To Vaccinate or Not---The Rat Flu Odyssey Continues

[teletech]

I don’t think you need to be vaxxed to ski anywhere in the great USA. Freedom baby!!!!!!

[riser4]

https://www.wcax.com/2021/11/16/vt-c...id-infections/

[SumJongGuy]

These have got to be the same people who were opposed to banning indoor smoking. Their right to do whatever the fuck they want is definitely more important than anyone else's health.

I've been saying similar.. And that everyplace where smoking is banned, masks should be required for the same reasons.. public poison breath hazard potential.

[Kinnikinnick]

I am shocked at the number of people in this thread in favor of shunning those from society (and the ski hill) who choose not to be vaccinated. Really didn't expect that.

Can you imagine? Consequences for parasitic freeloading anti social behavior!!! How dare they!!


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[supermodel159]

You guys following what’s going on in Taiwan?

https://www.taiwannews.com.tw/en/news/4347116

[summit]

You guys following what’s going on in Taiwan?

https://www.taiwannews.com.tw/en/news/4347116

A cancer patient sadly died following abdominal surgery. Coincidentally they recently had a vaccination. Another person had a complication that may or may not be linked to the vaccine. Seriously, why is this news? Should we raise our eyebrows every time 100 people die in car wrecks or 1500 people die of COVID? Oh wait... that was yesterday in the USA.

[concretejungle]

You guys following what’s going on in Taiwan?

https://www.taiwannews.com.tw/en/news/4347116

Nope.

[dunfree]

194 million fully vaxxed people in the us to date, if it’s so horrible shouldn’t we be seeing it here?

[jono]

A cancer patient sadly died following abdominal surgery. Coincidentally they recently had a vaccination. Another person had a complication that may or may not be linked to the vaccine. Seriously, why is this news?

Given the writing in the article the news is that China's FUD campaign has extended into Taiwan. Which makes sense, of course, but this is from the same paper that falsely reported Chinese live cremations of COVID patients earlier on. Interesting turn in that respect.

[Adolf Allerbush]

100 people die in car wrecks...

See, the vaccine doesn't work for shit!

[twat]

Novavax applied for em certification in the eu.
Whats the deal in the us.

[Percy Rideout]

There is ZERO basis for fertility concerns.

Long term complications or death from Covid on the otherhand....

This is off base because we just...Don't know yet. I'm not saying these vaccines are bad, but we just don't have any data on a longitudinal study for this Novel virus + new mRNA vaccine.

RE: ZERO basis for fertility concerns? Were you hanging around any women from Feb 2020-June 2020? Post vaccination many experienced missed periods, cycle changes, heavy bleeding, and spotting. This threw up a few red flags for women of childbearing age, and/or hoping to conceive.

Here, let the ladies chime in and tell you themselves.

https://www.reddit.com/r/AskWomenOve...changes_after/

[KQ]

This is off base because we just...Don't know yet. I'm not saying these vaccines are bad, but we just don't have any data on a longitudinal study for this Novel virus + new mRNA vaccine.

RE: ZERO basis for fertility concerns? Were you hanging around any women from Feb 2020-June 2020? Post vaccination many experienced missed periods, cycle changes, heavy bleeding, and spotting. This threw up a few red flags for women of childbearing age, and/or hoping to conceive.

Here, let the ladies chime in and tell you themselves.

https://www.reddit.com/r/AskWomenOve...changes_after/

As a lady who has experienced these things I can tell you all of those things can and do happen for any number of reasons that cannot be pinpointed or explained.

Simply being stressed out can do it. Being around other women can change your cycle. Changing your diet, the weather, supplements, exercising, falling in love can change your cycle.

[summit]

Asspen
1. Thinks the plural of anecdote is data
2. Knows as much about women's health as his avatar

[Percy Rideout]

As a lady who has experienced these things I can tell you all of those things can and do happen for any number of reasons that cannot be pinpointed or explained.

Simply being stressed out can do it. Being around other women can change your cycle. Changing your diet, the weather, supplements, exercising, falling in love can change your cycle.

Agreed that other factors you listed contribute, but these women writing in all have one thing in common: They all received the vaccine 2-4 weeks before symptoms started.

[wooley12]

Oh My God!!!

Aspen. Why do I peek at your inane posts?

[funkendrenchman]

Must have missed that Reddit thread.

[KQ]

Q: who here thinks because that cat is sitting there they must have caused the roof collapse?

[Art Shirk]

This is off base because we just...Don't know yet. I'm not saying these vaccines are bad, but we just don't have any data on a longitudinal study for this Novel virus + new mRNA vaccine.

RE: ZERO basis for fertility concerns? Were you hanging around any women from Feb 2020-June 2020? Post vaccination many experienced missed periods, cycle changes, heavy bleeding, and spotting. This threw up a few red flags for women of childbearing age, and/or hoping to conceive.

Here, let the ladies chime in and tell you themselves.

https://www.reddit.com/r/AskWomenOve...changes_after/

I'm going to try to be kind but its difficult when "thinking" like this is proposed. The logical missteps, masquerading as curious concern, are literally the reason there is so much misinformation that gets fed into the meme machine to be reabsorbed by the anti-vax crowd responsible for continued death and disruption in our society. Old Goat took a stab at the ridiculousness of this line of reasoning when he said "and we dont know if you will grow a second head in 5 years." The only difference between the hypothetical that Old Goat created and yours is that you have some anecdotes that are (1) only anecdotes, (2) dont establish causation, (3) even if they did, are those affected statistically significant (hint: some people are allergic to tylenol but we dont take it off the market for people with a headache). So, whats the difference between you saying we dont know if the vax will cause fertility issues as some other kook saying we don't know if the vax will cause colorblindness, or spontaneous combustion, or literally fucking anything? Not to mention, I bet I could find someone to tell you that the vax causes a second head.

If your standard for a "basis" of concern is that someone on the internet said something, its no wonder you are so confused. It's even more baffling when you realize that their are people with actual degrees on the internet providing counterpoints, but instead you quote reddit stories. I suggest you head over to r/thathappened and strap in.

But hey, we dont have any long term data on whether people combust after 5 years, so we should all be concerned! I'm equally concerned that my new 2022 Toyota is going to blow up because we don't have 5 years of data on the 2022 model, despite the fact that the 2022 model is built on the back on research that came before it.

I'd eat all of this if their was anything approaching a scientific study on the fertility issue. I'm not even saying the vax doesnt cause a fertility issue, I'm just saying you have not presented anything resembling a basis for concern.

Man, for rugged freedom lovers, you folks sure are scared of everything.

[jono]

Asspen, when you sit down to write these things up, do you have a list of fallacies that you plan to work in, or is the process more organic? It looks like wikipedia has updated their list pretty extensively, you might take a look and see if you can expand your repertoire beyond "cum hoc ergo propter hoc" and "argumentum ex silentio." I mean those are interesting and all, but why not use the whole palette?

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_fallacies

[SumJongGuy]

I

Man, for rugged freedom lovers, you folks sure are scared of everything.

I much prefer open discussion and trying to help the legitimately concerned and afraid. It's the folks who don't give a shit about anyone or anything except burning it all down because they're pissed their guy lost that I have ZERO patience for. This cold civil war shit has to end and those who threaten legislators and healthcare workers (and especially the legislators who cover for them) need to be sent to GTMO..

Back to the truly concerned.. how can we BETTER communicate the soundness of the science and pharmacology so they can be convinced this isn't a threat to fertility?

[Percy Rideout]

I'm going to try to be kind but its difficult when "thinking" like this is proposed. The logical missteps, masquerading as curious concern, are literally the reason there is so much misinformation that gets fed into the meme machine to be reabsorbed by the anti-vax crowd responsible for continued death and disruption in our society. Old Goat took a stab at the ridiculousness of this line of reasoning when he said "and we dont know if you will grow a second head in 5 years." The only difference between the hypothetical that Old Goat created and yours is that you have some anecdotes that are (1) only anecdotes, (2) dont establish causation, (3) even if they did, are those affected statistically significant (hint: some people are allergic to tylenol but we dont take it off the market for people with a headache). So, whats the difference between you saying we dont know if the vax will cause fertility issues as some other kook saying we don't know if the vax will cause colorblindness, or spontaneous combustion, or literally fucking anything? Not to mention, I bet I could find someone to tell you that the vax causes a second head.

If your standard for a "basis" of concern is that someone on the internet said something, its no wonder you are so confused. It's even more baffling when you realize that their are people with actual degrees on the internet providing counterpoints, but instead you quote reddit stories. I suggest you head over to r/thathappened and strap in.

But hey, we dont have any long term data on whether people combust after 5 years, so we should all be concerned! I'm equally concerned that my new 2022 Toyota is going to blow up because we don't have 5 years of data on the 2022 model, despite the fact that the 2022 model is built on the back on research that came before it.

I'd eat all of this if their was anything approaching a scientific study on the fertility issue. I'm not even saying the vax doesnt cause a fertility issue, I'm just saying you have not presented anything resembling a basis for concern.

Man, for rugged freedom lovers, you folks sure are scared of everything.

Art, appreciate the thoughtful response without the overt personal attacks seen here by some mouth breathers with keyboards that don't attempt to further the conversation.

We are only seeing anecdotes RE: menstrual changes because there isn't peer reviewed scientific data yet (Novel virus and all). The University of Illinois is currently mid study, but until the results are published and peer reviewed, all we have are anecdotes, over 140,000 reports so far (As of August 2021) with affected menstrual cycles going into the study according to this NPR article.

https://www.npr.org/sections/health-...cycle-research

People on here making bold claims about the COVID vaccine efficacy and pontificating about zero long term risks. These are anecdotes as well because there is a lack of peer reviewed data to support their argument. Same bold users made the same bold claims after the vaccine first rolled out an we thought this was over. Hint: they were wrong and here we are ready for a boost every 6 months for eternity.

The medical professionals don't make these blanket statements because scientifically we just don't know...yet. I thought we were trusting the science? The data isn't there yet because again....novel virus and all.

Anecdote pot, meet anecdote kettle.

[jono]

If I make up some fallacy bingo cards will you keep posting so we can play a couple rounds? Thanks for expanding out and attacking your imagined detractors with false accusations! Going compound really opens up more creative game play options.

[summit]

I'm going to try to be kind but its difficult when "thinking" like this is proposed. The logical missteps, masquerading as curious concern, are literally the reason there is so much misinformation that gets fed into the meme machine to be reabsorbed by the anti-vax crowd responsible for continued death and disruption in our society. Old Goat took a stab at the ridiculousness of this line of reasoning when he said "and we dont know if you will grow a second head in 5 years." The only difference between the hypothetical that Old Goat created and yours is that you have some anecdotes that are (1) only anecdotes, (2) dont establish causation, (3) even if they did, are those affected statistically significant (hint: some people are allergic to tylenol but we dont take it off the market for people with a headache). So, whats the difference between you saying we dont know if the vax will cause fertility issues as some other kook saying we don't know if the vax will cause colorblindness, or spontaneous combustion, or literally fucking anything? Not to mention, I bet I could find someone to tell you that the vax causes a second head.

If your standard for a "basis" of concern is that someone on the internet said something, its no wonder you are so confused. It's even more baffling when you realize that their are people with actual degrees on the internet providing counterpoints, but instead you quote reddit stories. I suggest you head over to r/thathappened and strap in.

But hey, we dont have any long term data on whether people combust after 5 years, so we should all be concerned! I'm equally concerned that my new 2022 Toyota is going to blow up because we don't have 5 years of data on the 2022 model, despite the fact that the 2022 model is built on the back on research that came before it.

I'd eat all of this if their was anything approaching a scientific study on the fertility issue. I'm not even saying the vax doesnt cause a fertility issue, I'm just saying you have not presented anything resembling a basis for concern.

Man, for rugged freedom lovers, you folks sure are scared of everything.

Post of the Week!

[Kinnikinnick]

Pregnancy is high risk for covid

If already or possibly getting pregnant
https://www.scientificamerican.com/a...s-deadly-toll/





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