To Vaccinate or Not---The Rat Flu Odyssey Continues

[old goat]

To be fair to the govts, desire for testing has increased DRAMATICALLY in the last week or two. I was in NYC over Thanksgiving and was looking for testing, and there were tons of options. I don't know that it is fair to indict them all for the hudge increase in testing.

Someone on NPR was explaining that one reason there hasn't been enough testing is that demand has fluctuated wildly, which it makes it economically unfeasible for companies to ramp up production to meet peak demand. Which is why the govt should be subsidizing companies to make tests, and N95's and to maintain the capacity to meet peak demand for this pandemic and the next. We don't have a good mechanism in this country to do this--which would be "socialism", unlike the mechanism we have to pay farmers not to grow, which is "something other than socialism." Even if there were subsidies, hiring workers to increase test production when demand peaks is not quite like hiring elves at the mall for xmas.

[jono]

Someone on NPR was explaining that one reason there hasn't been enough testing is that demand has fluctuated wildly, which it makes it economically unfeasible for companies to ramp up production to meet peak demand. Which is why the govt should be subsidizing companies to make tests, and N95's and to maintain the capacity to meet peak demand for this pandemic and the next. We don't have a good mechanism in this country to do this--which would be "socialism", unlike the mechanism we have to pay farmers not to grow, which is "something other than socialism." Even if there were subsidies, hiring workers to increase test production when demand peaks is not quite like hiring elves at the mall for xmas.

"Strategic reserve"

[Falcon3]

I have zero insight but thought this post from reddit on the topic was shareworthy:

"Surprise:It’s made of tobasco sauce and Mountain Dew."

My thought was “how did they cram clean socks and ibuprofen into a shot?”

[skaredshtles]

"Strategic reserve"

I mean, if Canuckistan can have strategic reserve of maple syrup, why the FUCK can't we have one for PPE?

[jono]

I mean, if Canuckistan can have strategic reserve of maple syrup, why the FUCK can't we have one for PPE?

Exactly. So many things to reserve and all we've managed so far is some black goo. It's embarrassing.

[Mofro261]

Anyone that didnt barely pass first year science classes care to comment on the new vaccine from the US Army?

https://thehill.com/policy/defense/a...ariants-report

I'm going to say this will likely end up going nowhere. The Army is using a protein-subunit vaccine approach here, using a gene fusion between the Sars-CoV-2 Spike protein and a Ferritin protein. The Ferritin monomer is part of a self-assembling multi-subunit complex, and forms a 24-subunit particle in solution with a 3-fold axis of symmetry. The end product is a protein-nanoparticle that should contain 8 Spike trimers protruding from the surface of the 24mer-ferritin sphere.

This sort of platform is amenable to mixing and matching different Spike proteins attached to ferritin to make a protein nanoparticle vaccine that includes Spikes from multiple coronaviruses. But each one would still need to be expressed independently and then mixed to form the ferritin particle which adds cost and complexity to the basic design.

Protein nanoparticles (and the similar virus-like particles) tend to be highly immunogenic partly due to the repetitive nature of the epitopes being displayed and increased size, so the design concept is sound. Practically speaking however, looking at the reported expression and yields (most only achieving ~5 mg/L of cell culture) means they will face massive issues with production and scale, and then right now it's still just with the Wuhan-1 version of the Spike.

Where it gets interesting and the potential for broadened immune repsonses likely is coming from imo, is the co-formulation of the SpFN with the army's version of the GSK adjuvant AS02, which is a lipid formulation that includes immunomodulating compounds QS21 (a saponin) and MPL (the active ingredient from gram neg bacteria that is repsonsible for sepsis). When I was working on this ~8-10yrs ago we often saw increased breadth of response and protection against drifted flu strains using similiar adjuvant formulations, in another quest for developing universal flu vaccines.

[2bjenny]

and Texas Walker Ranger is still on the air? Really?

It has been “reimagined” on the CW, never seen it.

[XXX-er]

I mean, if Canuckistan can have strategic reserve of maple syrup, why the FUCK can't we have one for PPE?

" Marketing boards " and french people, Quebecois not the real ones

[Danno]

I'm going to say this will likely end up going nowhere. The Army is using a protein-subunit vaccine approach here, using a gene fusion between the Sars-CoV-2 Spike protein and a Ferritin protein. The Ferritin monomer is part of a self-assembling multi-subunit complex, and forms a 24-subunit particle in solution with a 3-fold axis of symmetry. The end product is a protein-nanoparticle that should contain 8 Spike trimers protruding from the surface of the 24mer-ferritin sphere.

This sort of platform is amenable to mixing and matching different Spike proteins attached to ferritin to make a protein nanoparticle vaccine that includes Spikes from multiple coronaviruses. But each one would still need to be expressed independently and then mixed to form the ferritin particle which adds cost and complexity to the basic design.

Protein nanoparticles (and the similar virus-like particles) tend to be highly immunogenic partly due to the repetitive nature of the epitopes being displayed and increased size, so the design concept is sound. Practically speaking however, looking at the reported expression and yields (most only achieving ~5 mg/L of cell culture) means they will face massive issues with production and scale, and then right now it's still just with the Wuhan-1 version of the Spike.

Where it gets interesting and the potential for broadened immune repsonses likely is coming from imo, is the co-formulation of the SpFN with the army's version of the GSK adjuvant AS02, which is a lipid formulation that includes immunomodulating compounds QS21 (a saponin) and MPL (the active ingredient from gram neg bacteria that is repsonsible for sepsis). When I was working on this ~8-10yrs ago we often saw increased breadth of response and protection against drifted flu strains using similiar adjuvant formulations, in another quest for developing universal flu vaccines.

I was just about to say that, but you beat me to it!

[The Tortoise]

My cats breath smells like cat food.

[old goat]

I mean, if Canuckistan can have strategic reserve of maple syrup, why the FUCK can't we have one for PPE?

Shelf life. PPE--at least N95's--and tests have a limited shelf life. Whether that means the items degrade over time or just that they haven't been tested beyond the labeled shelf life I have no idea. Certainly there should be a reserve but there would still need to be the capacity to produce large numbers of new items quickly.

Seems to me that with the likelihood of future respiratory pandemics there is a need for a reusable N95 design that people could own, like gas-masks during the Battle of Britain. Something similar to N95's in bulk but with more durable, easily cleanable materials. And even if there is never another pandemic you never know when you might need to grind a floor full of self-levelling compound. And as far as tests--stored tests would be useless against the next pandemic unless the virus was similar.

[DougW]

....

Getting out of rogers pass I mentioned to Bro I should text the significant other to say we are safe

he said " dude statistically we are way more likely to get killed on the drive home than in rogers pass "

She did send a text that morning its just I didn't see it and all I had to do was get on a heli and bum a ride home. She knew she didn't need to pick me up on hwy.

I agree the ride home from Rogers / heather mnt is pretty sporty.

[jono]

Shelf life. PPE--at least N95's--and tests have a limited shelf life. Whether that means the items degrade over time or just that they haven't been tested beyond the labeled shelf life I have no idea. Certainly there should be a reserve but there would still need to be the capacity to produce large numbers of new items quickly.

Seems to me that with the likelihood of future respiratory pandemics there is a need for a reusable N95 design that people could own, like gas-masks during the Battle of Britain. Something similar to N95's in bulk but with more durable, easily cleanable materials. And even if there is never another pandemic you never know when you might need to grind a floor full of self-levelling compound. And as far as tests--stored tests would be useless against the next pandemic unless the virus was similar.

PM riser3. Unless, living in the western US, you are familiar with the P100?

If the feds issued RFP's for, say, an N98 that survives storage temps from 10-50 C for fifteen years in sealed packaging they'd get plenty of takers. And 3M could argue it into 4 year N95's instead. Win-win?

[ötzi]

First letter to the editor, and to the community commissioners

Thank you, County Commissioners, for your time.

My name is Supergaper...

Good letter and thanks for writing it, good luck with the recall.

[liv2ski]

Yeah, I thought I'd be smart. Get it at noon and power through any side effects till bedtime. Second shot killed me for a day, first was no effects whatsoever.

Woke up well-rested today and feeling good. Getting progressively shittier as the day goes on which isn't helping my end of year give a fuck-o-meter.

The Pfizer shots didn't really rattle my cage, but the Moderna boaster had me feeling like shit all day, so I stayed in bed to rest. Just had some dinner and a glass of wine. Now I feel better, but not 100%.

[joetron]

Exactly. So many things to reserve and all we've managed so far is some black goo. It's embarrassing.

Hey man, we’ve also got a strategic helium reserve because if we run out of party balloons the clowns will kill us all.


Sent from my iPhone using TGR Forums

[Thaleia]

The Pfizer shots didn't really rattle my cage, but the Moderna boaster had me feeling like shit all day, so I stayed in bed to rest. Just had some dinner and a glass of wine. Now I feel better, but not 100%.

Different shots, but similar reaction. Yesterdays Pfizer booster had me feeling a bit off this morning, and got worse throughout the day.. Just feeling out of, slight brain fog and a headache that would come and go. Napped in the late afternoon, woke up feeling the same. Had a big dinner and feeling significantly better. Still have near-worrying levels of brain fog. Typing is pretty impaired, I'm spelling words so poorly spell checker is guessing completely different words in some cases lol.

[The Suit]

First letter to the editor, and to the community commissioners

...

Though a fantastic friend, skier, movie producer, and businessman, Commissioner Epstein is not, to the best of my knowledge, a doctor, biostatistician, virologist, or epidemiologist. With his votes against the appointment of Dr. Riddell and accepting state grant money for vaccines I can only think now that he is a clear and present danger to health and well-being of Teton County.

Commissioner Greg Epstein should be recalled immediately.

Best,

Supergaper

Check out Gloria Esguerra Courser's facebook page if you want a taste of the maximum level anti mask and anti vax Commissioner Epstein, former executive producer at TGR, ascribes to. We were guests at each other's weddings, but he has gone full crazy.

Hey vaccine buddy -- sorry you had to write that, but thank you. I haven't talked to Greg in years, but I never would have predicted this.

[XXX-er]

Hey man, we’ve also got a strategic helium reserve because if we run out of party balloons the clowns will kill us all.


Sent from my iPhone using TGR Forums

And where are the clowns

send in the clowns

Don't bother they're here

[jono]

Hey man, we’ve also got a strategic helium reserve because if we run out of party balloons the clowns will kill us all.

Figures we'd keep a supply of the 2nd lightest gas. Why not a few million gallons of Aunt Jemima, too? What are we, Pepsi? Avis? Canaduh? No. Shit. That can't be right.

[riser4]

My cats breath smells like cat food.

And my dog's breath smells like cat poop.

[riser4]

UVM announced a booster requirement today. Awesome! Thing #2 was swearing and slamming things around a little when he got the news. I let him have his little tantrum. He's the one that my wife flipped her shit on about getting vaxxed if you recall. I'm gonna leave him alone and let my wife take this one

[subtle plague]

And my dog's breath smells like cat poop.

Do they have a small cat&dog barn?

[Percy Rideout]

Booster Battle Time:

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/12/18/u...americans.html

"Of American adults who are fully vaccinated, only about 30 percent have received a booster, according to data from the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention. And among all Americans, only about one in six has received a booster."

https://www.webmd.com/vaccines/covid...20study%20said.

Data shows that vaccine efficacy drops significantly after 6 months depending on the cocktail you took. Considering most got their first shots in April/May of last year, they should be considered unvaccinated at this point if they didn't get the boost.

When does the hammer drop on these unboosted holdouts? These people should not be allowed inside at this point in NYC and Chicago considering their mandates, but they are. When does that change?

Edit: If only 1 in 6 Americans have received a booster, and the others are over 6 months out on their last shot. Doesn't that make us 83% unvaccinated in the USA?

[altasnob]

If only 1 in 6 Americans have received a booster, and the others are over 6 months out on their last shot. Doesn't that make us 83% unvaccinated in the USA?

Yes, you could frame it like that. But booster mandates are not necessary (for now) as most of America only became booster eligible in the last couple of weeks. And booster appointments are often booked weeks out right now. So for now, demand is outpacing supply. When that inverts, I could see booster mandates enter the equation.

Atlantic science writer Ed Yong had a good way of thinking about booster protection: Fully boosted to Omicron is like 2 dose to Delta. 2 dose to Omicron is like 1 dose to Delta. 1 dose to Omicron is like unvaccinated to Delta.