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  1. #20001
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    Quote Originally Posted by abraham View Post
    I pick and choose my lawyers based solely on on minimal bloviation.
    Iíd settle for one that does some actual work

  2. #20002
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    To Vaccinate or Not---The Rat Flu Odyssey Continues

    I call my father who has been fighting cancer to see how heís doing. He starts ranting about how Covid is no worse than the flu and he might have it now [didnt get the booster on not believing that the vax helps]. Rants that the deaths are no worse than an avg year of flu, other than in people with multiple comorbidities. 3/4 of fatalities I told him that this was false and that even excluding those it still was more than 10x the deaths of annual flu.

    He than asserts that the vax and booster do NOTHING for reducing severity. i tell him go find numbers from any of the states that show the numbers vaxxed vs unvaxxed

    I call his BS.

    He hangs up on me.


    Fucking Trumptarded moron.


    Sent from my iPhone using TGR Forums
    Last edited by Kinnikinnick; 01-19-2022 at 03:01 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Benny Profane View Post
    Keystone is fucking lame. But, deadly.

  3. #20003
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    Quote Originally Posted by altasnob View Post
    Cite, meaning a non pot-smoking, skiing, TGR mag, source. I'm curious if this is a mainstream idea or just something Summit and Old Goat came up with?

    The NYTimes is garbage, as is every news source on the face of the planet. But on the spectrum, they are amongst the least awful. If you can point me to a better news source, I am all ears. In my mind, the biggest problem humanity faces above all other problems is the demise of journalism.

    In my clickbait news world view, I find things like this:

    "We can't vaccinate the planet every four to six months. It's not sustainable or affordable," Professor Andrew Pollard, the director of the Oxford Vaccine Group and head of the UK's Committee on Vaccination and Immunization
    This doesn't get brought up enough, which is the demise of traditional journalism as the money has all but dried up from local newsrooms, and instead now goes to the modern day robber barons for advertising (Google/Alphabet/Amazon).

    Particularly affected is local journalism which used to be the way locals were informed and were able to keep tabs on their elected officials. There's no accountability anymore.

  4. #20004
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    Our local health care system has 750 employees out w/ the 'vid.

    https://www.wjhl.com/local-coronavir...ID%20Wednesday

    Other interesting stats from the CEO.

    Ballad Health’s COVID-19 scorecard released on Wednesday stated that there are 349 COVID-19 patients hospitalized and 70 patients in the COVID-19 intensive care units. Of those hospitalized patients, 86% are unvaccinated against COVID-19. Ballad Health reported that 96% of the ICU patients are unvaccinated.

    In replies to the tweet, Levine answered questions from other users who inquired about the vaccination status of the 750 employees who tested positive. He said 79% of those who were out on Wednesday were vaccinated.

    And the system has given a vaccination date deadline in response to the USCCT opinion.
    In order to properly convert this thread to a polyasshat thread to more fully enrage the liberal left frequenting here...... (insert latest democratic blunder of your choice).

  5. #20005
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kinnikinnick View Post
    I call my father who has been fighting cancer to see how he’s doing. He starts ranting about how Covid is no worse than the flu and he might have it now because he has conjunctivitis. Rants that the deaths are no worse than an avg year of flu, other than in people with multiple comorbidities. 3/4 of fatalities I told him that this was false and that even excluding those it still was more than 10x the deaths of annual flu.

    He than asserts that the vax and booster do NOTHING for reducing severity. i tell him go find numbers from any of the states that show the numbers vaxxed vs unvaxxed

    I call his BS.

    He hangs up on me.


    Fucking Trumptarded moron.


    Sent from my iPhone using TGR Forums
    Don't worry. He's probably equally disappointed in his progeny.

  6. #20006
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    Quote Originally Posted by altasnob View Post
    Cite, meaning a non pot-smoking, skiing, TGR mag, source. I'm curious if this is a mainstream idea or just something Summit and Old Goat came up with?

    The NYTimes is garbage, as is every news source on the face of the planet. But on the spectrum, they are amongst the least awful. If you can point me to a better news source, I am all ears. In my mind, the biggest problem humanity faces above all other problems is the demise of journalism.

    In my clickbait news world view, I find things like this:

    "We can't vaccinate the planet every four to six months. It's not sustainable or affordable," Professor Andrew Pollard, the director of the Oxford Vaccine Group and head of the UK's Committee on Vaccination and Immunization
    And yet, WE ALREADY DO.

    Influenza vaccines are re-formulated each year to account for different strains in circulation without conducting clinical trials to show efficacy against those strains.

    Now I kind of feel like we've been through this many times in this thread alone, but the Influenza vaccine, which is administered every year (6 mos in S. Hemisphere, 6 mos in the N. Hemisphere) comprises 3-4 different virus strains, each with much greater diversity than that observed for the genetic mutations occuring in sars-2 VOC, and is and has been re-formulated over and over again to account for what are the most prevalent strains in circulation each year.

    This year 2 of the 4 strains were swapped out. No bridging studies necessary, just based on surveillance assessing prevalence of what is currently circulating.

    https://www.cdc.gov/flu/season/faq-f...htm#what-virus
    There are many different flu viruses, and they are constantly changing. The composition of US flu vaccines is reviewed annually and updated as needed to match circulating flu viruses. This season, all flu vaccines will be designed to protect against the four viruses that research indicates will be most common. Each year, the Food and Drug Administrationís Vaccines and Related Biological Products Advisory Committee (VRBPAC) makes the recommendation for the flu vaccine composition for US flu vaccines.

    For 2021-2022, recommendations were made for egg-based, cell-based, and recombinant flu vaccines as listed below:
    Egg-based vaccine composition recommendations:
    an A/Victoria/2570/2019 (H1N1) pdm09-like virus;
    an A/Cambodia/e0826360/2020 (H3N2)-like virus;
    a B/Washington/02/2019- like virus (B/Victoria lineage);
    a B/Phuket/3073/2013-like virus (B/Yamagata lineage)

    Cell- or recombinant-based vaccine composition recommendations:
    an A/Wisconsin/588/2019 (H1N1) pdm09-like virus;
    an A/Cambodia/e0826360/2020 (H3N2)-like virus;
    a B/Washington/02/2019- like virus (B/Victoria lineage);
    a B/Phuket/3073/2013-like virus (B/Yamagata lineage).

    These recommendations include two updates compared with 2020-2021 US flu vaccines. Both the influenza A(H1N1) and the influenza A(H3N2) vaccine virus components were updated. Compared with the Southern Hemisphere flu vaccine recommendation, this recommendation represents one update and that is to the influenza A(H3N2) component.
    https://www.fda.gov/vaccines-blood-b...21-2022-season
    FDA's Vaccines and Related Biological Products Advisory Committee (VRBPAC) met in Silver Spring, Maryland, on March 5, 2021, to select the influenza viruses for the composition of the influenza vaccine for the 2021-2022 U.S. influenza season. During this meeting, the advisory committee reviewed and evaluated the surveillance data related to epidemiology and antigenic characteristics of recent influenza isolates, serological responses to 2020-2021 vaccines, and the availability of candidate strains and reagents.

    Influenza virus strains were selected based on the influenza vaccine production method; egg-based and cell- or recombinant based.

    The committee recommended that the quadrivalent formulation of egg-based influenza vaccines for the U.S. 2021-2022 influenza season contain the following:

    an A/Victoria/2570/2019 (H1N1) pdm09-like virus;
    an A/Cambodia/e0826360/2020 (H3N2)-like virus;
    a B/Washington/02/2019- like virus (B/Victoria lineage);
    a B/Phuket/3073/2013-like virus (B/Yamagata lineage).
    https://www.who.int/publications/m/i...fluenza-season
    26 February 2021 Page 1 of 10
    Recommended composition of influenza virus vaccines for use in the 2021-2022 northern hemisphere influenza season
    February 2021
    WHO convenes technical consultations1 in February and September each year to recommend viruses for inclusion in influenza vaccines2 for the northern and southern hemisphere influenza seasons, respectively. This recommendation relates to the influenza vaccines for use in the northern hemisphere 2021-2022 influenza season. A recommendation will be made in September 2021 relating to vaccines that will be used for the southern hemisphere 2022 influenza season. For countries in tropical and subtropical regions, WHO recommendations for influenza vaccine composition (northern hemisphere or southern hemisphere) are available on the WHO Global Influenza Programme website3.
    Seasonal influenza activity
    Public health and laboratory responses to the COVID-19 pandemic, caused by the coronavirus SARS- CoV-2, initially led to reduced influenza surveillance and/or reporting activities in many countries, which have been improving. Additionally, COVID-19 mitigation strategies including restrictions on travel, use of respiratory protection, and social-distancing measures in most countries have contributed to decreased influenza activity. Overall, record-low levels of influenza detections were reported and fewer viruses were available for characterization during the September 2020 to January 2021 time-period than in previous years.
    Between September 2020 and January 2021, influenza A(H1N1)pdm09, A(H3N2) and influenza B viruses circulated in very low numbers and the relative proportions of the viruses circulating varied among reporting countries. Globally, since September 2020, influenza activity was mostly reported from countries in the tropics and subtropics and some countries in the temperate zone of the northern hemisphere. Overall, the percent positivity for influenza viruses in all specimens tested during this period was less than 0.2%. In contrast, the average percent positivity during the same reporting period of the three previous seasons (2017-2020) was 17%.
    In the temperate zone of the northern hemisphere, influenza activity remained far lower than usual for this time of year, with very low-level detections of influenza A and B viruses in reporting countries. In Europe, there were only sporadic detections of influenza A or B viruses. By comparison with previous years, there was a 20% reduction in the number of specimens tested, but a 99% reduction in influenza positive samples. In North America, the percentage of tests that were positive for influenza virus was very low, despite testing at usual or increased levels. The majority of detections were influenza B, and where subtyping was performed, both A(H1N1)pdm09 and A(H3N2) viruses were reported. In Asia, influenza activity was also lower than usual for this time of year. Influenza A and B viruses were detected in most reporting countries with a predominance of influenza B viruses in Afghanistan, China, the Islamic Republic of Iran, and Saudi Arabia. In the Democratic Peopleís Republic of Korea only influenza A viruses were reported, with A(H1N1)pdm09 predominating. Japan reported a slight increase in influenza activity in week 5 of 2021, with a small outbreak of A(H3N2).
    This is done because the approved process for vaccine production doesn't change even as the strains change, along with the added cost and complexity of repeating clinical trials each year.
    Move upside and let the man go through...

  7. #20007
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    Quote Originally Posted by Asspen View Post
    Don't worry. He's probably equally disappointed in his progeny.
    Go back to the other thread and answer my question, intellectual pussy


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    Quote Originally Posted by Benny Profane View Post
    Keystone is fucking lame. But, deadly.

  8. #20008
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kinnikinnick View Post
    I call my fatherÖ
    He than asserts that the vax and booster do NOTHING for reducing severity. i tell him go find numbers from any of the states that show the numbers vaxxed vs unvaxxed

    I call his BS.

    He hangs up on me.


    Fucking Trumptarded moron.


    Sent from my iPhone using TGR Forums
    Vibes man, similar boat here.
    Dad watching Tucker daily.
    Got one does J&J because you know, MRNA stuff is an experiment on us.
    Brother in Philly is moving out with them to AZ end of month. Parents fly out this morning to get stuff loaded into the truck.
    Brother tests positive 3 days ago and is rather sick, despite two shots and a booster.
    In a few hours they are all going to be together.
    Guess my parents get it too.

    Yeah Iím pretty pissed off my parents went down the rabbit hole. Really dumb.

  9. #20009
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mofro261 View Post
    And yet, WE ALREADY DO.

    Influenza vaccines are re-formulated each year to account for different strains in circulation without conducting clinical trials to show efficacy against those strains.

    This is done because the approved process for vaccine production doesn't change even as the strains change, along with the added cost and complexity of repeating clinical trials each year.
    I totally get that we put out flu vaccines every year without clinical trials. And I get that Mofro, Summit, and Old Goat are all saying we should do the same for COVID vaccines. What I am wondering is why this Prof Sir Andrew Pollard guy, who apparently helped make the AstraZeneca vaccine, is telling me he disagrees with the stance of Mofro/Summit/Old Goat, et al?

    When I dig in and try decipher why Sir Pollard thinks this way, I get:

    "We haven't even managed to vaccinate everyone in Africa with one dose so we're certainly not going to get to a point where fourth doses for everyone is manageable."

    He also states that at the current moment, he is not convinced the UK will ever need another booster shot, ever. He qualifies this statement by saying his opinion could change depending on what future variants emerge. And his statement is limited to the situation in the UK, not elsewhere.

  10. #20010
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kinnikinnick View Post
    Go back to the other thread and answer my question, intellectual pussy


    Sent from my iPhone using TGR Forums
    Was that the beginning of your pHD dissertation?

    Your father is disappointed in you. That type of hurt knows no bounds. He probably called you a pussy too, which is why you are slinging the word in my direction, because I bet it hurt...

    All of us here would rather have a beer with, and likely get along better with....Your dad instead of you.

  11. #20011
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    Quote Originally Posted by Buzzworthy View Post
    Vibes man, similar boat here.
    Dad watching Tucker daily.
    Got one does J&J because you know, MRNA stuff is an experiment on us.
    Brother in Philly is moving out with them to AZ end of month. Parents fly out this morning to get stuff loaded into the truck.
    Brother tests positive 3 days ago and is rather sick, despite two shots and a booster.
    In a few hours they are all going to be together.
    Guess my parents get it too.

    Yeah I’m pretty pissed off my parents went down the rabbit hole. Really dumb.
    I won't post the litany of ways I'd like to commiserate because it is political and toxic, but yeah, vibes / brain worms are real.
    j'ai des grands instants de lucididididididididi

  12. #20012
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    Quote Originally Posted by Asspen View Post
    Was that the beginning of your pHD dissertation?

    Your father is disappointed in you. That type of hurt knows no bounds. He probably called you a pussy too, which is why you are slinging the word in my direction, because I bet it hurt...

    All of us here would rather have a beer with, and likely get along better with....Your dad instead of you.
    Nope. Add this to your long list of erroneous posts. And as someone else said you are a giant pussy who runs away when your posts get proven as bullshit.

  13. #20013
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    Quote Originally Posted by Asspen View Post
    Was that the beginning of your pHD dissertation?

    Your father is disappointed in you. That type of hurt knows no bounds. He probably called you a pussy too, which is why you are slinging the word in my direction, because I bet it hurt...

    All of us here would rather have a beer with, and likely get along better with....Your dad instead of you.
    Nice debate points.

    Modís?

    Is this a purely personal attack the likes of which is prohibited?


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    Quote Originally Posted by Benny Profane View Post
    Keystone is fucking lame. But, deadly.

  14. #20014
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    And the worms ate into his brain.

  15. #20015
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    Quote Originally Posted by altasnob View Post
    "We can't vaccinate the planet every four to six months. It's not sustainable or affordable," Professor Andrew Pollard, the director of the Oxford Vaccine Group and head of the UK's Committee on Vaccination and Immunization
    As jono said in different words, the professor is bad at math. 8 billion people * $20/shot = 160B. The world economy is 100T. Further, $20 is the price for an emergency one-off development. A regular updating of an existing vaccine is likely cheaper.

    NYT targets a 6th grade education. 6th graders are also bad at math... and science, and the law, etc.

    Quote Originally Posted by Asspen View Post
    This doesn't get brought up enough, which is the demise of traditional journalism as the money has all but dried up from local newsrooms, and instead now goes to the modern day robber barons for advertising (Google/Alphabet/Amazon).

    Particularly affected is local journalism which used to be the way locals were informed and were able to keep tabs on their elected officials. There's no accountability anymore.
    I expect to be personally attacked for agreeing with Asspen.

  16. #20016
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    Quote Originally Posted by Buzzworthy View Post
    Vibes man, similar boat here.
    Dad watching Tucker daily.
    Got one does J&J because you know, MRNA stuff is an experiment on us.
    Brother in Philly is moving out with them to AZ end of month. Parents fly out this morning to get stuff loaded into the truck.
    Brother tests positive 3 days ago and is rather sick, despite two shots and a booster.
    In a few hours they are all going to be together.
    Guess my parents get it too.

    Yeah Iím pretty pissed off my parents went down the rabbit hole. Really dumb.
    Thanks. I donít mind the differing politics when they are genuine policy but when he starts saying things that are mathematically untrue that have been brainwashed into his brain, I call it out.

    Sad to see peeps that you love and respect fall into BSland.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Benny Profane View Post
    Keystone is fucking lame. But, deadly.

  17. #20017
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    Yep, itís disappointing.

  18. #20018
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    More vibes to the folks with MAGA family. Even my redneck father in law hopped off the trump train when he mocked that handicapped reporter and other assorted childish behavior shitshow events. Dude was a straight up creationist but still listened to doctors over that antivax shitshow. I was pleasantly surprised when he flipped blue in 2016. but only at the top. Straight red down the rest of the ticket of course..

    Hopefully BWs vaxxed brother won't still be contagious by the time the folks get there and one JnJ is better than nothing.

    Honestly hoping that they manage without serious consequences for going there to help.

    Side note. journaling warning... A year ago today I got a call that my mom tested positive and was sent to an elevated care facility... the fucking day before she was scheduled to get vax dose #1. She died on the 23rd. Please get fully vaxxed and wear a decent mask in public indoor spaces around others.
    Go that way really REALLY fast. If something gets in your way, TURN!

  19. #20019
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    Quote Originally Posted by LongShortLong View Post
    NYT targets a 6th grade education. 6th graders are also bad at math... and science, and the law, etc.

    I expect to be personally attacked for agreeing with Asspen.
    there’s no accountability because we generally don’t want to hold people in positions of power accountable, not because a lack of journalist scrutiny. And I’d argue part of that is because we are overwhelmed by information and so more focused on a vague narrative which can require tremendous effort to shift; covid didn’t move the meter much. That narrative can be on the order of a first grade conspiracy theory of how the world works e.g “fauci is bad because he conspired with the Chinese to launch a super virus”

  20. #20020
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    Quote Originally Posted by LongShortLong View Post
    As jono said in different words, the professor is bad at math. 8 billion people * $20/shot = 160B. The world economy is 100T. Further, $20 is the price for an emergency one-off development. A regular updating of an existing vaccine is likely cheaper.

    NYT targets a 6th grade education. 6th graders are also bad at math... and science, and the law, etc.



    I expect to be personally attacked for agreeing with Asspen.
    Pretty sure he's quoting/plagerizing a recent Seattle Time op ed. I'd agree with him if he said meat prices are up and the rent is too dam high and that's about it.
    A few people feel the rain. Most people just get wet.

  21. #20021
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    Quote Originally Posted by altasnob View Post
    I totally get that we put out flu vaccines every year without clinical trials. And I get that Mofro, Summit, and Old Goat are all saying we should do the same for COVID vaccines. What I am wondering is why this Prof Sir Andrew Pollard guy, who apparently helped make the AstraZeneca vaccine, is telling me he disagrees with the stance of Mofro/Summit/Old Goat, et al?

    When I dig in and try decipher why Sir Pollard thinks this way, I get:

    "We haven't even managed to vaccinate everyone in Africa with one dose so we're certainly not going to get to a point where fourth doses for everyone is manageable."

    He also states that at the current moment, he is not convinced the UK will ever need another booster shot, ever. He qualifies this statement by saying his opinion could change depending on what future variants emerge. And his statement is limited to the situation in the UK, not elsewhere.
    You are confused again. I'm not talking a 4th dose, but a shift in antigenic coverage such that vaccines administered going forward as boosters, AND coverage for 3rd world countries can increase in efficacy towards the relevant circulating strains, isn't out of the question and is entirely plausible.

    Many who focus on vaccines,global health,and infectious disease, not just those with science and medical training here on the tgrs, agree.

    https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-021-02854-3
    COVID vaccine makers brace for a variant worse than Delta

    Pfizer’s chief executive, Albert Bourla, made a bold promise in June. Standing next to US President Joe Biden at a press conference in St Ives, UK, just before the G7 summit meeting, Bourla said that should the need arise for a new COVID-19 vaccine, his company could get one ready within 100 days.

    The need he was referring to is the possible emergence of an ‘escape variant’ — a dominant strain of SARS-CoV-2 that evades the fledgling immunity established through vaccines and previous infections. No such strain has yet been identified, but Pfizer and other leading COVID-19 vaccine makers are gearing up for that scenario.


    What does it take to be nimble enough to design and test an updated vaccine against an unknown viral strain, in record time? Nature spoke to three COVID-19 vaccine makers — Pfizer, Moderna and AstraZeneca — to find out exactly how they are preparing.


    Dress rehearsal
    Over the past few months, all three companies have been running dress rehearsals by practising on known SARS-CoV-2 variants. This involves updating their vaccines to match variants such as Beta and Delta, testing them in clinical studies, tuning their internal workflows and coordinating with regulators. Their goal is to learn from these warm-up trials and smooth out kinks in their processes, so that they can move fast if, or when, a true escape variant emerges.


    “At some point, inevitably, we’re going to have to make variant vaccines — if vaccines are the way population immunity will be maintained — but we’re not at the point where we can confidently predict the evolution of the virus,” says Paul Bieniasz, a virologist at the Rockefeller University in New York City. “Practising with existing variants seems like a reasonable approach.”

    Also, see Prof Andrew Pollard- "If indeed we do have ongoing problems with more severe disease, updated vaccines for the new variants may be one of the ways we manage living with the virus in the future."
    Move upside and let the man go through...

  22. #20022
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mofro261 View Post
    You are confused again. I'm not talking a 4th dose, but a shift in antigenic coverage such that vaccines administered going forward as boosters, AND coverage for 3rd world countries can increase in efficacy towards the relevant circulating strains, isn't out of the question and is entirely plausible.

    Many who focus on vaccines,global health,and infectious disease, not just those with science and medical training here on the tgrs, agree.

    Also, see Prof Andrew Pollard- "If indeed we do have ongoing problems with more severe disease, updated vaccines for the new variants may be one of the ways we manage living with the virus in the future."
    Ok, all that seams smart. But better start smoothing over the idea of releasing (and presumably mandating) new mRNA COVID vaccines without any clinical trials to the 33% of Americans who remain unvaccinated (but eligible). If they scoff a the OG vaccine as wacky, untested, science, think of their response when they are told they have to shoot up with something that hasn't even gone through a clinical trial. Also have to figure out how to get Africa's vaccination rate above 7%, or all of this discussion seems meaningless.

    I don't have an opinion on this issue. Just trying to understand the debate. But I could see people who favor sticking with the original vaccine arguing that we've already had a hard enough time convincing the world to get this thing, let's not bombard them with new shots. I assume, say, 90% of the planet having the original vaccine is better than, say, 50% having the original and another 15% of the wealthy world getting their taylor made designer vaccine booster every six months.

  23. #20023
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    Pretty sure they already release new flu vaccines every year without full three stage clinical trials each iteration/annual change..
    Go that way really REALLY fast. If something gets in your way, TURN!

  24. #20024
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    Imagine if George Washington had tried to inoculate troops without a double blind placebo controlled trial. Bet we'd have lost the war.

  25. #20025
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    Quote Originally Posted by jono View Post
    Imagine if George Washington had tried to inoculate troops without a double blind placebo controlled trial. Bet we'd have lost the war.
    You did lose the war, the French saved your ass.


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