To Vaccinate or Not---The Rat Flu Odyssey Continues

[Bunion 2020]

The average American woman is 5'3 165? Not to contribute to anyone's body dysmorphia but maybe Biden should send every American some running shoes. WTF.

And a German shepherd to chase them and make em run?

[Mofro261]

This is fascinating to me. I haven't read anyone suggesting this, other than Summit. To play devils advocate, sounds like you are proposing we identify emerging COVID variants, or maybe even guess what variants will emerge, and then rapidly deploy a mRNA booster shot to the masses tailored to the novel variant. As if we can eliminate all disease from Earth, no matter how mild that disease. But it begs the question, what if disease serves an important purpose?

You clearly don't follow actual science.

Universal coronavirus vaccines have always been part of that discussion. Influenza even more so.

[wkd-rdr]

As if we can eliminate all disease from Earth, no matter how mild that disease.

I've heard no one suggests this, except Altasnab

[altasnob]

You clearly don't follow actual science.

Universal coronavirus vaccines have always been part of that discussion. Influenza even more so.

I don't. I read NYTimes and Atlantic religiously. Oh, and I suck Trevor Bedford's dick because unlike most scientist who are pompous with sticks up their ass, he actually shares his thoughts with the masses via his twitter feed.

that 3 phases of trials for a minor adjustment is overkill. Particularly when the risk of delay is greater than the risk of moving forward. Do a phase I, establish safety, and get the adjusted version out.

It's not the universal vaccine that appears novel to me. It's proposing they waive (or shorten) clinical trials to get variant tailored booster shots to the masses quickly. Is this being discussed? If so, please provide cite.

From my reading, it still appears the majority of scientist and policy makers in the world believe sticking with the OG vaccine going forward is the best course of action. This is not because a variant tailored vaccine isn't effective. It is because today, it is not realistic to be able to vaccinate the world with a new vaccine every six months.

[Danno]

As a lawyer, I try to learn the medical science from the medical and scientific professionals, because duh, I'm a lawyer.

As a lawyer, altasnob tries to critique them. FFS.

[skaredshtles]

The average 65yo American woman is 5'3 165? Not to contribute to anyone's body dysmorphia but maybe Biden should send every American some running shoes. WTF.

Fixed.

[jono]

As a lawyer, I try to learn the medical science from the medical and scientific professionals, because duh, I'm a lawyer.

As a lawyer, altasnob tries to critique them. FFS.

To be fair, it seems like the lawyerly part that he screwed up the best. Scientist says that travel bans may have influenced spread and evolutionary conditions and changes may change that. Altasnob says that means they don't work. If this bassackwardness works on juries we've got bigger problems than a disease.

[SumJongGuy]

They discuss Oxford's COVID risk culator: https://qcovid.org/Home/

"A typical 65-year-old American woman — to take one example — is five foot three inches tall and weighs 166 pounds. If she had been vaccinated and did not have a major Covid risk factor, like an organ transplant, her chance of dying after contracting Covid would be 1 in 872, according to the calculator. For a typical 65-year-old man, the risk would be 1 in 434.

Among 75-year-olds, the risk would be 1 in 264 for a typical woman and 1 in 133 for a typical man.

Those are meaningful risks. But they are not larger than many other risks older people face. In the 2019-20 flu season, about 1 out of every 138 Americans 65 and older who had flu symptoms died from them, according to the C.D.C.

No brainer that old people are more likely to die but those numbers feel a bit high. Might be true of folks hospitalized for flu but there must be more old folks who get flu and ride it out at home just fine unreported. Also, is there a breakdown of flu vax vs no flu vax? I mean after all if we're comparing COVID vax surviving COVID to flu shouldn't we be using flu vax surviving flu?

[ex-powderbroker]

Fixed.

Ha, thanks for that!

[XXX-er]

The average American woman is 5'3 165? Not to contribute to anyone's body dysmorphia but maybe Biden should send every American some running shoes. WTF.

5' 3" 165 is a bmi of 29.2

only .5 away from obese so virtualy obese,

some one needs to take away the forks

[Summit]

I'm not going to put so many words in Summit's mouth, but I see him suggesting the and kind of thing that had been suggested numerous times before: that 3 phases of trials for a minor adjustment is overkill. Particularly when the risk of delay is greater than the risk of moving forward. Do a phase I, establish safety, and get the adjusted version out.

This is what I was speaking to.

[ex-powderbroker]

5' 3" 165 is a bmi of 29.2

only .5 away from obese so virtualy obese,

some one needs to take away the forks

turns out that in my skimming of altasnob's posts i missed that they were 65 years old. It still seems like a likely contributor to all of the heart disease that is so common in women these days. Maybe they can prancercise?

[Summit]

Prevailing thought is that omicron gives you immunity perhaps for a few months. Does this mean that in highly infected locations, masks are no longer necessary?

If you are asking "is there herd immunity?" well the answer for something as contagious as Omicron is that you need >90% of people to be immune. That is, of course, why MMR, covering similarly contagious diseases, is a mandatory vaccine to attend school because we want vaccine uptake >>90%.

Using the word "necessary" is loaded. To me, necessary could have an individual health connotation (are you high risk or in a high risk setting without certain immunity) vs public health policy (are transmission controls needed to preserve healthcare and economic function in a community).

[dunfree]

Some good stuff in the NYTimes this morning:

"Since early last week, new cases in Connecticut, Maryland, New Jersey and New York have fallen by more than 30 percent. They’re down by more than 10 percent in Colorado, Florida, Georgia, Massachusetts and Pennsylvania. In California, cases may have peaked."

"If anything, the official Covid numbers probably understate the actual declines, because test results are often a few days behind reality."

They discuss Oxford's COVID risk culator: https://qcovid.org/Home/

"A typical 65-year-old American woman — to take one example — is five foot three inches tall and weighs 166 pounds. If she had been vaccinated and did not have a major Covid risk factor, like an organ transplant, her chance of dying after contracting Covid would be 1 in 872, according to the calculator. For a typical 65-year-old man, the risk would be 1 in 434.

Among 75-year-olds, the risk would be 1 in 264 for a typical woman and 1 in 133 for a typical man.

Those are meaningful risks. But they are not larger than many other risks older people face. In the 2019-20 flu season, about 1 out of every 138 Americans 65 and older who had flu symptoms died from them, according to the C.D.C.

And Omicron probably presents less risk than the British calculator suggests, because it uses data through the first half of 2021, when the dominant version of Covid was more severe than Omicron appears to be."

Pretty fucking dishonest to compare overall risk with the risk of people with flu symptoms, but that’s your jam.

[wooley12]

5' 3" 165 is a bmi of 29.2

only .5 away from obese so virtualy obese,

some one needs to take away the forks

Fat people were bread and butter for me in my working career. Your "solution" is not the answer. BTW, my sister is very obese and has lung issues. She got Covid for Christmas and survived it like it was a bad cold thanks to being fully vaxed. Get the pokeand don't breathe on me is all I ask of anyone.

[altasnob]

Pretty fucking dishonest to compare overall risk with the risk of people with flu symptoms, but that’s your jam.

It's not my jam, it's the NYTimes' jam:

https://www.nytimes.com/2022/01/19/b...ant-cases.html

[abraham]

Oh, and I suck Trevor Bedford's dick because unlike most scientist who are pompous with sticks up their ass, he actually shares his thoughts with the masses via his twitter feed.

I pick and choose my lawyers based solely on on minimal bloviation.

[altasnob]

As a lawyer, I try to learn the medical science from the medical and scientific professionals, because duh, I'm a lawyer.

As a lawyer, altasnob tries to critique them. FFS.

Use your mad lawyering skills to answer my question:

"It's not the universal vaccine that appears novel to me. It's proposing they waive (or shorten) clinical trials to get variant tailored booster shots to the masses quickly. Is this being discussed? If so, please provide cite."

[XXX-er]

turns out that in my skimming of altasnob's posts i missed that they were 65 years old. It still seems like a likely contributor to all of the heart disease that is so common in women these days. Maybe they can prancercise?

or perhaps a rousing game of pickle ball ?

on the chair I was talking to my buddy the OR nurse/ skier/ runner/ ww paddler about our respective ACL issues and he said said the biggest deal he see's every day IS overweight & sedentary

[XXX-er]

Fat people were bread and butter for me in my working career. Your "solution" is not the answer. BTW, my sister is very obese and has lung issues. She got Covid for Christmas and survived it like it was a bad cold thanks to being fully vaxed. Get the pokeand don't breathe on me is all I ask of anyone.

Sounds like too much bread & butter to me ?

which came 1st the obese or the lung issues,

do all obese people have lung issues or just a lot more health issues in general, does north america have an obesity problem ?

I think that trump fella had the right idea, if you just don't ask the question the probelem will go away

[schuss]

Prevailing thought is that omicron gives you immunity perhaps for a few months. Does this mean that in highly infected locations, masks are no longer necessary?

No. Because the number of vulnerable is not 0 and if they don't have meaningful vaccination rates it will still kill people or make them sick.

[jono]

Use your mad lawyering skills to answer my question:

"It's not the universal vaccine that appears novel to me. It's proposing they waive (or shorten) clinical trials to get variant tailored booster shots to the masses quickly. Is this being discussed? If so, please provide cite."

Better idea: search, JONG. Old goat was suggesting that kind of stuff in like April or May of 2020. When you find it, please inform your friends at the NYT. As one of their last readers, you must have some pull over there.

(By some mad coincidence it seems to be you and every dyed in the wool cultist I know IRL who are still checking the NYT's clickbait headlines on the daily. Or maybe that's not a coincidence, what do I know?)

[Harry]

If you are asking "is there herd immunity?" well the answer for something as contagious as Omicron is that you need >90% of people to be immune. That is, of course, why MMR, covering similarly contagious diseases, is a mandatory vaccine to attend school because we want vaccine uptake >>90%.

Using the word "necessary" is loaded. To me, necessary could have an individual health connotation (are you high risk or in a high risk setting without certain immunity) vs public health policy (are transmission controls needed to preserve healthcare and economic function in a community).

Info like this is why I come to this thread.


Sent from my iPad using TGR Forums

[altasnob]

Better idea: search, JONG. Old goat was suggesting that kind of stuff in like April or May of 2020. When you find it, please inform your friends at the NYT. As one of their last readers, you must have some pull over there.

(By some mad coincidence it seems to be you and every dyed in the wool cultist I know IRL who are still checking the NYT's clickbait headlines on the daily. Or maybe that's not a coincidence, what do I know?)

Cite, meaning a non pot-smoking, skiing, TGR mag, source. I'm curious if this is a mainstream idea or just something Summit and Old Goat came up with?

The NYTimes is garbage, as is every news source on the face of the planet. But on the spectrum, they are amongst the least awful. If you can point me to a better news source, I am all ears. In my mind, the biggest problem humanity faces above all other problems is the demise of journalism.

In my clickbait news world view, I find things like this:

"We can't vaccinate the planet every four to six months. It's not sustainable or affordable," Professor Andrew Pollard, the director of the Oxford Vaccine Group and head of the UK's Committee on Vaccination and Immunization

[jono]

And you contribute to that daily. I'm beginning to understand.