To Vaccinate or Not---The Rat Flu Odyssey Continues

**The AD** · 12-17-2021, 11:33 AM

Originally Posted by Danno

wait, 61 of 64 in the hospital are UNvaccinated, yet the hospital is urging people to get vaccinated to prevent staff burnout? And you think people are out of line to complain about the hospital's urgings? I dunno, it seems pretty hypocritical of a hospital to be saying "hey, people, get vaccinated so that we don't have to work so hard" while the vast majority of the hospital's employees aren't vaccinated.

I'm presuming he's talking about patients, not staff.

**uglymoney** · 12-17-2021, 11:33 AM

Originally Posted by Danno

wait, 61 of 64 in the hospital are UNvaccinated, yet the hospital is urging people to get vaccinated to prevent staff burnout? And you think people are out of line to complain about the hospital's urgings? I dunno, it seems pretty hypocritical of a hospital to be saying "hey, people, get vaccinated so that we don't have to work so hard" while the vast majority of the hospital's employees aren't vaccinated.

I'm talking patients. Both our hospitals have employee mandates.

Jesus, I thought I was in some sort of brain warp until I figured out what Danno was saying.

I went back and gave it an 11th edit. Not done yet. More edits after my nap.

**skiJ** · 12-17-2021, 11:35 AM

Originally Posted by bennymac

Extremely complicated situation and teletech “sees both sides”.

Well that’s your problem right there^

Thank you. ... I laughed - skiJ

**The AD** · 12-17-2021, 11:35 AM

teletech seems to adhere to the philosophy that if you say something enough it's going to become true.

**Buster Highmen** · 12-17-2021, 11:39 AM

Originally Posted by ::: :::

You said it nicer than i would have

I'm giving 'less clumsy' a go. Does it make my posts look fat?

**Ted Striker** · 12-17-2021, 11:41 AM

Originally Posted by uglymoney

It is like arguing with someone about what color a clear blue sky is. No point.

Shit could not be more obvious.

It is a cult.

It's a cult alright

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**Danno** · 12-17-2021, 11:49 AM

Originally Posted by uglymoney

I'm talking patients. Both our hospitals have employee mandates.

Jesus, I thought I was in some sort of brain warp until I figured out what Danno was saying.

I went back and gave it an 11th edit. Not done yet. More edits after my nap.

lol

I may be a bit slow, sorry for that. I thought your were talking employees.

**Skistack** · 12-17-2021, 11:52 AM

Someone with more time on their hands than me should calculate the net loss of Republican voters by state.

**XXX-er** · 12-17-2021, 11:55 AM

Originally Posted by uglymoney

3 of 64 have the vaccine. I always have to edit my posts 1000 times to get them to sorta make sense.

at least I can blame that ^^ kind of thing on the Tolulene exposure

so my takaway is that almost everyone in ICU is unvaxinated ?

**funkendrenchman** · 12-17-2021, 11:55 AM

Looks like no vax for 2-5 year old until summer.

In a trial, Pfizer-BioNTech’s low-dose shot did not provoke an adequate immune response in 2- to 5-year-olds.

https://www.nytimes.com/live/2021/12...icron-vaccines

**Garbowski** · 12-17-2021, 12:18 PM

The JJ and AZ vaccines seem to be linked to rare cases of 'thrombosis with thrombocytopenia syndrome.' Seems like both thrombosis and thrombocytopenia are well known side effects of actually having COVID. Is what we are seeing just the tail ends of the COVID-like reactions in the vaccinated, or is this something completely different than what the COVID patients get? In the most simplistic terms I would think if the vaccine fucks you up with symptoms similar to the disease, you would have been truly fucked had you actually got it.

**bodywhomper** · 12-17-2021, 01:22 PM

Originally Posted by teletech

When the cdc is putting up radio ads that the vaccine is 90% effective at preventing infection. Just heard another ad ten minutes ago. Then you see what is happening in the nba 95% vaxxed and nhl 99+% vaxxed where between 30 and 50% of the Vaccinated players depending on team are testing positive. Either the numbers are wrong or all the athletes are lying about their vax status. Which is more likely. Try to spin it however you like, The numbers dont add up.

Can you share the cdc radio ad? I found these cdc videos: https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019...Date%3A%3Adesc

**bobz** · 12-17-2021, 02:15 PM

Originally Posted by Skistack

Someone with more time on their hands than me should calculate the net loss of Republican voters by state.

I did note a couple of months ago that Florida's Covid deaths had exceeded Gov DeSantis's margin of victory. That said, this factor is probably noise compared to various other factors, such as how many of the flakier voters for each side show up for any given election.

**bennymac** · 12-17-2021, 02:17 PM

The more antivaxxers there are the less antivaxxers there are.

**SumJongGuy** · 12-17-2021, 02:37 PM

Originally Posted by bennymac

The more antivaxxers there are the less antivaxxers there are.

Hahaha I laughed.. going to hell but not before they do...

**AK47bp** · 12-17-2021, 02:42 PM

Originally Posted by teletech

When the cdc is putting up radio ads that the vaccine is 90% effective at preventing infection. Just heard another ad ten minutes ago. Then you see what is happening in the nba 95% vaxxed and nhl 99+% vaxxed where between 30 and 50% of the Vaccinated players depending on team are testing positive. Either the numbers are wrong or all the athletes are lying about their vax status. Which is more likely. Try to spin it however you like, The numbers dont add up.

99.9% of America does not essentially live in groups of 50 twenty something year old dudes, sweating, breathing, exercising, sharing locker rooms, planes and busses, partying, etc. all together.

One guy gets it and they all get it.

Sent from my iPhone using TGR Forums

**LongShortLong** · 12-17-2021, 03:43 PM

altasnob's Math and assumptions look fine to me. A few months ago I was going to post something similar, along with an estimate of how long till we reach herd immunity, I also found a CDC report that used the 4x number. A National Academy of Sciences report used 2x. Both said these multipliers are uncertain, as altasnob noted. The reasoning about how many of the natural cases to assign to the vaxxed / unvaxxed is also fine and has uncertainties. So the 72 million guess is fine. My guess is 4x is too high, so the Covid naive population is larger.

If 72 million is correct, we could guess that about 80% of us have some level of immunity. We could correct this using estimates of actual immunity for the various combinations of vaxxed and infected (e.g. if vax or infection tend to provide 70% protection, then the estimated immunity becomes 70% of 80% equals 56%). Once we've calculated a current estimated population immunity, we can compare that to herd immunity estimates to see how close we are. The current vax and infection rates can then project when we reach herd immunity (or if it is possible with current countermeasures). Keeping in mind that we need to exceed the herd immunity threshold for cases to decline. Also keeping in mind that a heterogeneous population may spread disease better then the homogeneous population assumed in the herd immunity theory.

My understanding is I'm supposed to call altasnob a silly name. Sorry can't think of one. Related, there's this notion that we must condemn anyone with a different pandemic POV. Humans die on strange emotional hills. Some day the pandemic will pass, and many of these people can be forgiven then and are otherwise fine friends. For now, the unreasonable ones ought to stay away

**rideit** · 12-17-2021, 07:29 PM

Bring it on, Omicron, we ain’t skeered

https://www.livescience.com/breakthr...immunity-boost

**XXX-er** · 12-17-2021, 08:48 PM

SO what has happened to the delta variant, where did it go is the question in my mind ?

**Garbowski** · 12-17-2021, 10:02 PM

I can't seem to find any data on the number of cases/hospitalizations/deaths for Omicron in vaccinated vs unvaccinated, other than the day it first hit and it was like 40 people and 75% of the positives were vaccinated. Surely by now there are tens of thousands of cases.

Delta variant is still here, it is just about to get outcompeted by Omicron and no longer be the dominant strain going around. Here's some good graphs, you can see how it is now the dominant strain in South Africa, but Delta is still there.

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https://yourlocalepidemiologist.subs...-update-dec-17

Strains hang around as long as they can find enough hosts. The original variant probably is still out there somewhere for a tiny fraction of a percent of new cases or so.

**LongShortLong** · 12-18-2021, 12:54 AM

Hospitalizations in omicron. "Wait a couple weeks." Trouble is it's early, and with a rapid case rise, it's tough to figure it out from the graphs. Somebody needs to carefully trace a cohort of infected people to see the outcomes. I notice quite a few experts are walking away from the early optimism. The phrasing is more along the lines of we don't have any data to support it's less virulent than delta. The limited available data is from South Africa (example), a young population where most recovered from an earlier Covid infection. My sources for this are TWiV and UCSF.