To Vaccinate or Not---The Rat Flu Odyssey Continues

[skaredshtles]

JFC. The combo of facebook misinformation and dumb conservatives....

...

[MultiVerse]

And I dunno that I'd say it explains every case. I was just wondering if it isn't a simpler explanation for the pattern of side effects we're seeing in the people who were never diagnosed with COVID, and wondering why (or if) nobody had brought it up before.

It has been brought up before. It's no big deal discussing it again but it's a little obnoxious when all the evidence counter to an argument is ignored while also torturing the data in support of an argument. For example, the study discussed on the previous page(s) clearly states it's looking at antibody responses after the first dose:

"Antibody Responses in Seropositive Persons after a Single Dose of SARS-CoV-2 mRNA Vaccine"

The fact that seropositive individuals experience a higher frequency of side effects after the first dose is completely in line with the earlier discussion and research:

"Previously-infected individuals tend to have a strong reaction to the first vaccine dose whereas the non-infected have a strong reaction to the second dose."

[BobMc]

2nd Moderna in the arm. Pharmacist must have hit a vessel 'cause I was dripping blood down my arm before she could get a bandaid on.

Injection site isn't even sore...

I read this post as I was sitting in the 15 minute after vacc wait line. When getting 2nd Moderna I swear the guy wound up to jab me. I felt something running down my arm and him wiping it off. At first I thought he might have prematurely innoculated me and blew it on my arm. After reading that post I pulled up my shirt and could see the blood stain down my arm.

[Rideski]

Jesus Christ! Fuckin Ruskies.

"The Sputnik V vaccine Ad5 vector is evidently replication competent. The makers apparently neglected to delete E1, so getting this vaccine means being infected with live adenovirus 5."

https://twitter.com/angie_rasmussen/...97186372005893

I followed the thread for a while and never saw a clear answer. Does that mean the effectiveness against covid is effected or that they will get. Cold with the vax? Who’s Angie R? Dubious she’s putting cheesy memes in her clinical analysis

[The SnowShow]

21 hours since second Moderna: getting the full ride. Fever, headache, body aches, chills, exhaustion, some dizziness. Side effects started around 12 hours after jab so was up a lot last night tossing and turning. Drinking a ton of water and eating well. Hoping this passes today.

[old goat]

Yeah .... no; make it free Boba "tea" and you got it.

No Boba tea. Tapioca pearls shortage--apparently sitting on container ships waiting and waiting and waiting to unload.
(WTF is Boba tea? How can there be a critical shortage of something I've never heard of.)

Jesus Christ! Fuckin Ruskies.

"The Sputnik V vaccine Ad5 vector is evidently replication competent. The makers apparently neglected to delete E1, so getting this vaccine means being infected with live adenovirus 5."

https://twitter.com/angie_rasmussen/...97186372005893

Who was it a while back who was saying that they should have made the vector vaccines replicating, so that vaccinated people could spread it to the anti-vaxxers?

[XXX-er]

I was joking, hence the "(cue rimshot)" bit. "I'm too tired" and "I have a headache" are clichéd girl-speak euphemisms for "Nope, we're not having sex tonight, cowboy". I was trying to point out the non-specificity of "fatigue" and "headache" endpoints in the linked study and arguable uselessness of those metrics for a vaccine side effect study.

Yeah, I know the researchers included it in their survey, but I think there's enough reason to question the validity of those end points in this study. They're just too non-specific.

That's a very good point, both in this study and in the general population. In the study, the seronegative group in the study was almost twice as big as the seropositive group. Which is why I did the math in my previous posts to estimate the number of subjects reporting these (systemic) symptoms:

The figure (Fig B) is a little confusing though, in that the "No. of Participants" axis along the top of the graph in the figure don't add up to the number of individuals in that group (148 for seronegative, 82 for seropositive). The researchers counted each instance of each side effect, rather than counting the number of individuals who had side effects. So if one individual reports fever, chills, and swelling, that counts as 1 instance of 3 different side effects, rather than as 1 individual with side effects. I think that's a great way to design the study, but it makes the generalization of "how many subjects had severe side effects" a little difficult to estimate. When I said "~3 or 4 seronegative subjects reporting severe side effects", that was based on the assumption that someone who experiences fever probably also experiences chills, for instance. This is a moderate assumption. The number of seronegative folks who have systemic side effects could be as high as a dozen if each individual who has a systemic side effect only has a single systemic side effect. I don't think that's biologically plausible, but it's not impossible.

I agree. But "my" idea was that the group of people who say they never had COVID and yet are reporting severe side effects following vaccination are actually people who contracted SARS-CoV-2 and had such a mild case that they didn't even know they'd contracted it. While they self-identify as SARS-CoV-2 naive, they are (unknowingly) seropositive. Again, just an idea.

I actuly booted up PC & read just that post 1st and made a comment, then i read the preceding page, I probably wouldnt have posted any thing if i read it in order !

[XXX-er]

Hmmm, well our Pfizer clinics have been going well to date with those signed up (and now walk-ins) showing up so maybe this will be the same.

I hope so too, I also hope you took my off color wine-induced (pinot grigio) atempt at humor in the intended spirit

[huckbucket]

I followed the thread for a while and never saw a clear answer. Does that mean the effectiveness against covid is effected or that they will get. Cold with the vax? Who’s Angie R? Dubious she’s putting cheesy memes in her clinical analysis

Effectiveness shouldn't be impacted although host immune response will likely be different for a replication-competent virus. Readministration (boosters) might be impacted. Pathogenic effects of infection can vary (and can be severe). Vaccinated people can in theory infect others as per OG's comment. If it's a mistake, it's a FUCKING HUGE mistake. If it's not, then it's super sketchy. Either way, fuck that noise!

She's a credible voice;
https://angelarasmussen.org/bibliography

[uglymoney]

I hope so too, I also hope you took my off color wine-induced (pinot grigio) atempt at humor in the intended spirit

Damned wine.

Not directed at XXX but thought this was funny.

My wife sent me this today. She is an engineer so she gets corrected by men who think they know more than her a lot. Lol.

Also applicable to all the real experts in vaccine/medical/epidemogy dealing with idiots.

https://twitter.com/BrittaniWarrick/...729106944?s=19

Sent from my SM-G981U using Tapatalk

[PB]

No Boba tea. Tapioca pearls shortage--apparently sitting on container ships waiting and waiting and waiting to unload.
(WTF is Boba tea? How can there be a critical shortage of something I've never heard of.) ....

Exactly, the shortage is why the stampede would be massive.
Boba = tapioca (mostly). So tapioca "tea", favorite of the millennial/gen Z crowd ..... gag me with a S. sempervirens.
They drink it with a straw, fercrissakes

[The AD]

Jesus Christ! Fuckin Ruskies.

"The Sputnik V vaccine Ad5 vector is evidently replication competent. The makers apparently neglected to delete E1, so getting this vaccine means being infected with live adenovirus 5."

https://twitter.com/angie_rasmussen/...97186372005893

Sweet, just what we need: something to give the anti-vaxers ammunition.

[summit]

Jesus Christ! Fuckin Ruskies.

"The Sputnik V vaccine Ad5 vector is evidently replication competent. The makers apparently neglected to delete E1, so getting this vaccine means being infected with live adenovirus 5."

https://twitter.com/angie_rasmussen/...97186372005893

Da da da... Sputnik waxine are good prevents against Coronaveerus 93%! Is more bettering than China Sinovax anyways!

Safety is of always concern for Russ, concern of #3, rights after Vodka! Eh, maybe #4... like Soviet Moon Rocket!

This is why maybe Kazakhs make their own 2nd dose (with best potassium).

[cdlv]

Wife got 2nd pfizer yesterday and woke up at 1 am feeling like crap. Fever, headache and upset tummy. My 2nd one had no effects on me.

[KQ]

I hope so too, I also hope you took my off color wine-induced (pinot grigio) atempt at humor in the intended spirit

No worries!

Just got done with vax clinic. Not sure of the exact count of J&J takers but it looked to be a couple dozen+ people from all age groups with a pretty even male/female split (we only had 100 doses).

[Skidog]

Wife got 2nd pfizer yesterday and woke up at 1 am feeling like crap. Fever, headache and upset tummy. My 2nd one had no effects on me.

Awww yer whittle Tum Tum. Did mommy rub it? Just kidding man. Just thought "tummy" was funny.

Pretty sure you and I skied the bird together on the random June 16" pow day. Set that slide off and closed Peruvian. Good times.

Sent from my Pixel 4a (5G) using TGR Forums mobile app

[XXX-er]

Damned wine.

Not directed at XXX but thought this was funny.

My wife sent me this today. She is an engineer so she gets corrected by men who think they know more than her a lot. Lol.

Also applicable to all the real experts in vaccine/medical/epidemogy dealing with idiots.

https://twitter.com/BrittaniWarrick/...729106944?s=19

Sent from my SM-G981U using Tapatalk

if she is unaware of it your wife might like to adopt the word " Mansplain "

some old fuck backs into GF last week so he jumps out really angry with himself and sez " let me tell you how this is gona go ! "

GF ( think recovering journalist/ feminist/ somewhere to the left of Gloria Steinem ) sez without missing a beat " are you going to manspalin to me how you backed into my car ? "

then a woman walks up from across the lot and sez " I'm a witness, I seen the whole thing, she was stopped when you backed into her so its your fault and her is my ph # "

Its never a good day to back into someone but If buddy had said oops or sorry his ego would still be intact

and me, I have got so good at knowing when to STFU

[The SnowShow]

Wife has such a bad headache, it brought her to tears. Should she take a Tylenol? She’s worried taking it will make the vaccine not as effective. I’m not sure what the current thought on that is.

[Danno]

Wife has such a bad headache, it brought her to tears. Should she take a Tylenol? She’s worried taking it will make the vaccine not as effective. I’m not sure what the current thought on that is.

Everything I have read says don't take stuff in anticipation of potential bad response, but do take stuff if you need it to deal with an actual bad response. Do not suffer; if the headache is bringing her to tears, take some damn tylenol.

[Core Shot]

Wife has such a bad headache, it brought her to tears. Should she take a Tylenol? She’s worried taking it will make the vaccine not as effective. I’m not sure what the current thought on that is.

Tylenol has no effect. I’m only a doctor but no md or do. It’s an inside joke.

But from what I’ve read if you have any concern it’s anti inflammatory drugs like ibuprofen that are up for debate.

Give her Tylenol.

She shouldn’t have to cry through this.

[summit]

Wife has such a bad headache, it brought her to tears. Should she take a Tylenol? She’s worried taking it will make the vaccine not as effective. I’m not sure what the current thought on that is.

There is theoretical reasoning against pre-dosing before the vaccine with Ibuprofen and Tylenol in adults.

There is limited evidence in children against taking NSAIDS within a few hours before/after vaccine administration, but it was suggestive rather than demonstrated reduced efficacy, and outside of that window no evidence against meds AND in multi-dose vaccines, any decrease measurement went away.

I took ibuprofen after my second shot because I felt crappy and needed to work a 12 hour ICU shift. It helped immensely. I wasn't nearly so bad off as your wife.

I'm not your doctor but I will say if you are suffering, the evidence against taking some symptom relief is weak while the benefit is obvious.

Since most people are probably taking meds for their symptoms and real world vaccine efficacy matches the Phase III studies, one might speculate that your wife should take something to make her headache feel better!

[babybear]

my nurse said Tylenol too - no advil/ Ibuprofen.

[GoldMember]

my nurse said Tylenol too - no advil/ Ibuprofen.

^^ This

[Benny Profane]

JFC. The combo of facebook misinformation and dumb conservatives....

So, the question is, why are parents spending so much to send their kids to these schools? Aiming for the Ivy League, dumbasses?

[The SnowShow]

Ok, thanks all!