this way. The following are all facts:

    - None of the vaccines have completed phase 3 trials.
    - They were invented last year and rushed to market, there are no long term studies on the vaccines.
    Couple things here: they have completed Phase III trials as far as administration, that was the bar for the EUA. Meaning safety is well behind us and the remainder is a look at long term efficacy. And the "invention" of these vaccines goes back to a lot of research that started a long time ago looking at SARS and MERS and the assumption that a novel coronavirus would emerge at some point. The fact that it only took 10 days to get a viable vaccine afterthe Chinese published the genome says a ton about the work that had been done ahead of time.

    But it's kind of moot at this point for all but the most long term questions: the numbers that have been dosed at this point far exceed any Phase III trial and none of the approved vaccines in the US market have shown any cause for concern. As GM pointed out, this is a race against mutants and particularly concerning are those that re-infect people. Those are going to become dominant and the vaccines do a much better job against them than your acquired immunity.

    But really, for your family, you're comparing two small risks. One of them is many orders of magnitude smaller than the other, though. Basically zero from presently known data, which is not a small sample. You could wait to decide, but if you're waiting to see long term effects you should notice that the phase I trials (small though they were, they did give huge doses to a few people) took place almost as long ago now as the first cases of the disease. If long term effects of the disease don't bother you there's no reason to worry any more than that about the vaccine.
    A woman came up to me and said "I'd like to poison your mind
    with wrong ideas that appeal to you, though I am not unkind."

  19. #3419
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    Tips^Up - I missed your claim about full FDA approval and incomplete Phase 3 trials. Jono is correct in his arguments and is clearly more knowledgeable on these aspects than me so I'll defer to his response. Regardless, I still think you're looking at this reasonably clearly and you'll make a reasoned decision but make sure you research your facts a little deeper to be certain you're correct in your assessments of them.

    It appears you've made a couple of conclusions that aren't really correct. Also, as Jono points out, this science and mRNA have been in the works for awhile and the broad application of the the vaccine at this point and subsequent current results far outweigh whatever may have been learned through clinical trials. The data is exceptionally more promising than what the trials showed so you should have some higher level of assurance just in that fact alone. Still, it's your decision for you and your family. But to PNW's point, you were looking for advice/direction and your wife's doctor has seemingly already given the advice you should consider much more highly than anything you can get from the board, Mofro's as an exception.

  20. #3420
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tips^Up View Post
    I'm seeking more knowledge from our broad collective that could convince me one way or the other. TGR advice is how I make every life decision.

    Once more - I'm not anti-vax, I intend to get it eventually, I'm just skeptical at this point and wish there was better long term data (which is impossible because of the recency of development).
    i figure im fucking 50...how much i got left? Not many long lifers in either side of my familes. Sure I could be an outlier, but I doubt it. Generally healthy, but heck my dad had his first heart attack at the damn gym getting "healthy" at 50...I guess i figure i got a good 20-25 years left, unless these vaccines are really fucked up I think ill be alright. I figure its worth the risk for the larger (than TGR) "collective".

    I will say I hate wearing a mask, but I do it, without complaint, everywhere its required. Again for that "collective" shits crazy all around.

  21. #3421
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    I'm doing nothing but parroting back what Mofro and friends have said here--some probably incorrectly, for that matter. But as far as it goes, there has been a lot of good info posted here and the idea of bouncing your thinking off TGR is not all bad. (Probably AMA, but not all bad.)

  22. #3422
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    Tips Up check your PMs for the vid I did.

    -------------

    Some of the latest data out is super encouraging:
    1. Single dose mRNA generating excellent crossvariant protection in those who had a previous COVID infection.
    2. Great protection and safety at 6mo for Pfizer (as was predicted, but data is great)
    3. Decent protection off of a single dose (2 still recommended)
    4. Improved protection for kids by having adults vaxxed
    5. Trials for 12-15y/o are showing safety for Pfizer. This population will be critical to help reach herd immunity.
    6. J&J is actually a great vaccine and is more effective than the 66% that is often headlined when you consider the differences in study design, timing, and environment vs the mRNA vaccines.
    7. Encouraging vaccine efficacy against variants
    8. Vaccine rollout is encouraging in US
    9. Economic recovery is encouraging in the US
    10. Hospitalization trends are sustainable in the US

    Other data is super frightening:
    1. Long term effects of COVID infection are going to a big problem for society with one study showing one third of COVID sufferers are then diagnosed with a psychological or neurological disorder after infection.
    2. US communities are abandoning the cheapest, easiest, and least intrusive interventions like masking.
    3. Brazil is fucked.
    4. Developing countries are lagging hard on vaccine creating worry about further variants.
    Quote Originally Posted by blurred
    skiing is hiking all day so that you can ski on shitty gear for 5 minutes.

  23. #3423
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    Mrs C got pfizer 2 Monday morning. A little achy and felt cold that night but all good now. I'm going for pfizer 2 tonight.

    I'll admit with vaccines opening to everyone and availability of appointments here, I'm going to have a hard time not saying fuck off to those who choose not to get a shot but I'll do my best (I do mask when in public).

    Kind of funny, I'm one of the few who will wear a mask on my limited trips to work. The folks there were not yesterday and so I asked why not while we still have signs on the door that you need to wear one. Apparently the few that still go in all the time decided that they don't need to because about half the employees are WFH during a remodel. Those folks are also on the fence for getting a shot. Hence my dilemma of saying screw it, I got my vaccine.

  24. #3424
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    Quote Originally Posted by Summit View Post
    3. Brazil is fucked.
    .
    How fucked?
    What we have here is an intelligence failure. You may be familiar with staring directly at that when shaving. .
    -Ottime
    One man can only push so many boulders up hills at one time.
    -BMillsSkier

  25. #3425
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    Quote Originally Posted by seano732 View Post
    How fucked?
    They are in a spiking uptrend in their epi curve and their ICU status looks like this:

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	_117606169_brazil_states_covid_map_640-nc.png 
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ID:	370727

    https://www.bbc.com/news/world-latin-america-56424611

    If you've read how bat it has been in South Africa, which had it worse than Italy last year, it's just frightening and depressing especially when I think about those bedside providers who will work themselves to death while having to offer lesser care to their patients and deny care to other patients because there isn't capacity.

    3 people are dying every minute of COVID in Brazil but they are nowhere near the top of the death curve. It will get much worse before it gets better. That scenario is exactly what COVID restrictions were meant to prevent, overwhelming the health system and the 2nd and 3rd order effects that result (eg interfering with care of non-COVID patients, avoidance of care, economic disruption and costs, pain, misery, disability, death, fear, and tragedy.

    Yesterday I made a huge argument against upping some COVID mitigation restrictions based on the ability of regional healthcare capacity in an environment where most of the most vulnerable are vaccinated.

    In Brazil, they could go back to a severe "lockdown" restrictions, and it wouldn't be enough to stop it from getting worse vs now, but they could prevent it from being as bad as will end up being without further restrictions.
    Quote Originally Posted by blurred
    skiing is hiking all day so that you can ski on shitty gear for 5 minutes.

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