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  1. #4176
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    The wife of a friend convinced her 8 y o daughter that the kid was allergic to the grass on my lawn.
    A few people feel the rain. Most people just get wet.

  2. #4177
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kevo View Post
    Just got Pfizer round 2 here in Teton Valley Idaho.

    Seems like we are running out of people who want to be vaccinated here locally. There were way less people this time around.

    This article may explain why- https://www.vanityfair.com/news/2021...-herd-immunity
    There's one man who could fix that.

    You wonder if, a few years down the line, he'll be holding super spreader rally events. Darwin sniggers.

    The world is perfect. Appreciate the details.

  3. #4178
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mofro261 View Post
    https://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/covid-1...ugh-cases.html


    • As of April 13, 2021, more than 75 million people in the United States had been fully vaccinated against COVID-19 since December 14, 2020.
    • During the same time, CDC received 5,814 reports of vaccine breakthrough infections from 43 U.S. states and territories.
    • Vaccine breakthrough infections were reported among people of all ages eligible for vaccination.
      • 2,622 (45%) of the reported infections were among people ≥60 years of age.

    • 3,752 (65%) of the people experiencing a breakthrough infection were female.
    • 1,695 (29%) of the vaccine breakthrough infections were reported as asymptomatic.
    • 396 (7%) people with breakthrough infections were known to be hospitalized and 74 (1%) died.
      • Of the 396 hospitalized patients, 133 (34%) were reported as asymptomatic or hospitalized for a reason not related to COVID-19.
      • Of the 74 fatal cases, 9 (12%) were reported as asymptomatic or the patient died due to a cause not related to COVID-19.
      • Hospitalizations and deaths that are not a direct result of COVID-19 are still considered vaccine breakthrough cases if the person was fully vaccinated and subsequently tested positive for COVID-19.
    I wish that somebody would say that, within a sample group of 75 million people, most pretty old, that you will always have deaths within a certain period. C'mon man.

    The world is perfect. Appreciate the details.

  4. #4179
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    Quote Originally Posted by huckbucket View Post
    CDC officially tracking roughly 6000 breakthrough cases where vaccinated individuals became positive outside of the 2-week post second shot window. CDC recognize that 6000 is likely inaccurate (low). Of those 6000, about 29% of those experienced no symptoms, while 7% were hospitalized and 74 people died. That's a 1% death rate although the breakthrough data was not delineated by age so that we can understand whether 1% is higher or lower than historical, non-vaccinated controls. Furthermore, breakthrough may represent cases of higher overall inoculum (initial exposure) which may therefore bias the outcome regardless of vaccination status.

    https://www.npr.org/sections/health-...lly-protective
    From this morning's news:

    Only 2 'breakthrough' infections among hundreds of fully vaccinated people, new study finds
    When you see something that is not right, not just, not fair, you have a moral obligation to say something. To do something." Rep. John Lewis


    Kindness is a bridge between all people

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  5. #4180
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    Yeah I was amazed at the lack of people getting stuck this morning. There were only 3 people in there (other than my wife and I) and there are 10 shot spots. There was also nobody else coming in, for the 15 minutes we were in there only 2 people came in. Unless there's a dramatic shift in thinking I'm pretty sure my county will stay under 50% vaxed. The one bright spot was a guy in a maga hat came in as we were leaving.

    3 hours since and damn my arm is sore. This time it's not where the jab was which is weird.

  6. #4181
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    Got Pfizer round 2 yesterday morning. Felt a little off in the afternoon, some Advil made me feel better. Arm soreness increased going into the night, but I woke up this morning with no fever thankfully. I'm hoping that good luck lasts. Just a little flu-like body soreness and arm soreness (less than with the 1st shot) right now.

  7. #4182
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mofro261 View Post
    https://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/covid-1...ugh-cases.html


    • As of April 13, 2021, more than 75 million people in the United States had been fully vaccinated against COVID-19 since December 14, 2020.
    • During the same time, CDC received 5,814 reports of vaccine breakthrough infections from 43 U.S. states and territories.
    • Vaccine breakthrough infections were reported among people of all ages eligible for vaccination.
      • 2,622 (45%) of the reported infections were among people ≥60 years of age.

    • 3,752 (65%) of the people experiencing a breakthrough infection were female.
    • 1,695 (29%) of the vaccine breakthrough infections were reported as asymptomatic.
    • 396 (7%) people with breakthrough infections were known to be hospitalized and 74 (1%) died.
      • Of the 396 hospitalized patients, 133 (34%) were reported as asymptomatic or hospitalized for a reason not related to COVID-19.
      • Of the 74 fatal cases, 9 (12%) were reported as asymptomatic or the patient died due to a cause not related to COVID-19.
      • Hospitalizations and deaths that are not a direct result of COVID-19 are still considered vaccine breakthrough cases if the person was fully vaccinated and subsequently tested positive for COVID-19.
    Subtracting the patients that died of something other than Covid 19, the case fatality rate among the 5800 is 1%. Given that fatal cases of cases of Covid are much much more likely to be tested than asymptomatic cases and much much more likely to be reported to the CDC, we can assume that the incidence of breakthrough infection is higher than the 5814 cases and that the fatality rate is lower than 1%.

    We need to keep in mind that the goal of vaccination is to make the chance of becoming infected and the chance of getting seriously ill or dying both low enough to allow the abandonment of behavioral measures like masking, distancing, and business and activity restrictions. (Hopefully, some precautions will become permanent--staying home when you are sick with an expansion of sick leave, masking if unable to stay home. For the last several months the incidence of influenza has been essentially zero. Nothing wrong with making that permanent.)

  8. #4183
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    Quote Originally Posted by Benny Profane View Post
    I wish that somebody would say that, within a sample group of 75 million people, most pretty old, that you will always have deaths within a certain period. C'mon man.
    Says it right there in Mofro's post;

    Of the 74 fatal cases, 9 (12%) were reported as asymptomatic or the patient died due to a cause not related to COVID-19.

    4 month of tracking people aged 16 and older (45% were ≥60) and 0.15% died (9 out of 5814).

  9. #4184
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ted Striker View Post
    Without an actual positive test, I'm calling bullshit on most covid stories.
    I had a bad cold in 2018. Probably would test positive if I felt like getting a test but they aren't letting me.

  10. #4185
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mofro261 View Post
    https://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/covid-1...ugh-cases.html


    • As of April 13, 2021, more than 75 million people in the United States had been fully vaccinated against COVID-19 since December 14, 2020.
    • During the same time, CDC received 5,814 reports of vaccine breakthrough infections from 43 U.S. states and territories.
    Interesting stats. The number we really need to see is how many we would expect to see get infected without a vaccine. It's not a straightforward calculation for a few reasons. One, we have to eliminate the vaccinated from the total number infected over that time span. And two, those 75 million vaccinated were vaccinated over the course of several months. Some of them have had a few months for the breakthrough to occur, some have had days.

    Another thing to keep in mind is a fair number of these "breakthroughs" probably were infected before or just after getting the shot. My assumption is that if you got a shot and tested positive anytime after the shot, you are counted as a breakthrough.

  11. #4186
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bunion 2020 View Post
    It was my understanding that the point of vaccination was to reduce the spread and lessen the virulence of the actual disease. If everyone got da Covid as CS claims and no one got very sick it sounds like it is working
    My understanding as well, your odds of getting real sick/dying are wicked low. Hence the reason going for herd immunity without a vax is a fucking stupid strategy.

  12. #4187
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    Quote Originally Posted by old goat View Post
    Subtracting the patients that died of something other than Covid 19, the case fatality rate among the 5800 is 1%. Given that fatal cases of cases of Covid are much much more likely to be tested than asymptomatic cases and much much more likely to be reported to the CDC, we can assume that the incidence of breakthrough infection is higher than the 5814 cases and that the fatality rate is lower than 1%.

    We need to keep in mind that the goal of vaccination is to make the chance of becoming infected and the chance of getting seriously ill or dying both low enough to allow the abandonment of behavioral measures like masking, distancing, and business and activity restrictions. (Hopefully, some precautions will become permanent--staying home when you are sick with an expansion of sick leave, masking if unable to stay home. For the last several months the incidence of influenza has been essentially zero. Nothing wrong with making that permanent.)
    I also hope that it becomes socially acceptable to mask up and/or stay home while sick. Maybe we could even legislate a national sick leave policy. Most "essential" employees have historically been forced to work while sick.

    Between work travel and working in an open office, I was getting sick at least once a month for years pre covid. There were so many times that sick coworkers came to the office and I was stuck in meetings in conference rooms with people with pretty serious cold/flu like symptoms. I haven't been sick now in more than a year.

    What are your thoughts on the idea that the vaccines could pressure the virus to evolve into more virulent or deadly strains because of the breakthrough cases?

  13. #4188
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    Quote Originally Posted by The AD View Post
    My assumption is that if you got a shot and tested positive anytime after the shot, you are counted as a breakthrough.
    I might be pulling this out of my ass, but I think I've read that it was a positive test 14 days from the second shot.

  14. #4189
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    Quote Originally Posted by abraham View Post
    I had a bad cold in 2018. Probably would test positive if I felt like getting a test but they aren't letting me.
    I was told "I'm sure I've had it". So I asked what their symptoms were. "None"

    The scary part: they have the letters Dr in front of their name.

  15. #4190
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    So without getting into the real nitty-gritty math details, there have been something like 12 million new COVID-19 cases reported in the U.S. since the beginning of the year. Of those vaccinated, there have been about 6,000 cases reported from vaccinated individuals, or 0.05% of the total. That's impressive.

  16. #4191
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ted Striker View Post
    I might be pulling this out of my ass, but I think I've read that it was a positive test 14 days from the second shot.
    This is correct.

  17. #4192
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    Quote Originally Posted by old goat View Post
    Do you have a source for the claim that covid vaccine or any other vaccine could lead to a flare up of shingles, other than the Israeli report of 5 immunocompromised women with autoimmune disorders?
    Good question - I should have been more clear that this was opinion/speculation and was formed from combination of the Israeli report and anecdotal evidence unrelated to covid/covid vaccinations.

    The strongest risk factor for shingles is age - so many people are going to get shingles right after their shots.

    There is an association between trauma and shingles - I know a guy who got a steroid injection in his shoulder for a tendon problem and developed shingles going down that arm. Could be the trauma of the shot - could be the steroid. But either way that’s gotta be super rare.

    Cold sores and genital herpes flare ups are much more associated with periods of immune system “stress” (eg. fever - including fever brought on by vaccination) compared to shingles.

    But I’m just padded room spitballing with the hope of countering any “covid vaccinations gives you herpes” baloney. It might cause the herpes you already have to flare up though.

  18. #4193
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ted Striker View Post
    I was told "I'm sure I've had it". So I asked what their symptoms were. "None"

    The scary part: they have the letters Dr in front of their name.
    My anti-vaxxer neighbor who does not travel outside of W2 swears she had it in December 2019. According to her she was sooooooooooooo sick and because of that she knows it wasn't the flu. Funny thing is none of her family caught it. She won't get an antibody test because she doesn't want to give the libs ammo and become part of their lies but she knows it was the rona.
    When you see something that is not right, not just, not fair, you have a moral obligation to say something. To do something." Rep. John Lewis


    Kindness is a bridge between all people

    Dunkin’ Donuts Worker Dances With Customer Who Has Autism

  19. #4194
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    ^^ One of my ski buddies swears he had it, too. Never leaves Sandpoint but was probably exposed there, not sure. However, he never got tested and won't get the shot. I've tried to talk him into it but, nope, not doing it. And another who did have the virus (tested positive) who says he'll never get the shot; "They're not putting that shit into me, loaded with formaldehyde and mercury, no way!". The latter is just kind of dumb (lots of funny stories but, good guy, even though a solid Trump guy) so I don't try to convince him. Never gonna happen with him, for sure.

  20. #4195
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    Quote Originally Posted by MTT View Post
    This is an interesting question. My doctor wants me to get a shingles vaccine. But they won't give you the vaccine until 18 days after your second covid-19 19 shot.
    There is no accessable information I can find on the why of that rule.
    There's obviously some data/ concern related to this. But I guess we the masse's don't need to read about it.

    I think this is what pisses me off. My access to information being filtered.
    This is awesome. MTT has been transformed right here in this thread.

    2 month ago, in this thread, MTT said the reason he would not get get vaccinated was because Pfizer and Moderna were 2-shot vaccines, which he said had never been done before. Everyone piled on, pointing out correctly that many modern vaccines require 2-shots.

    So MTT has gone from being anti-vax to bitching that he isn’t being vaccinated enough. Hilarious to watch this drama queen in action.


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    "Hike up your skirt and grow a dick you fucking crybaby" -what Bunion said to Harry at the top of The Headwaters

  21. #4196
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kevo View Post
    What are your thoughts on the idea that the vaccines could pressure the virus to evolve into more virulent or deadly strains because of the breakthrough cases?
    It's a race--between the vaccine reducing transmission faster than the virus can mutate. The success of the great majority of vaccination programs other than for influenza shows that the vaccine usually wins the race. In any case, the weaker immunity produced by natural infection is far more likely to produce a super variant than vaccine immunity. We learned with TB that the cause of resistance was not treatment per se but inadequate treatment--which is why people can be forcibly treated if they don't comply. This is true for resistance of all kinds--the best way to prevent the emergence of resistance is to kick the shit out of bug from the start. It's not the 2 week course of antibiotics for an infections that produces resistance--it's the lower dose of antibiotic you eat with your steak--or more accurately, the sublethal concentrations of antibiotics floating around all over the place.

    I was reading a while back about the brilliant work done to alter the spike protein to stabilize it so that it could be used for vaccines. One thing the article said was that there were a limited number of mutations the spike protein could undergo before it would no longer function to attach to the host cell receptor. Mutations don't just affect the business end of the molecule in a way that could prevent it from attaching, but also can alter the shape of the molecule so that the business end is buried, making it useless. I hope that is true. Sorry I can't cite the source.

    (Xray crystallography--the same technique the rarely credited Rosalind Franklin used to show the double helix shape of DNA--used to show the shape of the spike protein is totally beyond my comprehension. How someone can deduce the shape of a complicated molecule from the pictures of xray crystallography I've seen boggles my mind.)

    Quote Originally Posted by Ted Striker View Post
    I was told "I'm sure I've had it". So I asked what their symptoms were. "None"

    The scary part: they have the letters Dr in front of their name.
    English professor? Or like my nephew--a PhD in comparative literature/graphic novels.

  22. #4197
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    Quote Originally Posted by KQ View Post
    I've got a question: What exactly is supposed to happen to me when the vax changes my DNA?

    (yes I know that our DNA changes during our life as we age)
    I've been away from TGR for a month or two and am really out of the loop, so if this is a bit or a joke or something, I'm sorry, I didn't know.

    But, in general, your DNA doesn't change as you age; not meaningfully anyway. How much protein is made from different genes may go up and down throughout our lives (epigenetics), and mutations certainly occur in some cells (sometimes beneficial, sometimes neutral, often culminating in cell death, loss of function, or cancer), and the ends of our chromosomes get shorter and shorter every time cells divide (telomeres). But, in general, your DNA is the same when you are fertilized egg as it is when you are a corpse.

    And the mRNA vaccines don't alter your DNA in any way. Your DNA is the recipe book for everything your cells produce (mostly proteins). Your mRNA is just Xerox copies of individual pages from that recipe book the cell uses to make each protein. The mRNA vaccine is just a sheet of paper that looks like a Xerox copy recipe. The recipe book is unchanged.
    Quote Originally Posted by digitaldeath View Post
    Here’s the dumbest person on tgr
    "What are you trying to say? I'm crazy? When I went to your ski schools, I went on your church trips, I went to your alpine race-training facilities? So how can you say I'm crazy?!"

  23. #4198
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    Quote Originally Posted by KQ View Post
    My anti-vaxxer neighbor who does not travel outside of W2 swears she had it in December 2019. According to her she was sooooooooooooo sick and because of that she knows it wasn't the flu. Funny thing is none of her family caught it. She won't get an antibody test because she doesn't want to give the libs ammo and become part of their lies but she knows it was the rona.
    Quote Originally Posted by GoldMember View Post
    ^^ One of my ski buddies swears he had it, too. Never leaves Sandpoint but was probably exposed there, not sure. However, he never got tested and won't get the shot.
    That was just my most egregious example. I've lost count of how many times I've heard it.

    IMO, it's mostly wishful thinking. The 'I don't want to do anything so I invented a way not to' crowd.

  24. #4199
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    Quote Originally Posted by CS2-6 View Post
    I've been away from TGR for a month or two and am really out of the loop, so if this is a bit or a joke or something, I'm sorry, I didn't know.

    But, in general, your DNA doesn't change as you age; not meaningfully anyway. How much protein is made from different genes may go up and down throughout our lives (epigenetics), and mutations certainly occur in some cells (sometimes beneficial, sometimes neutral, often culminating in cell death, loss of function, or cancer), and the ends of our chromosomes get shorter and shorter every time cells divide (telomeres). But, in general, your DNA is the same when you are fertilized egg as it is when you are a corpse.

    And the mRNA vaccines don't alter your DNA in any way. Your DNA is the recipe book for everything your cells produce (mostly proteins). Your mRNA is just Xerox copies of individual pages from that recipe book the cell uses to make each protein. The mRNA vaccine is just a sheet of paper that looks like a Xerox copy recipe. The recipe book is unchanged.
    Was a joke - a jab at anti-vaxxers who claim the vac will alter your DNA. I was hoping someone might say I'd grow a monkey tail or maybe a platypus venom gland.
    When you see something that is not right, not just, not fair, you have a moral obligation to say something. To do something." Rep. John Lewis


    Kindness is a bridge between all people

    Dunkin’ Donuts Worker Dances With Customer Who Has Autism

  25. #4200
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    I really like the new CDC director

    https://youtu.be/0ie4x8hWYYE My Great Aunt gave me herpes?

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